Gen Basic Info (Move/Usage, Frame Data, Hitbox, Combo, etc.)

gen

#1

Glossary

s. or nothing = standing
c. = crouching
j. = jumping
:p: = Any Punch button
:k: = Any Kick button
LP/:lp:, MP/:mp:, HP/:hp: = Light Punch, Medium Punch, Heavy Punch (respective)
LK/:lk:, MK/:mk:, HK/:hk: = Light Kick, Medium Kick, Heavy Kick (respective)
(charge) = Hold down the direction for at least 2 seconds.

Commands

Mantis Stance

Hyakurenko / Rapid Slaps / Hands
:p:~:p:~:p:~:p:~:p:…
Armor Break
Gen strikes with his hands multiply times doing a small of amount damage with each hit while pushing his opponent back. You have to input 5 punches. You can either ‘piano’/‘slide’ them or mash one punch 5 times. This move is well known for Gen’s former infamous MK to Hands Poke / combo game.
Even if you can’t loop it anymore, it still plays an important role in your Footsie game due to its armor break property (you can also use c.mp or c.mk etc).

On Youtube are a few good tutorials (e.g.):
[media=youtube]8BYcgWkmaSs"[/media]
For further information or if you would like to ask something about this topic, check this thread:
Gen Mk Hands 101

Damage
LP | MP | HP| EX
48 | 96 | 96 | 112

Usage:
You use hands most likely to finish your combos or to cancel them into your Mantis Super. However, since hands do very poor damage, a followup into a LK Gekiro is always prefered, if possible. Yet, hands are a good tool to end block strings at a safe distance, in particular against grabbler. You can also add more hits if you mash punch buttons while doing them.

LP has the longest start up, does the least damage and has the fewest hits.
HP does the most damage, comes out quickiest and has the most hit.
MP is a mix of both.
You can also super cancel the HP version till the 4th hit (LP till the 2nd and MP till the 3rd), which is an easy way to hitconfirm your Super. Another purpose of HP Hands due to their quick start up is, to abuse any opening in your opponent’s pressure game and interrupt him.
Ex Hands push the opponent the least amount back while letting you still at a frame advantage, giving you the possibility to combo afterwards. (Most likely a Mantis c.hk for knockdown and further wake up game or Mantis c.hp / another MK => Hands for damage).

Gekiro / Waterfall Kicks / Air Kicks
:dp:+:k:…:k:…:k:…:k:…
Gekiro is like a Shoryuken (uppercut / dragonpunch). Gen jumps with his foot towards the ceeling hitting his opponent. After the first hit you can juggle your opponent further if you press the same kick button again, ending with a final kick, if you complete all hits. LK version has 6 hits and does the least damage, MK has 7 hits and HK 8 hits while doing the most damage. Getting all 8 Hits requires alot of practice, since you have to time the hits.

You can view this tutorial to get a clue:
[media=youtube]jLLfTuKQ8UQ"[/media]
For questions or further information, check also this thread:
Gekiro Help

Damage
LK | MK | HK | EX
141 | 152 | 167 | 167

Usage:
All versions have throw invincibility.
LK Gekiro hits lower (with his second foot), thus making it your best non-meter reversal, and also giving it a great combo ability. With only 6 Hit’s it’s also the easiest to fully complete. If you don’t get the Full HK version consequently, try this version, it does only a small amount less damage, but still more than a 7 Hit HK Gekrio.
MK and HK Gekiro hit high (with his front foot) making it a good anti air move, while letting them often whiff in combos. Currently there is no reason to use MK Gekiro at all. It does less damage then HK, but has the same properties (and difficult to complete).
Due to some nice invulnerable frames and its hitbox, Ex Gekiro is your best friend when it comes down to reversal, anti air or anti pressure tool. While it does the same damage as the HK version, you can “mash” the followup kicks with no timing to get all 8 hits.

Change Style: Crane
:lk::mk::hk:
Gen switches to his Crane Style, giving him access to a whole set of different moves. You can also switch between styles in a combo.

Zan’ei / Super
:qcf:,:qcf:+:p:
Armor Break
Gen rushes towards his opponent and dashes trough him multiply times. The opponent is considered at a juggle state at the end, giving you the opportunity to followup with any move, for instance Mantis Ultra 1 / 2, Crane Ultra 1, a sweep, Gekiro or a normal for a reset.

Damage
300

Usage:
The LP version has the least range, but has some invulnerable during his first active frames, making it a good use against short range fireballs or pokes.
HP version has no invulnerable frames, but goes almost fullscreen, letting you punish several moves from your opponent - even at a distance.
MP is a mix of both.
You can super cancel many moves from Gen, in particular Hands are an easy way to hit confirm it.

Zetsuei / Ultra 1
Armor Break
:qcf:,:qcf:+:lp::mp::hp:
Armor Break
Has the same properties like his HP Super, but does more damage and has more start up.

Damage
405

Usage:
Like any Ultra the main purpose is to make sure it does really hit. Either as a punishment or in a combo: Focus Crumble, after an Oga Hit, after his Mantis Super, after a close range or corner Crane c.LK or after a jump in with any Hard attack.

Shitenketsu / Ultra 2
:qcb:,:qcb:+:lp::mp::hp:
Armor Break
Gen does a few Rapid Slaps, if they connect he follows up with concentrated hits on his opponent’s character points and end it by his touch of death against the forehead.

Damage
443
IMPORTANT: This move makes only “scratch” damage (tempoary health lose, which your opponent will recover over time, if you don’t hit him meanwhile - like Focus absorption).

Usage:
The most important thing after landing this Ultra is to pressure your opponent to get a further hit to convert the scratch to real damage. To kill your opponent you’ve to do approximately twice the damage as your opponent’s remaining life. (e.g if he has more than 221 life, it won’t kill him)
This Ultra will whiff against airborne opponents, making it much less viable as Ultra 1. You can still hit with it after a Focus Crumble, after the Mantis Super or a hard jump in attack. Also due to it’s quicker start up you can combo into it after Ex-Hands against big hitbox characters like Abel.

Crane Stance

To make a charge move come out you can use any of the direction button. For instance, you can hold either :d: or :df: or :db: to charge a :d: move.

Oga / Dive Kick
(charge):d:,:u:+:k:
Gen leaps against the wall (:u: and :ub: to jump at the wall behind him, :uf: to jump to the wall behind his opponent). There are several followups:
?after Oga: neutral - Close Dive Kick - Gen does a short dive kick towards his opponent.
?after Oga: :r: - Far Dive Kick - Gen does a long dive kick toward his opponent.
?after Oga: :l: - Cancel - Gen let himself fall, after he reaches the wall.
?after Oga: :u: - Gen jumps to the ceeling above his opponent giving him the following options:
-after ceiling Jump: :d: - Ceeling Drop - Performs a straight dive kick on his opponent’s head.
-after ceiling Jump: :r: or :l: - Angled Ceeling Kick- Gen does a angled dive kick to the right or left.
-after ceiling Jump: neutral - Ceeling Cancel - Gen let himself fall far behind his opponent.

Damage
100

Usage:
Depending on the kick button used Gen jumps to different heights at the wall. LK beeing the lowest and HK the highest. This determines the range for Gen’s Short and Far Dive Kick, but it’s irrelevant for Ceeling jump and its followups. All versions do the same damage.
Oga is a strong, yet random and slow mindgame tool. You’ve to read your opponent to hit with it consequently. Depending on the height you hit your opponent it’s more or less unsafe if blocked. An Opponent knowing this matchup well, will rarely be hit by it randomly. Though, you can set up some nasty traps (landing before your opponent and get him with a reversal) or do a crossup with it.
Ex Version has projectile invincibility untill he hits the wall. However it’s nearly never of any usage.
After a landed Wall Dive you can followup with any normal, Gekiro, both Supers, Mantis Ultra 1 and both Crane Ultras (hitting with Teiga requires a strict timing, tho). You can also do a crossunder reset with crouching or standing Jab and dash under your opponent.

Oga Cancel is a great escape option, if used correctly, to reset your spacing.

For in depth usage of Oga or questions visit this thread:
Kickin’ it - The uses of Oga

Jyasen / Roll
(charge) :l:,:r:+:p:
Gen rolls towards his opponent while attacking and ends with a hand poke. LP goes over the shortest distance, does the least damage and hits only 3 times. HP version has the biggest range, does the most damage and hits 5 times. MP is a mix of both.

Damage
LP | MP | HP | EX
100 | 125 | 150 | 160

Usage:
The move alone is rarely used. It has a terrible start up and moves over the screen like in slowmotion. LP roll is somewhat “okaish” as a poke, but there are better options. The best usage of this move is in combos. Most likely starting with crane c.mp. It’s also good as a punish while in Crane Stance and charged or after a frontal jump in attack combo. It does decent chip damage, making it sometimes a match ender, when your opponent is on low hit points.
Be aware! Even tho it’s mostly safe, it can be punished by some characters with longrange grabs like T.Hawk’s and oiled up Hakan’s. (needs further testing).

Jyakoha - Super
:qcf:,:qcf:+:k:
Gen jumps angled towards the ceeling, catching any opponent on the way and smashing them to the ground. This will only hit airborne opponents and functions more like airgrab. Thus allowing to even hit opponents that aren’t in a juggle state anymore. HK versions jumps angled and has the longest range. LK version jumps nearly vertical. MK is a mix of both.

Damage
320

Usage:
Due it’s small start up it’s an excelent anti air, if you can pull it off on reaction. However, Mantis Super is more viale since it’s easy hit confirmable and due to followups more damaging. Still it does alot of damage and can end the round pretty easily. You can hit with it after one or two hits from Gen’s target combo in air to air situations, cancel Crane c.lk into it, after an Oga hit, after 2-7 hits from Gekiro (depending), traded Crane s.hk and after a Crane c.hp as counter hit in the corner. Also you can catch an opponent after a Focus Crumble while he slumps to the ground where he’s considered airborne for a few frames.

Ryukoha - Ultra 1
:qcf:,:qcf:+:lk::mk::hk:
Ryukoha is a more damaging version of his Super, but comes with a slower start up and has a different hitbox (it’s wider, but has less height).

Damage
398

Usage:
Like his Super counterpart, it’s an excelent anti air, if you’re fast enough. You can set this up after one or two hits from Gen’s target combo, an Oga hit, a traded Crane s.hk, after Mantis Super, a corner Crane c.lk or after a Focus Attack Cancel of a Crane c.lk. (FA has to hit, then dash cancel).

Teiga - Ultra 2
(Air):qcf::qcf:+:lk::mk::hk:
Armor Break
Gen does multiply Dive Kicks through his enemy
You’ve to do this while you jump. Another method is to input :qcf::uf: on the ground (will make Gen jump) and do another :qcf: immediatly after he leaves the floor. It starts at the same height, irrelevant how close you are to the ground. Despite having fireball invulnerability, it has no invincible frames and will get stuffed alot if not used as an punishment. Also it has to be blocked high (will hit crouching opponents).
Damage
428

Usage:
It has a good usage in air to air combat. Moreover it’s an important mindgame tool against fireball characters. You can punish any fireball they throw, while you in the air and therefore make your opponent fear to throw any further while you’ve Ultra. Sadly, it has a poor combo ability. You can combo into it after an Oga, but requires really strict timing and isn’t very relaible. Another option is after a Focus Crumble. You’ve to do it in different ways depending on the character you’re facing and where you stand. Visit this thread get an in depth look: Focus Attack to Teiga Guide

Change Style: Mantis
:lp::mp::hp:
Gen switches to his Mantis Style, giving him access to a whole set of different moves. You can also switch between styles in a combo.

Notable Normals:

Mantis
s.MP - Leavs you at a huge +Frames advantage and is therefore very safe to use either on block or hit.
s.MK / c.mp - These are his best pokes and are cancelable into hands, making them good armor breaking, safe pokes. s.MK has quicker start up, but less range, more recovery and does less damage.
c.HP - Besides Gekiro, this his best anti air move in this stance.
s.HP - 2 Hits.

Crane
s.HP - 2 Hits. 200 Damage and Stun. This move alone is a very good punish after a Focus Crumble. The first hit, hits low, the second high, making this a situational but surprising mixup move.
s.MP - Gen’s Overhead. Has to be blocked high. 2 Hits.
c.HP - Knockdown as counterhit. Does 180 Damage and 300(!) Stun. Hitbox is larger than his Hurtbox, therefore a good meaty wakeup poke. You can bait your opponents in reversals which will get stuffed by it. Due to incredible long start up not very reliable in your ‘normal’ poking game
c.LK - Knocks your opponent in the air and put him in juggle state, allowing further moves like any Super, c.hk or Gekiro (corner) etc. You can also use any other normal for a reset.
c.MK - Has projectile invincible, you can avoid most (but not all) fireballs with it. Here is a chart showing which you can dodge and which not. Crane c.mk projectile dodging chart
c.HK - Arguable Gen’s best anti air normal. Good range, but has to be used with the correct timing due to its relative short active frames. Too early and it’ll whiff, too late and it will get beaten out or it’ll trade. Has UNBELIVEABLE long Recovery (-16 frames on Block, -12 on Hit). It’s safe as anti air, but a standing opponent get’s a free punish - even on hit.
j.MK - One of the best Crossups ingame. Very large hitbox, but due to changed jump arc, somewhat less good usable.
j.HK~j.HK - Gen’s Target Combo. It’s a good jump in option against Focus Attacks, since it hits twice. You can also chain Crane Ultra 1 and Crane Super after it, if you hit your opponent in air to air combat.

Info
For advanced use of the normals, specials and ultras, check out the combo thread:
SSFIV Gen Combo Thread
For advanced footsie gameplay, strategy or questions, visit this thread:
The Gen Footsies Handbook
To see everything in combat, the video thread is your place to look (later pages):
Lay Hands on 'Em!!! New Video Thread

Kara Throws

Kara Throw is a technic where you cancel the first frames of a move into a normal throw. This will add slightly more range if you cancel a move that will push Gen a little further. Gen’s kara throws aren’t very major in terms of range advantage, but can give the edge you need to throw your opponent while remaining out of his throw reach.
You have to cancel the very first frames of the moves - almoust simultaneous. E.G: You hit MP and “slide” over to LP+LK instantly.
Which brings the most range remains undecided so far. Maybe someone is willing to test it further.

Mantis:
LK~LP+LK
MP~LP+LK
MK~LP+LK
HP~LP+LK

Crane:
MP~LP+LK

Other differences between Mantis and Crane Stance
Not only you get new moves, specials, supers and ultras, Gen also changes some properties.
Since Crane is considered his “Foot” Stance, he jumps further and walks faster than in Mantis.
On the other hand, Mantis Stance gives him decent more range on his Focus Attack.

Frame Data

Gen SSF4 Frame Data
(Click the link to open a picture containing all moves)

Hit Boxes

Click on the move’s name to show its hitbox.

Mantis
LP | MP | HP
LK | MK| HK
c.LP | c.MP |c.HP
c.LK | c.MK| c.HK
j.LP | j.MP | j.HP
j.LK | j.MK| j.HK
Gekiro: LK | MK| HK| EX
Rapid Slaps
Super Mantis
Ultra 1 | Ultra 2

Crane
LP | MP| HP
LK| MK| HK
c.LP| c.MP | c.HP
c.LK | c.MK | c.HK
j.LP | j.MP | j.HP
j.LK | j.MK | j.HK
Oga: Far| Close| Ceeling Drop
Roll
Super Crane
Ultra 1 | Ultra 2

Forward Throw | Backward Throw
Focus Attack
(thanks to street11 for making them)

Description
White Numbers:
Range of the Throw/Hitbox.

Long horizontal solid yellow box:
Makes the opponent block, instead of walking backwards, if he’s within.

Transparent yellow boxes.
Stands for the physical place your character consumes. No hurtbox! This makes you simply unable to walk through each other.

Solid red boxes
Hitbox. If this meets a hurtbox, a hit / block concludes.

Solid blue boxes
Throwbox. If this hits a Grabbox, a throw occurs.

Green lined boxes
Hurtbox. If a hitbox from the opponent strikes this, you’ll get hit.

Blue lined boxes
Grabbox. If a Throwbox of the opponent collides, you’ll be thrown.

Red lined boxes.
Hurtbox like mentioned above, but immune versus projectiles.


Gen Guide List Compilation
#2

Why has nobody commented on this yet?

Great summarization of basically his whole moveset, untill it is sticky’d I also add this to the Gen list compilation thread along with some other new useful topics. Too bad the rep system is removed, because this is amazing.


#3

Great post!!! Really well put together


#4

Very nicely put together, I’ll be needing this since I plan to pick Gen up as a second alt (Hey second time’s a charm, I tried it in vanilla XD)


#5

Didn’t you main Vega and alt Bison or something? If you plan to pick him up as a secondary chances are you might go full time with Gen, I know I did back in the beginning of vanilla.


#6

yea gen really fun to play even if i drop him for my main for honda he still fun to play. although when i lose with honda it not as frustrating as the super version of gen tho.


#7

I main Vega, alt Bison.Want to pick Gen up as a third. I used to 3rd Gen in vanilla and can’t remember why I dropped him, I think it’s because at the time I wanted to focus on using Vega and Bison until I got decent with them, so now I’m willing to step into the waters a bit.

and nah, he’ll never be my main, Vega will be my main forever, honestly, I’ll never drop him because I love him that much as a character.


#8

Just been mucking around with Gen’s combos today and looking at the frame data. But i’ve found that most of his crane normals(mainly light/medium) are now cancellable. It’s sorta cool that you can cr.lk to oga ceiling drop which makes it safe and it’s a really meaty overhead when they tech it.

Edit: NVM, it just appears all of Gen’s framedata is listed incorrectly in the cancel section for crane normals, they’ve always been special cancellable.


#9

excellent post. Thanks for everything you did here.


#10

How is Oga Ceiling Drop safe? It’s one of Gen’s most unsafe moves.


#11

Yeah I didn’t understand that either.

On block you have enough time to srk fadc metsu hadouken and whether or not it is a meaty doesn’t matter as long as the opponent doesn’t try to jump or reversal.


#12

Reset into oga wall dive cross up would be the better move if you were going to do anything. But I’d only use it vs charge characters that have no meter, or if they don’t have a god like down up charge move like Guiles flash kick or Rogs Headbutt. But using the cross up and Feint the oga dive would be at least safer. However, if you are going to do any sort of Ceiling Dive, I’d use the Angle version. If you miss you should have enough room to get away, if you hit then punish.


#13

yea Oga Ceiling Drop only really useful during the last part of the match, i usually use it for chip damage after a knock someone down.


#14

I was just stating a useless combo. If you cr.lk into ceiling drop and they quickstand, it hits meaty(late/giving additional block advantage) making it safe on block i believe, but i haven’t tested it for a while.


#15

I just figured this out and was wondering if anyone knew this. Its a little useless, but did anyone know you can change the speed (jab, strong, fierce) in the middle of hands? Try it with jab and keep it going then start mashing fierce, you can really see the difference.


#16

^you can add aditional hits if you mash punch while hands.


#17

It just came to me. Kara Throwing should be here.

PPP

MP~LP+LK
MK~LP+LK
HP~LP+LK

KKK

MP~LP+LK


#18

You forgot the easiest Kara Throw: Mantis LK~LP


#19

upset at myself for not reading this thread, good shit man seriously much respect…im maining gen for a bit ill be glad to post all my findings, by the way the crane and mantis focus attacks have different hitboxes, did street get the data for both of them?


#20

His focus attacks also differ in speed afaik.