Gen Tier Discussion

gen

#1

How do you guys think Gen stacks up in console super. After all the dust has settled with various users dropping the old man, and some making returns and new discoveries, i dont think its all bad. Here are my matchup scores in my opinion

Character score/Gen score

Abel-6/4
Adon-6/4
Akuma-6/4
Boxer-5/5
Blanka-5/5
Cammy-7/3
Chun li-5/5
Cody-4/6
Viper-6/4
Dan-5/5
Dee jay-5/5
Dhalsim-5/5
Dudley-5/5
Honda-5/5
Fuerte-6/4
Fei-5/5
Gen-5/5
Gouken-5/5
Guile-6/4
Guy-5/5
Hakan-? maybe 4/6
Ibuki-6/4
Juri-? maybe 5/5
Ken-6/4
Makoto-5/5
Dictator-5/5
Rose-5/5
Rufus-6/4
Ryu-5/5
Sagat-4/6
Sakura-5/5
Seth-? but 7/3 IMO
T.Hawk-5/5
Claw-5/5
Gief-5/5

advantage gen-cody, hakan, sagat

disadvantaged gen-abel, adon, akuma, viper, fuerte, guile, ibuki, ken, rufus

#!*/$@!! at the character select screen-cammy, seth

keep in mind im far from an expert gen player, but IMO gen is at a disadvantage in 9 matchups where the opponent is 1, really hard to anti air or 2, they take full advantage of gens poor wake up and close range defense, or 3 they are named guile

gen is at an advantage when he can severely out play his opponent on the ground taking advantage of their lack of footsie tools, namely mobility and low hitting normals

gen gets fucked when the opponent can basically do whatever they want with mixups and mobility

the rest of his fights are even. what are your opinions? discuss


#2

“Your” Gen is too good IMO.

Cody: 5/5. Cody does have some nice footsies plus he can zone and his damage output is among the best in the game. He’s really underrated. I’ll agree that Gen’s mkxxhands and sweep does fuck him a bit though.
Sagat: 6/4 Sagat
Bison: 6/4 Bison or worse
Balrog: 6/4 Balrog or worse
Guile: 7/3 Guile
Chun: 6/4 Chun
Zangief: 6/4 Zangief
Gouken: 6/4 Gouken… or something, can’t really rate this MU accurately, but Gouken’s game is fairly effective against Gen.

But I think Gen might have a little advantage versus Makoto, Dudley and Rose. I aways thought that Gen’s design was supposed to counter Chun and Rose, but because he’s underpowered and Chun is full of bullshit, in practice I can only see him taking on Rose.


#3

The only 7/3 matches I’ve experienced are Cammy and Rufus. All their specials knock down, they capitalize on those knockdowns, can punish wrong defensive decisions severely… and basically you get raped in the corner. I’d rather fight Guile.

Regardless of mix-up potential, Seth feels more like 6/4 instead of 7/3, since he still takes huge damage and Gen has powerful moves. I’ve played scary Seths and in neutral situations he’s still easier to get in on than Akuma.

More to follow.


#4

i feel when gen closes into mid range vs sagat, he is at a really strong advantage position. theres really nothing sagat can do in that spot besides low tiger shot, and hope he spaces his tiger knee correctly

i have a ton of bison matchup experience, so i may be biased. the fight can be rough if you wind up in a corner, but if you walk in and out of his lk scissor range, he can be out footsied. plus he dosent have many responses to crane jump ins from that spot. also gen dosent have to keep blocking scissors because of reversal fierce hands

you may be correct about balrog, guile, and gouken. i almost listed them with the same scores, but attributed my loses to them to lack of experience.

chun is strong, but i feel like i can fight evenly on the ground with her. this is also a fight where i have a lot of exp. spacing yourself to whiff punnish her fierce and roundhouse or sweep is key, while also being able to use her throwing fireballs as a way to get in. if you jump properly, she has to block or back dash

gief can be a polarizing match. at first i thought it was a clear 7-3 for gief. but thats only if you cant control him in the neutral game. if he never gets his knock down the fight is yours easily. if he knocks you down, the fight is his easily. 5-5 IMO


#5

I understand that Sagat’s options mid to close distance aren’t that good, but I feel that in this MU, neither is Gen’s. You can’t really score good damage at our own most advantageus range, we have to go forward and try to keep some pressure on. But Sagat’s defense is still scary and he has a easy time filling meter for the TU FADC. That, and when we do get a life lead we can’t turtle properly because of Tiger Shots barrage. Oh, and Gen’s pretty free for Sagat’s pressure when he gets in.

I used to main Bison and I have some exp on both sides. Bison’s downback against Gen is strong. If he’s coming at you, he is giving a chance for Gen to fight back. If he’s holding his charge, if he’s getting meter from devil reverses, if he’s using his superior walk speed to space things up and lame you out, things gets really complicated. Now I understand that footsies based matchups leaves a lot for the players to decide, but Bison definitely has better tools. By the way I think Gen will do fine in this matchup in AE.


#6

in my opinion , the worse match-up its Ibuki , one knockdown say goodbye

i’ll post the worse match-up (IMO)

Honda , Blanka , Abel , “IBUKI”


#7

To me, most matches seem like they are 5/5. I don’t feel like Gen have an advantage in any matches.

The only matches I think Gen is at a 6-4 disadvantage are: Honda, Rufus, Dhalsim, Cammy and Guile.

T.Hawk and Gief are 5/5 until knockdown where I think the matches turns into (I’m ready to be ridiculous) a 7-3 in the grapplers favor.

Oh and Dictator having you in the corner can get pretty unfortunate. Basically, what HNIC Mike just mentioned.


#8

I’ll give my insight here in a bit (i’m at school on my iphone) but I think we should do it this way. Since everyone has their own good match-ups and bad match-ups we should all give our score out of 10, then after we get enough do a avg of all the scores for each match-up. That might be going a little too far. But HNIC Mike’s match-up for Gief (5/5) maybe different in someone else’s opinion. Since we are probably all basing our scores on personal matches and videos we’ve all watched. I think if we really want to get a new accurate scoring. We should do it that way. A bit of work, but worth it, if we want to see the actual out come.


#9

sure if thats whats you’d like to do. i just wanted to get a discussion going. i’ll say that my list is based completely on my personal experiences. i just wanted to guge how gen stacks up in other peoples opinions.

i personally think most of the well known and publicized lists have most of the matchups wrong


#10

Most are even except (imo):

Dhalsim: can easily keep Gen away.

Guile: hard to get in due to fast sb recovery and strong AA normals and airthrow

Honda: he does as much damage with 1 hp than Gen will do with mantis super (lol). That and he can herp derp pretty easily with ex headbutt on cross-up auto-correct.

Cammy: A good one will never ever let you just jump in at all, and a knockdown is pure hell with her as we all know.

Grapplers are even untill the knockdown, quite amusing match-ups in my opinion. I’m not sure about Seth being so hard for Gen either. Anyway, in AE most character he had some torubles with are either nerfed a bit or nerfed quite some, on top of some sweet delicious buffs for Gen himself I think he will end up just fine for us. Maybe not high midtier, but I don’t really care. He was supposedly absolute shit in this edition too, yet people still get detroyed and blown up.


#11

Yea, that’s how I was looking at your list. Sort of like the tier list Air just came out with about HIS Ryu match up chart.

I think it’s good to know where everyone stands in terms of matchups though, so they could possibly get some help to make the match up better.

For instance, Seth to me is 5/5 firm. But Mike views it as a 7/3 disadvantage. And then we could get some cool talking abouts why he has a hard time and what tactics i might use they he doesnt to make the match a little more even.

etc. etc. (?? ³?)?


#12

basically, i never fight good seths, so when i face one that knows what he is doing, i get my shit pushed in. total lack of matchup inexperience.

i dont know the correct response to tandem engine. i dont even know the properties of the move. i just know im at a huge frame disadvantage when it hits, and its a mix up from there between low shorts or spd/dp. and speaking of those two moves, i dont know any of the data about those either.


#13

I think the Gen/Gen match is 7-3 imo. -nods-


#14

I feel that every match up is 5-5 IMO

But when it comes down to the specialists like Choi, F.Champ, Vangief, Tatsu, Mike, It’s a whole different story.

It also depends if your opponent has the Gen match up experience


#15

“keep in mind im far from an expert gen player, but IMO gen is at a disadvantage in 9 matchups where the opponent is 1, really hard to anti air or 2, they take full advantage of gens poor wake up and close range defense, or 3 they are named guile”

I lold


#16

I pretty much agree with Warlike, with the addition of C.Viper being another tough one.
Walk forward -> eat EX seismo -> Ultra
Poke -> eat EX seismo -> Ultra
Jump -> eat AA -> Ultra

Maybe not as harsh offline though.

So yeah, I too feel that Gen mostly is 5-5, if played perfectly. It’s just that playing Gen is like juggling between two really bad characters, which can take up alot of valuable mental capacity.

Cool seeing nubb here btw.


#17

i think gen is fucked against a good fuerte player

  • you cant really play footsies against his command run options
  • you get raped on your wakeup (and almos all his moves knock you down)
  • as soon as he can punish something, he does like 400+ meterless dmg (and huge stun) with his fierce-run-stop loop
  • you cant really pressure him on his wakeup

#18

fuerte is almost a natural counter to gen, they are like polar opposites.

all gen has is fundamentals, all fuerte has is a bag of tricks


#19

If you plan on competing, these kind of threads kinda tell your opponents how to counterpick.

Meh, anyway. I don’t think the Cammy matchup is that bad. Bait DP, punish ultra, Hp->Gekiro spiral arrow on block, don’t predict techs but react, s.mp will win against non-ex divekicks often, Ex Gekiro destroys all divekicks if not meaty, don’t try to use crane c.hk or mantis c.hp as AA.

Zangief matchup isn’t that bad. Bison is in our favor. Fuerte isn’t shit if you make him respect your ultras and Gekiro.

Personally I think Ken, Ibuki, Guile, Honda, Chun, Blanka, Viper, Rufus, Sim, and Dudley are bad matchups. Dudley not really.

In most of the characters listed: Stop jumping when you shouldn’t, stop mashing crouch tech, and know who can punish your specials/pokes.


#20

I tought honda made spicy gen noodles and slurps it all up in one “headbutt”

herp derp style.