Genei Jin vs Seiei Enbu


#1

I was personally wondering two things about the two SAs:

  1. What do they do in terms of pure mechanics? As far as I know, both of them work like “Activate -> huge combo”. I get the sense that Yang’s shadows with Seiei Enbu hit as normal some time after he does, but I still have no idea what Genei Jin actually does to allow Yun to juggle like a madman.

  2. What about the mechanics makes SA3 Yun so much better than SA3 Yang? I mean, Yun will never pick anything other than SA3, but Yang seems to be better off with SA2 most of the time. If they’re both crazy combo supers, why does one of the characters benefit so much more from it?


#2

Yun can combo off genei jin, and into a half-life juggle

Yang doesn’t have a lot of moves that juggle like that, and he cant verify into SA3 AFAIK

Genei has a property of making Yun’s juggle limit infinite or something I guess.

The shadows do an individual hit (i think its 3 for Yang and 2 for Yun but I could be wrong), and Yuns moves change somewhat while in Genei.

Also a good yang rarely uses SA2 for its actual super, but uses it because it has the largest EX stock.


#3

Yang SA III is more similar to V-ism in A3 where you have 2 hits trailing your original (ie 3 hits total for every move). I’m not SA III Yang expert, but I’m fairly sure that the properties of the moves stay the same.

Yun SA III is not similar to V-ism at all. First, there isn’t a juggle limit (as far as I know) in GJ. Secondly, many moves have their own properties in GJ. Lunge punch hits for 3 hits, shoulders hit for two (unless you’re juggling with them), palms come out faster. Generally speaking, all moves come out faster and have less startup/recovery on them. Many moves also have their damage scaling changed though there are exceptions like forward + MK (this move still has been changed to be able to juggle though).

Basically Yang’s shadows mean he has extra hits trailing him, Yun’s shadows mean the properties of most all his moves have been changed.


#4

In Genei Jin, Yun’s normal attacks have noticeably less startup and recovery. Each hit also resets the juggle count with the following exceptions:

Divekick: Ends the juggle, cannot perform a reset.
Palm: Adds 1 to the juggle count. If you do nothing but (kara-)palms, you won’t get past 6 even with infinite meter.
Jumping Jab: Adds 6 to the juggle count. You won’t really notice this unless you’re juggling a stunned opponent with Genei Jin.

As for Seiei Enbu, whiffed moves after knockdown give the next attack weird properties. I’m not going to bother explaining it, so just watch RX’s “untitled” combo video.


#5

Yun SAIII > Yang SAIII… why? Because:

1)18 hit combo hits me!!! What!!! Only took out like 15% of my health wtf?? You coulda just fierce kicked me twice!!

  1. 18 hit combo hits me!!! What!!! Took out like 30+% out of health wtf?? 8sec later… What??! Genei Jin already? I’m fucked…

lmao


#6

Seiei Enbu + Genei Jin = V-ism

Seiei Enbu is the shadows part of v-ism and Genei Jin is the part of v-ism that lets you juggle and cancel like crazy.

its cause story wise, yun and yang were taught by Gen from alpha and i guess he taught them v-ism stuff. but whatever.


#7

Seiei Enbu = garunteed damage after the first mantis slash that last the duration of the super (if you keep mantis slashing but not finishing the last slash), and it also has unblockable dive kick properties i think

Genei Jin = juggle off of normals but you have to set them up in the air. This is really easy to do since all your normals are super fast and super priority, and you can command throw them to put them in the air.

Both can be comboed into. Genei Jin does way way way more damage.


#8

Seiei Enbu can’t be comboed into (not that I know of). You can super cancel it off attacks, but it doesn’t seem to activate it fast enough for hits to connect… unless you know something I don’t.


#9

could have sworn Seiei Enbu could be comboed into from s.strong, s.fierce, b.fierce chain combo. I dont play Yang so i definetly could be wrong. Either way, Genei Jin is either way better or way better.


#10

You can’t keep doing the first two mantis slashes then waiting the doing that over and over until the super has ended. I’m pretty sure the opponent can block but if timed really dead on, you can keep doing the first mantis slash with like a sc.lk in between I think.


#11

you don’t have to do a lk in between the slashes


#12

you lp mantis slash over and over again. Just the first part. It goes like to 30-40 hits if you get it consistently I think. It also does guranteed chip which is almost impossible to tech out of. It doesnt do alot but it will annoy the fuck out of someone. You can vary the timing on the mantis slashes so the opp will probably never parry out. If you think you see a parry just do 2 mantis slashes back to back. Just never end the mantis slashes cause youll lose your frame advantage. After yang does the lp mantis slash, obviously hell shadows will follow it. When the non shadowed yang gets back to standing frames just repeat the first slash.

he does have a guranteed setup I believe. I think its like c.mk slash slash slash, acitivate seinbu, HK teleport, unblockable, c.mk canceled into short teleport, c.mk unblockable. After this first unblockable I like to throw like 2 mantis slashes to keep them holding back before I land the unblockable. I think its also possible to keep on doing the unblockable once you land the first one. Also after the first unblockable and you teleport you can be throws\jabbec etc. The more often you mix the opp up the more likely youll get away with the teleport.

I think if you catch an air reset right you can activate before the opp hits the ground and just open up with repeated unescaeable mantis slashes. Close s.mk activate would probably work too. Its more of yun trick though but it could keep the opp on the ground long enough to get the unblockable in. If not the unblockable at least the mantis slash strings.

Ending the seinbu right will give you 60% of meter back. A dive kick then combo string or a lucky c.mk slash slash slash will give you full meter. Then just repeat the chip shit and watch the opp try to get out of it. You can also just work off the slash frames and if they to escape end the slashes and repeat the frame advantage until you get a meter again. Very cheesy when you get 2 meters in less than 15 seconds.


#13

how is that guaranteed? and what are even talking about when you say “unblockable”?

this should be interesting…


#14

the difference is that i’m not scared when seiei enbu is activated


#15

Throw?


#16

c.mk slash slash slash is a knockdown. before the opp has time to recover you activate seinbu. Theres plenty of time to activate before they roll or get up. After you teleport you have an unblockable setup. This might be wrong though since you can roll and possibly hit yang before he starts the unblockable. This is strictly a character situation though. The worse the anti air the better for yang. If the opp doesnt tech roll that shit is FREE because of the lag on the shadows. Any knockdown or setup that you can turn into a xup dive kick will be unblockable if they block it. They can always anti air out of it like DP or anything of the sort. The unblockable is just a dive kick but it must cross them up. Yang will land after the dive kick but the shadows will still be in the air. The opp will be facing you as the 2nd or last shadow will perform the dive kick and hit the opp in the back of the head. Once you land, watch for the unblockable and start a chain if you would like. Im pretty sure its possible to just unblockable them the whole time if you would prefer that. It looks cool and when it happens you dont know which way to fucking block. The only trick is landing the the dive kick seeing how the seinbu doesnt give you any frame advantage while in activation I think. Im not a yang master but I play with him every once in a while and i see no sped up frames like yun would have. This is why yang seinbu isnt practical and the fact that it doesnt do a lick of damage.

Depending on how you do the xup determines which shadow will hit them. Early xup = 3rd shadow late xup = 2nd and 3rd or just 2nd or just 3rd. The late one is really buggy for some reason. itll hit and move the character out of range for the last dive kick and or 2nd one. You can use this to your benefit as an ender and just work of off the mantis slash frames. When i say mantis slash frames I mean like mantis slash (small pause) mantis slash repeat. I can only get this with the lp slash. fp slash has extra frames for it maybe? A blocked or hit mantis slash results in + frames for yang and its possibe to just slash all day unless the opp parries, counters or super out. Very hard to parry out of though IMO if done right and counters get baited. The unblockable will miss small characters like chungli or the twins sometimes if they crouch. If that happens just do it again.

I guess 3s gets glitchy once you start hitting from both sides of the character. Thats probably why urien has an unblockable too.

This works in the arcade version and I think ps2? Im not sure which consoles allow this. I heard alot of stuff about the dc and ps2 versions not having some stuff right.

on The CV site there was an australian 3s tourny where a yang player landed a double unblockable if my memory serves me right. I think it was the same tourney where the akuma player won with the dwn dwn dwn 3 punches super. He only used yang once or twice but he got it in at least.


#17

its my understanding that the divekick trick isnt unblockable, just merely hard to block correctly. but yeah on any knockdown, activate, divekick, cr. mp, cr. rh, repeat.

regardless, unless you are kofiend you should pick SA2…or yun


#18

SA2 Yun is the shiznit.


#19

sa3 is grat w/yang! He already builds meter hella d=fast so you can still use ex slashes. Plus if you go into one of his unblockable strings thats at least 30%


#20

I believe he does not have unblockable strings, just hard to block/react to.