General Scissor Kick Strategy

m-bison

#1

Ok a disclaimer. I hate keeping strategies in my head and i’d always rather organize it on paper, and this is why this exists. so you might think “damn this guy is so cocky to think he is the shit to write this guide”, honestly i was thinking of just keeping this to myself. I do not claim to be a bison god, although i have been playing him for a while. also, i am aware that this guide does not take into account some matchup specific flaws to this strategy, which i would appreciate to know about. After i showed this to my friend he suggested I post this because he thought it might get good feedback. I was reluctant to do so, but here it is. i tried my best to fix formatting errors from posting this from a word document into this forum. the most important parts of the post begin below with the corner scissor kick strategy. note that this stuff in the beginning is just a compilation of some options. and also, lol this is probably not “my” scissor kick strategy, alot of people use it i’m sure. if you have the patience to read it all, please give me some feedback on what i’m missing, or if i got it all wrong.

Bison Scissor Kick Game

Note on Scissor kick frame data:
Scissor kick has 2 active frames, the 1 frame in between, then 4 active frames.
Scissor kick will only hit twice if both hitboxes land.
Since scissor kick is 0 on block, there is the potential for bison?s scissor kick to give bison +1 frame advantage on block if he hits with the second active frame of the first hit. If he ever only hits the opponent once, bison has frame advantage. But he is pushed quite far away so? can?t really take advantage of it too well. Or can he?

Some notable options if scissor kick is blocked:
? (3f) Close Range C.lkxxScissor Kick
? (3f) Counterhit attempt Option select c.lkxxscissor kick
? (6f) S.hk
? (6f) S.mk
? (10f) Immediate Scissor kick
? Focus Attack
? Bait: Walk back, scissor kick
? Walk back, dash in/FADC dash in, and throw <- mix up option.
? Bait: Crouch block
? Dash and throw
? EX Headstomp

Enemy?s notable options if they block a scissor kick
? Short ranged attack (ryu c.mp or c.lp) -> Their safest choice if they expect you to c.lkxxscissor
? Long range, uncancellable standing normal
? Long range, cancellable standing normal
? Long range, Uncancellable crouching normal (ryu?s c.hk)
? Long range, cancellable crouching normal (ryu?s c.mk) -> Their optimum choice of normal to beat walk back style
? Reversal: Dragon punch type -> loses to walk back pressure
? Reversal: Horizontal moving type -> loses to walk back pressure, but may depend on move
? Reversal: EX SBK -> loses to walk back pressure
? Immediately Jump up or jump back (corner only)
? Bait your scissor kick, then invincible special move
? Bait your scissor kick, then neutral jump or jump back
? Walk back (midscreen only)
? Jump back (assuming midscreen)
? Backdash (midscreen only)

Corner Scissor Kick Game Strategy

? Assume opponent is in the corner. Corner removes the variable of walking back.
? Assume that the enemy is BLOCKING a scissor kick POINT BLANK or CLOSE to point blank, AKA your scissor kick startup is vulnerable to their quick normals and they haven?t been knocked down yet
? Assume we are fighting against ryu: ryu has a reliable reversal. Make adjustments if they don?t have one.
? General purpose of strategy: Bait your opponent into making a mistake and then punish him. Low risk, high reward. (love the vague description)

Strategy vs Ryu (Ryu is the standard because he has an effective no EX meter reversal. Other characters ?become? like ryu when they have ex meter.)

1. General strategy: After the opponent blocks scissor kick in the corner, walk back until you are far away enough for your scissor kick to startup outside of their normals range and scissor kick again. This is great because it is low risk and beats the following options:
a. 1. You are baiting shoryukens, as you will block them if they come out and you can punish. If you walk back, ryu is also unable to fadc the shoryuken to make it safe even though it is blocked. This is because you are too far away (very nice).

b. 2. You get out of the range of jabs and strongs

c. 3. You are getting in the optimum range to scissor kick again because you?ll be out of the range of jabs and strongs, and you?ll beat them too.

d. Note to mix in dash in throw if they get mindfucked and just block, but this loses to some countermeasures below that also beat scissor kicks. this is also very important because if you’re getting too far away, it is a way to reset the scissor kick game.

e. edit 11-4-2010: be careful not to walk too far.** note that the point of walking back is to establish the optimum range for you to scissor kick, which is at least outside of their quick normals range and ideally out of their poke range.** you can also establish this range by doing c.lkxxscissor to push yourself back. if you always do this, you run the risk of trading vs another 3 frame normal (not that big of a deal in the corner, but breaks your rhythm a bit). part of the power of c.lkxxscissor is that it beats crouching normals used to hit you when you’re walking back, so don’t abuse c.lkxxscissor as a way to space yourself backwards, imo anyway. **when you are already out of range of their quick attacks (jabs and strongs), start crouch blocking or you will be too far to apply the corner pressure effectively. it is very important that you are still in range to s.hk to pre-emptively anti air them at all times, because jumping out is the most natural way to escape corner pressure. **

keep in mind also that some characters have longer pokes than normal and will make your corner scissor kick pressure less effective since they can stuff its startup from farther away. for those characters, take a look at their frame data and look at how fast those pokes start up. if they start up slower than one of bison’s primary pokes, say s.mk or s.hk, take a note of it and use those pokes to stuff those pokes. if the other character has a poke that is both fast and long ranged (ie, vega), scissor kick pressure can still be useful but it becomes sort of matchup specific from there. for example, against a character like vega (disclaimer: this is just my thinking for the moment), who has very long pokes that come out quickly for their range, it is not a very good idea to walk backwards. instead, you actually want to stay close and keep scissor kicking them. it sounds counterintuitive, but in fact the reason why is because if you stay close, he fears the c.lkxxscissor, since it starts up in 3 frames and his fastest move is 4 frames. the c.lkxxscissor is your ace up the sleeve in corner pressure against vega because it will counter all his normals and if you land it on him, you get close again so you can do the c.lkxxscissor again. HOWEVER, once you are out of c.lk range of that he doesn’t really need to be scared as much anymore because he can stuff your scissors and it’s difficult to counterhit his poke even with the c.lkxxscissor option select. therefore… this alternative “stay close and scare them with the threat of c.lk” strategy is not as good as the general strategy vs ryu, unfortunately, but it’s all i can come up with atm vs characters with long pokes. still can be effective.

2. The enemy?s first countermeasure: Walking back loses to crouching mk or hk.
a. C.lkxx scissor beats these normals since crouching mk or hk are all at least 5 frames.
[INDENT] i. You can do c.lkxxscissor up close, which will touch the opponent and will act as a blockstring on the opponent if they are blocking, or will counterhit them if they try the c.mk or c.hk.

   ii.	You can still use c.lkxxscissor as an option select (meaning the scissor kick doesn?t come out unless the c.lk connects first) from farther away if for some reason you were pushed out during scissor kick pressure.  It still has the same function of counterhitting the opponent?s low normals as if you did it close up, but the scissor wont come out if your enemy does nothing.

   iii.	If your opponent feels too pressured by your c.lkxxscissor, they can either do 3 frame move and trade with you to reset the situation, or do an invincible reversal (shoryuken)[/INDENT]

[INDENT][INDENT]1. If they start doing 3 frame moves, back off and scissor kick them again.
2. If they have a shoryuken and 2 stocks, get ready for a shoryuken FADC -> be very careful about c.lkxxscissor at this point, as this is the major time you can get shoryuken FADCed using this strategy. Ideally you want to walk back, because shorykuen will whiff. This mindset makes the enemy?s crouching normals even more dangerous, so get ready to play some mindgames with the enemy.[/INDENT][/INDENT]
b. The enemy can also do a standing normal, preferably like ryu?s solar plexus to cause bison to block. But this is an inferior option since crouching normals hit bison, and they still lose to c.lkxxscissor
.
3. The enemy?s second countermeasure: if you walk back, the enemy gets a free jump in (or if they are ryu, tatsu escape), or jump out of the corner (escape)

a. Bison has to psychic s.hk jumpout attempts from the enemy. If you walk back even for a split second, your enemy can jump out at you if they hold up forward immediately after the scissor kick (your s.hk on reaction will whiff. Don?t try to do this). Be careful because this can lose to alot of low attacks. Again, c.lkxxscissor will beat their low attacks -> if you expect that they expect you to s.hk their jump out, c.lkxxscissor their low attack. or they might just do a normal that outright beats s.hk, like guile’s s.hp. c.lkxxscissor still beats it.

b. Upon resetting the enemy with s.hk, it?s as if they just blocked a scissor kick, except you have an opportunity to get farther away. keep in mind your opponent’s shoryuken tendencies and be careful not to eat a shoryuken after resetting him. in other words, treat it just like you would a knockdown… only with less time to think about it.

4. The enemy?s third countermeasure: If you are too predictable with the timing of your walking back and scissor kicking at the safe range from normals, the opponent has several options:

a. The enemy can 1. Jump right when they expect you to scissor kick, bison will get owned hard.

b. The enemy can anticipate when the scissor kick comes and 2. Shoryuken/invincible special move right as the scissor kick is coming. You can get fadc shoryukened here into ultra.

c. Solution: don?t always scissor kick at the same time. Mix it up.

5. The enemy’s fourth countermeasure: wake up jump
why does this work? because you will want to leave gaps and bait reversals when you enemy is waking up. this is how you reduce risk for yourself. the enemy can take advantage of you just waiting there and jump in on bison, who has poor anti air options at this range generally.

If you are too predictable with baiting, since you are basically sitting there, and bison has poor anti air options at close range (besides ex headstomp), the enemy can simply jump forward right at you to either cross you up or land in front, depending on the range. this is a bastardly tactic and i think there are two ways to beat it.
i. s.hk to the face on wakeup. unfortunately, this exposes you to SRK FADC Ultra, and is in general a very dangerous move for you to do since it’ll lose to low attacks as well that go under the s.hk hitbox
ii. if you do a meaty scissor kick on the enemy, you will knock them down as they try to jump. again, exposes you to srk fadc ultra, but beats low attacks, so this is actually a better option than s.hk.
iii. if you are baiting and they jump?: while you CROUCH BLOCK (after you knock them down with a scissor or they block scissor, hold down back immediately to charge, then continue to hold the crouch block until you see them jump) to bait shoryukens/etc, if you have good reactions (you need better reactions the closer you are to them) you can ex headstomp to beat their wakeup jump out. A big problem is that ex headstomp, if blocked, creates a huge opening which the enemy can use to kill your pressure. wakeup jump is indeed a bastardly tactic.

The enemy can also wakeup jump up or wakeup jump back (this is different than countermeasure 3 because they wait a second on wakeup, anticipate your sk and then jump).
Wakeup back jump or wakeup jump up you can also ex headstomp, and it is easier to roundhouse them. BUT if you time your roundhouse wrong you run the risk of eating a j.hk or something in the face into a sweep or something like that. EX Headstomp or headstomp are the best (if risky) ways to outright beat jumps out of the corner.

6. The enemy’s fifth countermeasure: wake up normals or specials that give frame advantage
This is sort of included with low attacks to beat your walking back, or LONG POKES (in the section below) to beat you, depending on the frame data. If they have a normal or special (sonic boom counts as a long poke that gives frame advantage…) that gives frame advantage you can lose pressure immediately if you bait to block all the time. This can be beaten by meaty attacks like c.mkxxscissor or c.lkxxscissor if you are close, but again, you expose yourself to the risk of reversals. It’s important to do meaty attacks to beat these because if you bait all the time they are simply gonna tick you and get out.

Modifications to the general strategy should be made if:

1. The enemy?s fastest normal is 4 frames or only has standing 3 frame normals
a. fastest move list: Each character’s fastest moves, either 3 or 4 frames

4 frame moves (need to reversal/backdash/block after blocked lk sk or will get counterhit by your 3 frame c.lk)

Abel: cl.lp, cl.hp Watch out for EX TT
C.viper: cl.lp, c.lp
Dan: cl.lp, cl.lk, s.lp, s.lk, c.lp, c.lk
Elf: cl.lp
Honda: c.lp Watch out for oicho throw.
Gouken: cl.lp, cl.hk, c.lp, c.mk Watch out for counter
Guy: cl.lp, s.lp, cr.lp, c.lk
Hakan: s.lp, c.lp, c.lk
Makoto: s.lp, f+lp, c.lp, c.lk
Rufus: cl.lp, cl.lk, cr.lp, c.lk
Seth: cl.lp, cl.hp, cl.lk, s.lk, c.lp
Vega: cl.lp, cl.lk, cl.hk, s.lp, s.hk, c.lp, s.mp, c.lk
Zangief: cl.lp, cl.lk, s.lp, s.mp s.lk, c.lp, c.lk Watch out for SPD

Note: Rufus, Elf, C.Viper, Vega, Gouken have no 3 frame normals.

3 frame moves (can trade with your c.lk with a move after blocked lk sk)
Adon: c.lp, s.lp
Akuma: cl.mp, s.lk, s.lp, cr.lp
Balrog: cl.lk, cr.lp
Blanka: (3 frame s.hk) (4 frame: cl.lp, cl.lk, cr.lp, c.lk)
Cammy: cl.lp, cr.lp
Chun: cl.lp, cl.lk, s.lp, c.lp, c.lk
Cody: s.lp, knife c.lp Note this is a standing normals
Deejay: cl.lp, s.lp Note these are standing normals
Dhalism: back+lk, down+lk
Dudley: s.lp, c.lp
Fei Long: cl.lp, s.lp, c.lp, c.lk
Gen: mantis(s.lp)
Guile: cl.lp, cl.lk: Note these are standing close range moves
Ibuki: cl.lp, s.lp Note that these are standing moves
Juri: cl.lk Note this is a standing close range normal
Ken: c.lp, c.lk
Bison: c.lk
Rose: c.lp
Ryu: cl.lp, cl.mp, cl.mk, c.lp
Sagat: c.lp
Sakura: cl.lp, cl.lk, s.lp, c.lp, c.lk
T.Hawk: cl.lp, df+lp
b. Twisted)Jago says: Thanks man ! the frame data helps but do not forget to mention moves that may be slower then our 3 frame lk but happen to put characters in animation where the lk would whiff aka sagats st. mk will stuff out scissor trap thank god sagats dont do it.
or abels st. short where in order to continue your trap you have to do your st. short.
c. BIG NOTE: 3 frame characters that only have 3 frame STANDING moves lose to c.lk because most of them will whiff. So you can treat those characters as weak to c.lkxxscissor as well. Needs testing, I think juri and blanka might trade.

2 The enemy has long pokes (with relatively faster startup than bison’s primary pokes): If the enemy has long ranged pokes that will beat scissor kick even if you walk back. Like vega?s c.mp, or bison?s s.mk. This is a very big problem to the standard vs ryu strategy outlined above.
a. Solution:
i. 1. If they are abusing their pokes, c.lkxxscissor is even more important to do at close range. It is likely their long ranged pokes are not jabs, so you can counterhit them. if you are already walking back and they do the long ranged poke though i dont know if this is that easy of an option to do though because you need to have some godlike counterhit timing. As a result, you actually want to stay close to your enemy when scissor kicking vs characters with long pokes… if possible (it’s matchup specific).
ii. 2. If they are using a poke that is not cancellable, FADC dash through it. Jumping can work too vs slow pokes but because bison floats so long this could be a very bad idea because they might have a chance to escape.
iii. 3. If this happens, bison’s options are matchup specific, although generally the c.lkxxscissor becomes more powerful. and there is way less benefit to walking back. in fact you might want to stay up close and spam scissor kick and threaten the enemy with c.lkxxscissor. this is not as good as the general strategy up above vs ryu though.

3. The enemy has the Fourth Countermeasure: a long range kara throw or a long range command throw
a. This will beat walking back. Abel will beat walking back. Scissor kick pressure is much more dangerous against these people, and at first should revolve around punishing the command throws/kara throw (neutral jumping and backdashing). When they are scared to throw, start walking back again. This is another thing to worry about besides the crouching normals and thus scissor kick pressure is harder on these characters.

4. The enemy has no good reversal w/o meter
a. No adjustments needed, but take note: If the enemy has no good reversal w/o meter and has no meter, you don?t have to worry as much when you are c.lkxxscissor kick because that is mostly vulnerable to reversals. You still want to do the walk back strategy and use c.lkxxscissor to defeat crouch normals, but now you have even less risk with c.lkxxscissor.

**5. The enemy is not in the corner: **
a. If the enemy is not in the corner, and they block the scissor kick, they gain the option of
i. 1. Walking back. They can start spacing themselves away from bison, but if they just walk back bison is now in footsies range, where he can dominate.
ii. 2. Jumping back now has the added benefit of escaping from bison, but is still weak to bison?s s.hk.
iii. 3. Backdashing. This is an annoying option because in order for bison to punish it outright, he has to put himself at some serious risk.

  1. Solution 1: Immediate Scissor Kick If you expect the enemy to backdash, doing another scissor kick immediately will beat it. Unfortunately everything beats an immediate scissor kick so this is a high risk option. Backdashing is a very low risk option for the opponent and opens up the high reward option of the enemy to hit bison while he is starting up the immediate scissor kick (dangerous for bison). EDIT:11-4-2010: actually a really good option if you are still in range to c.lkxxscissor them is to do the c.lkxxscissor option select scissor kick. do this by doing holding back, then hit c.lk, press forward, then lk, then press lk again. if you do it right, and they backdashed, your scissor kick will still come out because there is still some residual charge. if they blocked, you will get c.lkxscissor as a block.
    2.Solution 2: Crouch Block Perhaps a safer option if you expect the enemy to backdash is to crouch block, see if they backdash, and immediately walk forward and punish with a normal. If they don?t backdash, try c.lkxxscissor, or go into footsies mode.
  2. If you were expecting the enemy to jump and they backdashed instead and your s.hk whiffed, plink s.mk immediately to get them to block. Watch out for shoryuken though.

Review of my options after enemy blocks scissor kick:
? (3f) C.lkxxScissor Kick: discussed in detail above. In short, it beats crouch normals that the enemy does to stop you from walking back.
? (6f) S.hk
o After your enemy blocks your scissor kick, you can think of s.hk as (almost) always punishing neutral jump, jump forward, or jump back (note this includes neutral jump! Die, chun li.)
o The exception is when your enemy blocks your scissor kick at the extreme tip range. They can safely neutral jump or jump back without fearing your s.hk.
? So don?t do that or you might give your opponent the advantage to escape.
? If your opponent blocks scissor kick at the last active frame (very tip range), they can even jump in on you, although you will be spaced perfectly to anti air them.
o This move is completely vulnerable to low pokes unless you are point blank range (which you are not)
? (6f) S.mk
o This also punishes jump attempts and has the added bonus of trading with poorly timed crouch normals. While the damage sucks, it is somewhat safer than s.hk, but only if the enemy has bad timing on their crouch normals (usually 5 frames)
? (10f) Immediate Scissor kick
o I?m not really sure why you would do this in the corner. It loses to practically everything except blocking if the enemy knows when to time their normals.
o When midscreen after the enemy blocks scissor kick, this beats backdashes.
? Focus Attack: this is a really shitty option unless the enemy is using uncancellable normal moves on you after you scissor kick.
? FADC dash throw: Again, only good if the enemy is using uncancellable normal moves after you scissor kick
? Bait: Walk back, scissor kick: the normal strategy
? Bait: Crouch block. This is best if you are expecting the enemy to backdash midscreen and want to punish them on reaction. You can crouch block to block the low normals but then the enemy has reset the situation sort of.
? EX Headstomp: I didn’t talk about this above but EX Headstomp works great in the corner as anti air. the problem is you sacrifice your scissor kick momentum if they don’t jump and just block. this is actually a really big deal and i think it’s a bad idea to do generally. i don’t prefer to do ex head stomp but i will if i really smell the jump coming.

You knock down the enemy with scissor kick. Now what?

  1. Walk back to bait and get charge, see if they reversal, and then scissor kick if they don?t. You?ll eat normals with scissor kick at this point.
    a. Don?t get predictable with this. If they know you wait to see if they reversal first, they can just shoryuken you a little later.
    b. This is probably the default way to keep scissor kick pressure.
  2. Scissor kick immediately as a meaty attack. This is a risky move and really only good to get your opponent to try a shoryuken next time, so don?t do it two times in a row unless you are extra ballsy.
  3. Down back charge and do baiting normals. Limit yourself to c.lp or c.lk. On wakeup, do:
    a. Block
    b. Meaty attack (w/ charge and scissor kick followup). A risky move but it can setup the normal scissor kick game again or just plain knock them down. Will beat throw techs.
    c. Meaty Throw. One of the best options to get the opponent to start opening up with reversals.
  4. Walk forward and do baiting normal. This will probably be a more effective bait. Limit yourself to c.lp or c.lk. On wakeup,
    a. Block
    b. Meaty attack (no charge). Probably best to do cl.s.hp, test?
    c. Meaty throw
  5. other baits you can think of (backdashing, etc)

You throw the enemy into the corner. Now what?
5. (same as #3), except with less leniency on baiting normals: Slide to get in and get down back charge
a. Bait normal with c.lk
b. Meaty attack (w/ charge)
c. Meaty Throw


#2

I believe you can actually reduce this whole thing to a pretty flowchart picture. It’s more pratical to have the several options detailed and organized in such a way.

Also, two things to mention:

i.) Listing all of the 3f moves the game characters have is not necessary. Almost every single character has them. Those that don’t, have 0 frame command throws or simply an invencible way of reversaling out. Basically, that pretty much sums it up in terms of which characters can and can’t trade with c.lk (most will whiff on c.lk’s max range if you do pause after scissors).

ii.) Answering what Andre mentioned: Sagats don’t use s.mk to stop scissors pressure because the move hits on the 9th frame. That’s two centuries. They don’t wanna eat a counterhit s.hk. Also, focus attack. Also, EX PC. It’s not a good idea to do s.mk right after blocking a scissors. And no good idea at all, in general, vs Dic. Dic’s s.mk/s.hk will beat him all the time.

And good post! A bit heavy, but I believe you can trim it a bit and cut the fat you want =)


#3

Nobody will think you’re cocky if you’re putting up masses of information which people can find useful.

Provided the information people document is tried and tested it can only be beneficial to these boards.


#4

Great post!


#5

This is actually a well written way of presenting it. Good post.

One thing to be conscious of post scissor kick is the reversal property on specials. It makes baiting/countering moves that you would normally focus against (ex rainbow roll, hazanshu) much riskier.


#6

thanks guys for the input. and yeah, i’ve been pretty successful using this strategy, so it’s tested and it’s done pretty well. the one big problem is people with long range pokes stuffing me before i can scissor kick even after i walk back. if you expect it, you can focus dash through it but that loses to cancellable moves. fortunately alot of the long pokes in the game are not cancellable. the other thing is if i expect them to do a long poke, it also has a long startup so sometimes i scissor kick earlier than usual (dont think i wrote this up there). mixing it up screws with your opponents options. i also don’t walk back all the time, sometimes i crouch block and then scissor or crouch block for the ex headstomp, so yeah as long the enemy has to guess it’s all good.


#7

if they get too cocky with long range pokes that stuffs you, try EX PC or EX SK (better if you have meter for FADC).
Sometimes doing mindless actions break up you opponent’s mind and give you the momentum of the round


#8

the official bison pressure revealed!?!?


#9

lol probably not, but i guess it’s a step. theory is just theory anyways. in practice the person who can apply it with better mindgames will have the true official bison pressure.

a few things i missed. if you are too predictable with walking backwards, the enemy can actually walk foward and throw you. so mix up meaty attacks. there is alot of risk for the enemy to walk forward and is a pretty ballsy move.

i have some problems using this strategy vs vega. i think considering that his claw puts his offensive hitbox a reasonable amount beyond his vulnerable hitbox (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/Graviiga/Vega%20Hitboxes/crlp.jpg) and his range and speed of pokes, this strategy could use some serious reconsidering on this matchup. c.lkxxscissor is good vs vega since he only has 4 frame moves, and i’m sure they know this so watch out for the ex izuna. once you’re pushed out of c.lkxxscissor range from scissoring, i don’t tihnk walk back scissor kick is a good strategy vs him. you gotta figure out when he’s gonna poke and ex scissor or ex psycho or fadc dash. maybe even jump, but i think this is too slow for bison. vega is a matchup where you gotta just get that knockdown and kill him on wakeup. lol

but yeah, i posted this up cuz i’m sure it has holes in it. i just dont know if anyone wants to reveal their secrets… lol!


#10

Nice writeup, very informative.
:tup:


#11

Great information!, Should be stickied.


#12

yeah one more thing. if you’re trying to do scissor kick pressure mid screen, walking back (unless you’re point blank, in which case you should probably walk back a little so your next scissor doesnt get stuffed <- the point of walking back) is probably not a good idea. for bison, it seems like walking back in the corner is ok cuz the enemy is always stuck in one position.

but if you walk back midscreen, the enemy can also walk back and get closer and closer to that point where your s.hk is no longer able to pre-emptively anti air him out of a jump. if they’re aware of this point and if you’re too reckless with scissor kicks, that’s exactly where they want to be cause they can neutral jump and smash face. i think if you start scissor kick loop and have reasonable distance to begin with, just holding down back to bait is good enough, as long as they are far enough so they can’t mash srk and fadc you to start a scary mixup. but yeah, backdashing is a pretty good option for the enemy to escape midscreen so i think if they keep blocking your scissor kicks midscreen, be careful because they might be baiting you so they can neutral jump. imo that’s what’s happening here: [media=youtube]Y5f_7EY8Rdo#t=0m26s[/media]

one more flaw w/ the strategy vs characters with long pokes. normally you want to walk backwards to get out of the enemy’s poke range so you can scissor safely without getting stuffed. the problem with long pokes is it forces you to walk even farther back. the problem with this is that you also get out of range to stuff their jump out of the corner with s.hk. i dunno if opponents consciously think about this fact but it is a definite weakness. the solution is probably still to stuff those long pokes in close range with c.lkxxscissor when you can, but once you’re out of that range, bison has to take more risks with the fadc or ex scissor vs thoes long pokes.

but yeah, again i’m not really super pro or anything, although i’ll say this scissor kick strategy has definitely been working for me in most matchups (you gotta make modifications for alot of specific matchups though that i didn’t list here). if anyone wants to chime in, please tell me what kinda flaws it has and why.


#13

Wow, this is really informative. I can see this helping my game a lot, thanks.


#14

I think Vega would like a word with you. When he’s done weeping bitterly, of course.

(whaddup 4 frame light normals and no strike invincibility on EX flipkick)


#15

i think i have failed in getting critiqued on this, besides theoretical’s comment on making it a flowchart (too lazy to do). i think though because for the most part, it is the strategy people are familiar with already anyways.

if that’s the case, i feel like scissor kick pressure is naturally weaker towards characters with longer pokes (vega forums were talking about this as well. i made a note vs vega in the main post above), and against certain characters you don’t really want to be doing scissor kick pressure as much i think, like vs honda. i think in that matchup, unlike in the vs ryu one, he has an extremely damaging option if he guesses right, which is the ex headbutt (in vs ryu, the most damaging thing ryu can do really is to either neutral jump you when you’re recklessly scissor kicking, which can easily be taken care of, or to srk fadc you, where you’re vulnerable if you c.lkxxscissor or again if you’re too reckless). also vs honda, the amount of damage you do seems not really worth it for the risk, imo.

anyways… i made a few updates to the original here and there. nothing too major but i polished up the general strategy, particularly what to do against characters with long pokes and included the fact that midscreen if you are still in range to c.lkxxscissor after they block scissor kick, you can do the c.lkxxscissor os scissor to stop backdashing for low risk.


#16

lilouke, I’ll be sure to read this before I fight you tomorrow. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#17

i added two more weaknesses. nobody contributed unfortunately, but yes, now i have finally clearly thought out the actual purpose of ex headstomp in the corner rather than doing it because “it’s good in the corner”. lol. Of course there are certain instances where ex hadstomp will still lose, like guile’s air throw. gr…

anyways if you guys read this stuff, keep in mind it’s actually sort of more ryu specific than i thought… long pokes really force you to take risks in corner pressure, and against characters with high health and high damage, like honda, corner pressure is just opening you up to insane risks that the enemy actually wants you to do.


#18

NICE POST! After this you pretty answer lot of my question!
my mirror is still sux but maybe now I know why I lose to c.lk scissor all days.

I think I can make a KEN flowchart on Bipson flowchart??

if I am done I let you know -_-


#19

b/c after most blocked scissor kicks you end up at neutral frames (+0), you’ll lose to c.lkxxscissor if you go for a slower attack than c.lk, like c.mk. if they are right next to you and they always do c.lkxxscissor after you block the first scissor, just do a c.lk right as they recover. you will trade with him since you guys both do the c.lk at the same time. you can then take this as an opportunity to fight back or escape.

if they are smart they will start walking backwards outside of your c.lk range before they scissor kick or do a normal cancelled into scissor kick. when they walk back (they don’t need to walk back too far actually) you can beat them with c.mkxxscissor or just use s.mk or s.hk to stuff the scissor startup if they try this. if you try those options after you block the scissor kick to attack him cuz you think he’ll walk outside your c.lk range, if he went for c.lkxxscissor instead, you will eat it.


#20

so I ahve a question about this strategy. I use this alot but would it be better to use cr. mk lk sk in place of cr. lk sk after a blocked sk. also does cr. mp beat out some of vegas pokes ive been usin it alot more cause of its long range