Future of 2D fighting games

:lovin: yes. hnk2 will rape everything. Broken or unbroken otherwise. but wont get a lick of play in the u.s…or so i assume.

I think the future is with online doujin fighters made by people who know fighting games. Why?

  1. Balancing is easier (than arcade, console) with patching
  2. With good netplay (e.g. GGPO) you have solid competition.
  3. Riskier ventures - theoretically doujin circles could take huge risks (nothing to lose, everything to gain). This could lead to more innovation.

Still the same problems exist:

  1. Patches that don’t fix the core problem (e.g. Melty blood)
  2. Netplay is still pretty shitty (outside of GGPO).
  3. Novel ideas don’t mean much when people refuse to play your shit (e.g. furry stuff, loli pixies, wtf).

My comments from here apply to this thread as well:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4172234&postcount=15

This is the current market trend, and it will stay that way until we go through a market crash and rebirth and start the whole cycle again. And that in itself could be a long time away, or never.

don’t forget Odin Sphere. damn i surprised when that came out on the ps2. (i thought sony didn’t allow 2D any more)

anyway its freakin amazing to look at. :wow:

if only there were a fighter coming out that looked that good :amazed:

Haha, I hear ya. Last I herd Disgaea 3 was headed to the PS3.:wink:

It’s not that black and white.

There’s Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA), Japan (SCEJ) and Europe (who also control PAL territories like Australia - SCEE).

SCEA wanted to throw their weight around and stop production of new 2D games (not including retro-rebundles, but only if they are released as budget titles). The reason was that they wanted to appear like a company totally dedicated to next-gen, and according to the average American gamer (apparently) “2D is dead”.

SCEJ know that “2D is dead” is bullshit. Japanese gamers aren’t nearly as big on graphics-whoring as most westerners, and likewise Japanese game designers know 2D games can be just as much fun, as well as much cheaper to develop for budget/small development and production houses.

(SCEE mind you have been pretty quiet through all of this, probably not wanting to piss off either their SCEA nor SCEJ “big brothers”).

SCEA tried to push for an SCEI (I = “International”) which could give them more power over worldwide releases, and particularly more say in what happens on the SCEJ front. So far, not much has happened on this front, nor do I see it happening any time soon, considering tastes in American and Japanese gaming are quite literally worlds apart.

The whole thing started a few years back, pre-PS3. Now with the release of the PS3, things are different. Notably:

  1. Sony (in all forms - A, J and E) are happy to keep the PS2 as their budget/last-gen console, and allow 2D games to appear on it (both new games, as well as arcade remakes).

  2. The PS3 with it’s downloadable content will happily release arcade and/or 2D style titles to compete directly with Microsoft’s XBLA service.

  3. SCEA have stated quite plainly that the PS3 will not allow new disc-based releases of 2D games. All new, disc-based games released on the PS3 MUST be in 3D. To my knowledge, SCEJ have made no such requirement, but to be honest most game houses would look at the PS2 anyway to release a 2D game simply due to licensing and development kit costs.

So the whole thing is part retarded attempt at a power-play by SCEA, and part “mountains out of molehills” by the press. At one stage I was quite pissed off at the whole affair, but to be honest I haven’t bought myself an American-developed game in about 5 years now (my entire Sony games collection at the moment all have Play-Asia stickers on them), so it doesn’t affect me in the slightest.

So we should change our tastes to what developers give us? You’re missing the whole point of playing video games in the first place.

Fact: the 2d fighting game scene is only dead if you’re a closed minded capcom fan.

Simple: SNK, Sammy and all the other companies that have been neglected, over the years by the masses, will be brought to the forefront. Casual gamers will not be affected.

I think you’re missing the whole point of videos games; if you don’t like one game you can always go play different one. Just don’t blame the people who made the game you didn’t like because it isn’t tailor made to please you.

i guess that all makes sense then

now if only Atlus or NIS would get off their rear ends and bring SRW OGS over here

One of the biggest contributors of the problem in my opinion, is the current and heavily spoiled generation of gamers.

  1. Most are bigger trend whores than SRK complains the Japanese to be: “It’s popular to hate anime now, so I’ll hate Guilty Gear without even playing it lol!” “Udon is a weeaboo faggot and I won’t play the remake.” “G4 hates the game, so I won’t buy it.” “Only Tourneyfags play fighting games seriously.”

  2. Demand the further pussification of gaming so they have to put less effort into actually improving their skill, and companies give in to the demand. “I want to learn everything in five minutes.” “I suck at Fireball motions, so they suck and it should be one button.” “I’m losing so I quit.”

  3. Are seriously close minded to anything and are too judgmental on first glance, repeating 1.
    “This is gay that there’s more girls in this, I want manly men to fight with.” “It’s got an anime style, so it automatically sucks.”

Now not all of the current generation is like this of course, but it’s a large majority. Add to this that when a fighting game is released it’s hardly even advertised or even defends itself against the bullshit mentality against them, and we have our current problem of revitalizing the genre.

The future of 2D fighting games is in 3D fighting games (you better hope they fail)…

http://vgchartz.com/japyearly.php?page=4&year=2007

Actually, they’re not even much of a blip on Japanese consoles sales…HnK and GGAC both got under 50k this year, and won’t even get CLOSE to the top 100 in sales for Japan in '07.
Which isn’t TERRIBLE, but still not very good at all.

How did those games fair arcade revenue wise?

The thing that may still help fighting games is that they are much cheaper to make than say, an RPG. So you don’t need the big numbers a Final Fantasy would pull to make a profit. (Especially with the doujin fighters.)

Flamebait? Hey, I’ll bite.

The scene is not dead. Even if you play Capcom games, it is not dead, though it is arguably in worse shape than if you’re getting into the new guard. Nevertheless, any way you look at it, the situation is worsening–particularly for us Yanks.

As for SNK, the fact that Neo-Geo is the most unaffordable console of its day might have something to do with their difficulty in establishing a stronger foothold in America. SNES and Genesis ports of Street Fighter II’ CE/Hyper Fighting were a big part of the 2D fighting boom in the 90s. Neo-Geo ports of SNK’s games, not so much.

Oh yeah, and Capcom thinks your penis is laughably tiny.

So you think the developers at Sammy, when considering why Guilty Gear hasn’t caught on in America think “well fuck, it’s not our fault we didn’t make a product that appeals to the american fighting game consumer.” I doubt it. I’m sure they are pleased with how the game does in Japan, but looking at it from the perspective of a non japanese fighting game consumer, the game should be made to appeal to the consumer. It’s not like its freeware where it doesn’t make a difference to the developer if you play it or not. Would you say it’s not the developers fault if people don’t like how broken MKA is?

From the Casual POV.

Guilty Gear hasn’t made any noise as of yet. The only ones who knows Guilty Gear are the people who already are part of the fighting game community or those die hard anime fanboys.

If Capcom made a Street Fighter IV and market the hell out of it, I’m pretty sure it’ll beat all of the 2d fighting games sales.

I doubt it though.

I agree with the original poster. tis why i love street fighter games so much. especially 3rd strike, of course, I wish it was a little bit more balanced, but its still pretty good. i think its complexity level is just about perfect. its a game where noobs can play and just mash the buttons and the quarter circle motions and cool shit comes out. they may get a few hits here and there, but they will never beat the player who actually knows what theyre doing.

if capcom patched and updated 3s, i could go w/o sf4, but thats another discussion…

When they consider the fact that guilty gear has such a strong arcade presence in Japan, I think they’re pretty happy and consider their game a success. To Sammy the arcade market in Japan takes precedence over “non japanese fighting game consumer” so they probably do have something close to a “well fuck” although I’m sure its more of a “Well we can’t please everyone”. They’re not losing any sleep because American gamers think their game is too hard. And don’t be stupid, you know a broken game is different than a game that doesn’t play the way you want it to.