Fuck YOU, Bogard!


#1

Okay, SBZ never posts new threads (much), so this is a first (third). After I’ve taught my student, properly named Ultra Ky, all that GGXX has to offer. He has grown attached to Ky and basically mastered him, but he has recently began to pick up a noticeable and most annoying tactic, as well as piss poor strategy ideas (though I can say he has the skill to back it up, somewhat).

Recently, I’ve found Sol to be cannon fodder to Ky offensively. All of Ky’s attacks have more priority, Ky normally wins a poke contest, Sol has absolutely nothing he can do to Ky at a distance while Ky can do the most simplistic to Sol, Ky can… (duck???) most of instant air dash attacks into crouching hardslash, and everything Sol does leaves him open, especially for a counter hit at all times while performing a move, while Ky’s… just doesn’t unless in mid execution. A runaway turtler Johnny is also a bastard to Sol (you’re such a retard Daisuke - Giving the same character the fastest low hitting move in the game and an entirely invincible uppercut, what the fuck am I supposed to do here?) but that’s for another time.

Well, the tactics he has picked up, I’ve noticed have shifted over from another game. Anyone who’s ever been to my site (who the fuck goes there?:lol: LOL ) or the Gamer’s Guild knows about my mad glossary of fighting game terms. In this case, that of the dreaded “Bogarder”.

Bogarder:

n.

1.) One that uses high priority moves in order to cover his ass from the execution of the last one.

2.) A person who throws out random abuseable moves.

Well, obviously you know now that the guy uses this bullshit strategy against me - even though I’ve taught him better ways to win with Ky (as I can prove it, my Ky beats the living shit out of his, sometimes even perfects) but I can’t do a damned thing about it when I’m playing Sol. I take that back, there is one thing, though I really don’t like to do it - turtle like a bitch. God, I never thought such crap could exist in GG games… Other than the setups I’ve taught him, he seems to prefer using Terry Bogard strats better: Random greed sever from half a ways cross the screen or stundipper (fucking guessing games I swear I don’t feel like getting into); when I’m backed into a corner, he would step back a bit and throw out random standing hardslashes which will stop ANYTHING Sol does, while giving him just enough recovery time to block a grand viper (not that that move is worth anything anyway), even if I time it for when he does the shit… oh and jumping is out of the question. When asked why he does this garbage of a strategy, he says, “It looks cool”. Normally, I’d take this as an opportunity to mock me, but after so much evidence I’ve seen from the way he plays (Greed sever loop, why?), I’ve come to realize that THIS IS ACTUALLY TRUTHFULLY WHY HE DOES IT. He doesn’t do this just to Sol because he thinks he can get away with it, he does it to ALL of my characters (sometimes winning, sometimes not), but it agrivates me that he thinks that that’s exceptable for one of my students… ungreatful basturd.

Alright, to get to the fucking point already:

Which type of player would you rather lose to (assuming you had to lose):

A.) A skillful player who uses observations, precise calculations, setups, and intelligent tactics to outsmart his opponents.

or

B.) A guy who only knows how abuseable his moves are, and throws them out at random times, situations, and events.


#2

Because of the otherwise obvious fact that Ky is low tier, I dont use him for heated competition unless its to counter a char. But he has been my main character from the beggining- and without question, Sol out prioritizes everything Ky has at his disposal. Seriously, there is NEVER any instance where Ky even has a chance of winning the priority war against him. It sounds to me like your problem is that you dont know how to properly rush down with Sol and likewise, you arent punishing moves properly. His ranged pokes are really his only true edge in the match and that can be toned and controlled by proper zoning with slash, f+p, c.dust, f or neutral hard slash and gun flames. Greed Sever unless from max range or rc’ed is extreamly punishable. Learn to block it on reaction, its slow- and unless he has been making you guess on high/low consistantly with good mix up you should be able to see it coming, IB it and use your choice of combos. Try to ground him every time you punish him, Ky has no reliable wake up game. FRC Gun Flame him on wake up and he has no choice but to block it or be counter hit and put in a dust loop. Understand exactly what Ky has at his disposal when he begins his mix up. If he doesnt have level he cant do anything but end his strings with a projectile or jump cancle into something to cover himself. Most times you can safely block low and stand on reaction when you see his dust animation or greed sever coming- and again, punish it. Unless the kick hits from maximum range or counter hit, stun dipper is not a true combo. Block the first part and punish him; if the second part hits you its more difficult to retaliate, but its still possible. If he has level in both these cases )dipper or sever) be more cautious, he might be bating you. Especially if you have a noticable block pattern. Ky’s c.hs is slow, if he instinctively uses it every time you jump, bait it. Or fdc to low jump into a hs, it will usually beat it. There are more ways that Sol can completely deface Ky in this match up honestly, but its not in my best interest to explain it. Because I dont like the priority whore.

Actually, me and BoF argued this one out a while ago about 6 months ago, do some digging. I seriously dont like Sol, but he beats Ky pretty easily, especially if the Ky is as random as you say. You just need to pay more attention to what you are doing and learn to punish mistakes better. Every time he random stun dippers you should make him pay with half a life bar or more. Seriously.


#3

i pretty agree with prowess,sol has always the priority in all moves exept perhaps in the air where ky’s k is nice.your friend play like me exept i use mere the dust than the greed saver cause it’s faster,and damage is worst.you have to learn to block.my best friends take so much hit with that now they start to block properly.

and really it’s the best strat to play ky and i don’t think it’s a bitch strat,ky have to play like that.
Quote that in ggxx,sol sucks he’s the easiest char to play and get all priorities even a medium player can makes me have hard time cause of that fact…

if i take your language,i prefer lose aginst a good zappa or eddie well played(get a friend who is a beast with them) than with a sol who gets all priorities especially the vv…lol…


#4

Something else you might want to consider. If its seriously fucking with your head… is it really all random?

I personally never play Ky on auto pilot, too many of his moves are punishable. But I definately will screw you if you dont know how to block high low. Aside from some tricks with block stun and throw game, Ky IS high low and pokes. Period. I dont agree with covering yourself with specials, because thats extreamly punishable ( you should learn to capitoloze on that by the way). Also if you havent mastered Ky’s impossible dust combos etc (they are alot harder in XX then in #reload) then the greed sever loop is your best friend.

Love watching people have a damn hissy fit when they get hit with the invisible hit box from max range and put in the loop. Hella funny. Good thing to do- do about 3 loops, and instead of letting them fall or flip regularly, poke them with standing punch. Watch them flip and instinctively block fearing another sever and air throw them back into the corner- make them wake up into f+hs. :stuck_out_tongue: Gotta love the Kiske man… lol


#5

Thanx0r for the strat guyz, but I’m not sure they’ll work. I am beginning to think that my execution of moves have been sluggish, so I’m going to take up practicing again (I have stopped for a long time). Besides that, I think I’m being to impatient with the game… But seriously, thanx again guys.


#6

1 what do you mean by auto pilot?
2 i’m not sure to understand but i often use the charge stun edge then run to attack or jump k if i suppose they’ll jump
as for the greed sever i’m pretty sure the most basic dust combo makes more damage than the qcb k loop.and yep i play in ggxx and YES i practice actually the impossible dusts AND THEY’RE VERY HARD TO GET DOWN…get a lot of work to get them…sigh
3 yep i pretty agree
4 ky is exellent to play with:) …lol

in my opinion the f+k,s is exellent to keep pressure and lol it increase the guard a lot…:cool: more than that it permits to devellop a lot of strats…like push a dust or a duck k,then combo or a run throw…ky and all ggxx char generally must be played like bitches…gniark,gniark.


#7

Auto pilot is a term I got from BoF. Usually means, when people do moves in repetition without thinking about them so much that its a habit. Basically, what he described. Not really thinking in debth about what you are doing, just hibitually doing specials to cover yourself after a basic string. Like, a Ky who will only rush you down with 1 or 2 strings, and the only thing that changes is the special at the end. Sort of a brainless strategist who is only thinking about attacking you and hoping you mess up and get hit.

Charge stun edge is good, but only if its from a good distance away or you are making them wake up into it. That way you dont risk them hopping over it and smacking Ky around while he is still recovering.

The dust combos are a hell of alot more damaging. The dust also comes out alot faster than the sever, but some people cannot do the dusts properly. So the sever loop is still good damage. In any case, you should be using both to mix up.

Yeah, f+k is excellent, just dont abuse it. I am sure its punishable by everyone on the game, its just alot easier for some (ala sol, I really do hate this bitch)…


#8

yep i mainly use 236hs as wake up game BUT sol badguy(strange,isn’t it) can pass it with the vv grrrumbl

as for dust it’s true i learn them recently but that’s indispensable for a ky player in my opinion the s,s,s,p,s,p,s,jc,s,hs,dp is easy to master,finally more than the greed loop.and yep i agree it’s necessary to mix up with the greed.

as for the f+k well i use it a lot and well no problem as for now…exept when you miss the timing a lot and the slash is too much early,you’re defensless.really that’s hard to support for the opponent to support to stand in guard so long especially if you finish by a slide frc and start again…

in terms of meaty attacks do you often use the air dust?i’d like to use it more but i’m very often too much far from my opponent to put ot properly!!

can’t stand sol anymore(i played him a lot when i started)

yes and for sol badguy z (maybe you knew it before)a good sol combo i get was gun flame frc,b.bringer,gun flame frc,b.bringer… until you’re in the corner and then start a dust loop… doesn’t work with everyone but works with a lot of char…
just if you do it 4 times and add a loop were something like 320 damages against sol…


#9

when you knockdown w/ Ky either use charge stun edge or 6H.


#10

Once you have trained an opponent to wake up into [f+hs>(mix up)] you can JC into a low placed j.d. From here you can do one of sevral things. You can back dash and throw a projectile. You can jc over them and hit them on the other side with hs on your way down. You can jc and hit them with hs on your way down normally. Or you can do another j.d and land. If you do another dust, you can immediately start high low/throw games on your landing because they will still be in block stun. If you feel they will block, do a very short dash into c.p~walk forward and throw. If you see them ducking, or think they will, do a standing dust immediately or after a slash or two so its not telographed. If you see or think they will stand and block, punish with close [c.d>dp+hs~RC>j.d~dp+hs] the timing on the dust is tricky, practice untill you can combo it properly. It will make people think twice about stand blocking instinctively. You can also do a hs to put them in another block stun for similar follow ups, ot do any standard high low chain/mix up you prefer depending on how much level you have or want to spend on it. In all cases however, if they attempt to jump and are hit with you jumping dust, land and do Kys b&b air combo. Unfortunately, as with most wake up games, this does not work under any cercumstances against sol unless the player is a moron. He can VV through anything… hate that bitch.


#11

yep i know there’s a lot of possibilities after the air dust and what i prefer is to jump cancel to pass behind the opponent and make an hs but the problem is to put the cross with a good timing.exept after the trow,the opponent is too much far from you(i mean they can hit me before the cross appears) and well charge stun edge is the only way.but the air dust is more stategic.
i didn’t thought to the 6hs then air d so well i’ll try this one.lol.
and well yes i get all timing in the air exept i know it’s possible to make two air fireball in the same jump and i’d like to get it but,really it’s not easysigh

as for sol yes he’s abusive,and very easy to play what does a sol player be able to do?
gun flame frc(quote it’s the easiest frc of the game)and dust corner loop and…that’s all.waahhh what a strategie!!!

ky is not the hardest char to get but frc the charge stun edge is pretty hard the slide isn’t easy too.i just think a sol player deserve no value to be exellent but it’s only my opinion.lol.it’s the same with ex-ky i like this char but he’s so easy to play that finally i don’t play him anymore…

mmm just want to quote i like too to frc the sacred edge to a dust combo that’s fun.

and well the air charge stun edge (with the frc bug) is pretty exellent cause the opponent usually jump when he sees you prepare the fireball so well he often takes it and i can run or air dash to continue the combo…