Game States Trainer


#1

There are lots of examples of just how unpredictable the result of any two particular moves will interact with each other in fighting games. Say, for example, Dhalsim’s mid kick drill vs. Honda’s headbutt, even in a relatively simple version like ST. What happens? Sometimes the drill wins. Sometimes, the headbutt wins. Sometimes they trade.

Sometimes right after a match, you wonder what went wrong because it’s not so clear in such cases- did you have the wrong counter move, or did you just mistime it? Sometimes, you DO know the counter, but are led to believe it is NOT the right counter, because you mistimed it (due to pressure, mis-Executed, etc).

It’d be nice to be able to replay your game, but starting from just before the critical points (e.g. where your counter missed or did not work as you had hoped during the match). You could play it from that point in time of the match (that particular state), over and over, for about 5 seconds each time until you time it right (or, experiment with different counter moves).

I think GGPO uses particular game save states and syncs them up, eg it starts both players off at the select screen with a certain number of credits for each. So it can start from a particular state of a game- with the same exact pixel perfect distance and recovery times etc each time. It could just start you off from the point you want each time, put you right in the flow and let you get used to that particular situation, exactly as it happened.

With the Dhalsim’s drill vs. Honda’s headbutt example, you have control over Executing your own move’s/counter’s timing, and best guess of your opponent’s next move and his particular timing, but even when you guess RIGHT about both it is still easy to trade or even get hit by it.


#2

Super turbo has been proven to be random sometimes. Google it.


#3

Actually, that is some kind of rumor that got started and applies more to the amount of damage that moves take off in ST, not how moves trade hits vs. other moves. In fact ST is more consistent in most regards compared to any fighting game since, if only for the fact that other games have gotten so much more complex compared to it.

It has been played a lot more than others, so people have been finding all sorts of small notes of peculiarities but those are relatively minor things. The game slows down when a character does a super (making it hard for opponent to time a counter), you could say that makes it “random” so to speak but the basic red box, blue box basics are there.

In any case, this isn’t specific to ST. You can apply this idea to any two moves of any two characters in any fighting game. If any game you apply it to is “random”, by putting the idea into practice, at least you can get a true sense of the ranges of randomness (eg, in ST of damage the moves take off).


#4

what about 2 zangiefs spd simultaneously

btw, whatever happened to Execution Aid?


#5

re: simul. spd’s- Good question- I don’t know. If they both normal throw w/in range simultaneously, that was actually a question back in the day (for any game, not just ST) and it was posited or just supposed that P1 would get the throw (and since ST, P2 the tech instead of full damage). And that was just because the code is Executed sequentially where one is simply tested before the other, even if that’s less than a millisecond or two. Maybe it was actually tested around that time, ala that video that demonstrated CCC2 had offline frame lag?

In any case, if ST does anything “random” in this (never-actually-happens) possibility, is any game since ST different than how it works in ST? Alpha 3 for example has all kinds of crazy wacky complex odd things happening depending on this that and a third. I only mentioned ST because it’s what I’m more familiar with and feel it’s the simplest of games still being played, but I was hoping my idea could be applied to any fighting game (or any emulatable game, for that matter).

Execution Aid is still at Version 2- and btw sorry about the file hosting of “File Factory”, that has been flaky. I have a short attention span and though a Game States Trainer would be a nice complement to Execution Aid, though I myself probably won’t have much time to work on either pretty soon here… but I’ll look into those features you asked about though this week.