FYI for people that want rebalancing

vega

#1

So yeah, we need to flood ono’s twitter and CU for this shit.

edit: Link to CU thread for pestering devs with buff requests

and just in case the link dies

http://www.capcom-unity.com/ssf4strategy/go/thread/view/107989/28090469/Per_Onos_Request…_Recommended_balance_changes_for_SSF4:AE_discussion&post_num=1#504023113


Quitting this game
#2

the question is what is it that Vega needs? I can say a lot of things, in fact my suggestions would make him on the same level as Yun if not better. But I guess people don’t like stuff like that, since balance comes first.


#3

give him his old CH back
I-frames on ST or atleast EX ST
do something with SCH
fix ultra 1 so it wont wiff if the first part hits


#4

Delete Yun/Yang from game. Add Rolento + Alex.

Make Vega’s st. hp faster
faster start up on ex rcf
no super flash on the wall (like st)
fix hitbox on cr. hp and make it faster


#5

ex shc guaranteed to hit twice.
make his specials either safer or easier to land.
better AA normal or better mobility (backflip, dashes) or iframes on ex st


#6

I wouldn’t ask about u2’s startup because I feel like Capcom likely would not completely undo a change they made. U2 could be easily safejumped before in SSF4 anyway. If I was going to pitch changes to Capcom, instead of just hounding for fully invincible everything with giant hitboxes, I’d try and get Capcom to sneak these things in for Vega:

+1 frame faster forward dash. (FYI, Vega never got this and a lot of people seem to think he did. He didn’t.)
Why? Vega can FADC for some extra damage but the timing is a strict 1-frame window, and its an awkward timing because it’s not in the rhythm with Vega’s links. Vega had his offense nerfed, never had a fantastic forward dash, and this change would be a new minor help to his offense in a world of other characters with incredible options.

Make CosmicHeel better on block by 1 frame.
Why? Being at a negative frame advantage is bad enough for Vega. I see the reasoning with -4 on block making it punishable to the entire cast at the worst ranges, but this makes the move too bad. -3 at worst is a much much better compromise.

Make mk.ST invincible on frames 2, 3, and 4.
Why? I’ve never used mk.ST for any reason ever, I’ve even tried to find HKD setups where you use it to space yourself better but it still isn’t very useful. This would give mk.ST a great use for intercepting sloppy jump-ins from certain ranges, yet still leaves Vega on the defensive from meaties and many angles, which doesn’t change his design of needing to defend (instead of threaten a reversal) after getting knocked down.

Other possibilities: making the first hit of mk/hk/ex.ST FADC-able (minor defense option that does not lead into significant damage and still loses to meaties), making KKK/PPP able to be used as a reversal so you have one more tool vs option-select pressure loops, making SHC cause a soft KD so that it is safe on hit, make a mask loss only cause half of the loss of defense so that its overall beneficial to Vega (and you will see more mask throws - making the spending of EX-meter worth it)


#7

Mask/claw loss is a joke. You’re getting the shit beat out of you and by default you become weaker, yeah i dont give a fuck if it this is how its always been since sf2. And it doesnt work as a strategy if you want to intentionally remove the mask because you’ll have to go out of your way to avoid picking it up again.

I concede that everyone has a few useless or not so useful specials/normals but as it stands Dan has more specials that he can rely on than vega. In fact vega only has lp rcf. And if it wasnt hard enough to use him his almost reliant on 1 frame links. No real way to apply pressure means you play someone defensive then you’re at a disadvantage. Poor defensive options means you’re fucked if they rush.

If they want to open vega’s game up then they need to buff his specials. Let him fkn use his izuna dive like it was meant to be because cr.mp and kara throw is basically his only game plan.


#8

Also give him inv on bloody high claw coming off the floor.
Fix U2 Startup
give him a command grab


#9

Reasonable List:
Invul. Frames on Ex-ST
Give old CH back
Imporve hit/hurt box at start of U1,and if it hits you on the way up, the whole ultra should connect
Reduce recovery on missed or blocked FBA, ex or not
Be able to combo into U2 after ex roll(give U2 back old start-up time basically)
Give cr.HP a a decent hit box and longer AF(it blows my mind this one hasn’t been fixed yet)
Much faster start up on HP RCF
Make SHC non-punishable on hit
Reduce recovery (to bare minimum) on both flips.

If I wanna get picky:
All versions of ST have some invincibilty
Be able to FADC EX ST
Better forward dash
Improve hitbox on st.HK
Ability to reset after a full ST connects
U1 full invincibility if you go toward the wall(away from opponent)
Make landing U2 after CH easier on a grounded opponnet
Much wider grab range on FBA
No recovery on whiffed FBA
Ability to cancel FBA with a kick button once you ht the wall
Make SHC faster in every way possible(startup,hit,recovery)
No recovery on kkk flip, minimal recovery on ppp flip
Chip damage with claw
Better stamania


#10

1**. AT Least** extend hit boxes on all claw/punch moves all the way up to the tip and extend just a tad bit further, like 1/7 or 1/6 of a training stage block. and make the flips a reversal move.

  1. give Invul to all Scarlett Terror, but,

LK.ST has 6 frames of invulnerability, and recovery extended by two frames, start up stays the same
MK.ST has 6 frames of Invulnerability, and recovery extended by two frames, start up stays the same
HK.ST has 4 frames of invulnerbility, and recovery extended by 1 frame, and start up extended by 1 frame, provided that Cosmic Heel - HK.ST still connects at any range like it does now
EX.ST has full invulnerability for 5 frames, recovery extended by two frames.
NO FADC on any of them

The thing is, Vega needs a reversal, but he shouldn’t be able to simply throw one out whenever he wants simply because he has meter. What this does imo is stop redundant linear attacks, and gives Vega some breathing room, but not enough where he can just auto pilot. He has to evaluate wheter he wants to get somebody off him. This partial invulnerbility also makes ST the same bad AA that it is, and it prevents people from just holding down back all day every day. EX having full invulnerability makes opponents respect that wake up, just a tad bit, but forces Vega to choose between personal space and offensive options. if by chance you throw it out, the opponent should get the opportunity to punish you with what ever he wants easier as well, the risk should always equal the reward. The added two frames to the move also makes previous meaty cr.mk set ups possible again.

Please give him back Cosmic Heel. to be decent in this game you need more than mediocre frame traps, and a versatile move that leads into big damage. With block strings already being limited, and landing real damage with Vega of a poke like st.lk or cr.lp requires tight execution, I think he needs some sort of real offensive mix up game, that can be initiated of a neutral standing position, and not just of a knockdown like the current EX RCF does for him.

Please increase the speed of MP/HP/EX. RCF so they can all combo of cr.mk at least. MP.RCF should be int the middle of LP and HP/EX.

Please improve slide so that it at least somewhat safer. If a slide is doing that little damage and starting up some wake up games of that slide is pretty difficult, Vega should be at least able to have a safer slide.

Please improve the hit box of st.hk, and cr.hp so they work better as an AA while on the ground to allow for better ground control and not sacrifice space by jumping up every time in anticipation and and have them simply walk up to you. Vega is supposed to control the ground very well, it makes no sense that does abilities are seriously hampered when the opponent decides to jump.

Keep everything else the same please.

So just make a gay twitter account and spam this till he blocks me? That’s the plan right?


#11

you already can, in fact you can also combo into Ultra 1 as well.


#12

Say what???


#13

I wouldn’t go that far, BUT they should give him his fake wall dive from HD Remix. That would be pretty sweet. For those that don’t know, you can cancel his wall dive at any time by pushing a kick button (?) and Vega will fall straight to the ground with no recovery.


#14

I dont know…as we speak im sitting here trying to pull it off. doesn’t look like you can. I think that’s why they reduced start up time on U2 in AE, so you wouldn’t be able to combo after ex roll.

edit:
I’ve tried it 10 times now and and I really don’t think it’s possible. the start-up of U2 is too slow.


#15

you need 3 meters do so, so Vega is on the same boat as half the cast. Do I sacrifice current damage options now, or do I go for the Ultra and start up my momentum now? Or do I save it for a hail marry?

That is the first thing that came to my mind when they said EX was now +4 on hit, fish for frame traps using cr.mk using EX RCF, and go into Ultra. Im suprised I don’t see cr.mk being the new face of Vega’s offense game which is then mixed up with cr.mp, lp. RCF, and EX RCF for some frame traps and bait opportunities. but im not suprised as well.

But if you are interested the notation looks like this

EX RCF xx FADC Lv.2 xx Ultra of choice

Its a one frame link but, deals 400+ damage for a simple frame trap, fair trade off. But like I said, combo into Ultra doesn’t make a character any good.


#16

Oh, I thought you meant you can combo directly into it without a FA, right after ex-roll. This is what I was referring to.


#17

that would be to good, in a less than mediocre game.


#18

i cant nail this link for the life of me
even on counterhit

yeah opponent reovers before level 2 fa even becomes available. i’m getting lvl 1’s blocked


#19

Everything above but to add fuel to the fire…can Vega please, please, please! do ST > U2

Please elaborate…I’ve never heard about this


#20

He’s right.
EX RCF xx FADC Lv.2 xx Ultra of choice.
It’s a one frame link as it’s tough as nails to pull off but I was able to do it.
In training, that is.