Get Ready! The New Match-Up Thread

yun

#1

Here it is guys, long awaited MU thread for 2012. Here’s the format in which it’d be best to break down a match up:

-Perceived Match-up Number (5-5, 4-6, etc) with who is the likely character to set the pace in the match-up
-Breakdown of the match up in flexible order of: space control in neutral game (best distance/position to be in relation to your opponent’s character), dealing with opponent’s character tactics and executing your own, meter management of you and your opponent in the match up, and finally, life management in the match-up (things like best thing to do when down on life, or lead on life)
-Character specific things (set-ups, etc)
-Punishes
-Misc. (favorable option selects, etc)

This is just a guideline for the breakdown, nothing rigid or necessary to include all of those things, any simple input would be fine as well.

I’ll start off vs Abel so see it as a guideline.

Abel

[details=Spoiler]-Match-Up Analysis
This is a 5-5 match up in which Yun pretty much dictates all aspects of neutral game. The ONLY reason why this is a 5-5 match up is because of Abel’s ridiculous damage and the lesser damage output of Yun. If you’re on the receiving side of much of the aggression in this match-up, you’re doing something wrong. Abel almost has no tools to get in on Yun to start his offense, if you play the neutral game against him correctly. Majority of this match up is going to be you trying to wreck him and he reacts to get a knock-down of his own to start his own offense.

Since Yun control the space in this match-up, I found that I can do pretty much what I want in almost all ranges. I can choose to sit back full screen away to build a bit of meter with palm, or I can stay at the slightly-further than midrange where Abel cannot touch you at all without committing to a jump-in. You should have the liberty to stay wherever you want in the match up without too much risk. The best place to be i found is just outside of Abel’s st.lk and cr.hk range where you have a myriad of options depending on how you want to get in.

At that range, as long as you don’t do too much of the same thing, you have all the ways to get in on Abel whose bad walkspeed will make him seem pretty stationary to a highly mobile character that is Yun. You can regular jump in with mk or TC, neutral jump and bait him into jumping toward you in attempt to knock you out of the air or just take a big risk in jumping at you, or just dive kick in. You even have a lot of luxury with your dive kick meaning you don’t even have to have them perfectly spaced because his fastest normals are cst.lp and cst.hp at 4 frames in both cases he cannot hitconfirm off of.

Furthermore, you can just fish for his pokes and play footsies with your fst.mp and cr.mk buffered into a light shoulder and put pressure on him that way.

Overall, if you have a decent grasp of playing Yun, you shouldn’t have a lot of trouble getting in and opening him up at all if he has no meter. You can even play a bit stupid and go for some spaced lunges as he’ll have a lot of trouble dealing with it assuming you spaced it relatively correctly, not to mention this will keep him honest about trying to dash in to get into position. Abel really can’t anti-air you. So if he starts to stuff your jumps ins, you’re making it too obvious, start footsieing or varying your jump ins.

Also, you have complete freedom of your meter management and would probably be best to save it for Genei-Jin for this match-up. However, you will find that it would sometimes be in your best interest to burn a meter for ex-lunge for a safest way in if you’re down on life.

Things start changing though, once he has meter and uses that meter to turn the tide against Yun. Abel will be using most of his meter on his FADC combos but more importantly, to reverse the situation on Yun. He will use use EX-Tornado Throws and EX-COD in attempt for a reversal, as his only way of reversing the situation without meter is just a random reversal throw or a random step-kick (yes it’s pretty random, he’s just gonna have to give his life as currency to take chances as Yun will be all over the place). Another usage of his meter will be trying to escape the corner with EX-Roll, as when you play the match-up correctly, is where he will be forced to be most of the time. Also, if you get too obvious with your dive kicks, they’ll try to ex-cod you when you’re coming down and sky fall u after the EX-COD hits you in mid-air. Bait his EX-cod by staying out of its range if you see them going for this move as a panic-button from your unrelenting pressure, or just palm in front of him during block string or just outside of his poke range.

Once Abel reverses and is on the aggression, you will be in bit of trouble. The main tools you have to weather his offense (in order of safest to worst) before it comes to the worst, AKA a hard-knock down, is your backdash, cr.lp, jump out, and heavy upkicks. When he gets in on you via jump-in or step-kick, make him work for his hard-knock down. The ONLY 3f move he has is his regular grabs, and if you mash cr.lp after blocking a step kick xx dash, which is +1 on block, he will almost certainly have to use EX-Tornado throw to guarantee a hard-knock down aside from the low-reward of regular throw, and if anything, backdashing will save you a lot of trouble of trying to weather his offense before his hard-knockdown.

However, once he hard-knocks you down, most of our remedies goes out the window if you’re playing an Abel that knows his mix ups. He can end up in either side, high or low, with a meaty attack or meaty throw so mashing will do you no good, so it pretty much becomes a guessing game. However, I can list some things that nets him the maximum damage so you can defend against his mix-ups a bit better.

His high-hit game after a knock down will only come from a safe-jump, cross up, and his cst.hk. The jump-ins are easy to react to and sometimes our hard-upkicks will take us to safety from his cross-up if he’s not ready to punish it. So, unless he’s jumping, there’s no reason for you to block high, as the worst you will get from blocking low is his cst.hk which on hit is +5 and he cannot confirm anything off it except a st.strong: it’s just a potshot or a game-finisher.

However, he can confirm off of his cr.lk into 360+ dmg into the exact same situation as before, so block low if you’re gonna guess.

His left-right game is the most dangerous and both of them will consist of the following: meaty throw (regular or tornado), meaty cr.lp or meaty cr.lk into a confirm. Furthermore, there’s one tool that Abels use to get cheap damage which is his cr.hp into ultra after that knockdown. However, there’s a catch. If he ends up on the opposite side, his cr.hp will not be a meaty and you should have a decent chance of hitting him out of it. So, if he’s really down on life and needs to hit that damaging ultra, it’s best to block as if he’s going to end in front of you while timing your mash. This should block the meaty cr.hp if he ends up in the front, and if he crosses to the other side, you should be able to hit him out of it.

All in all, you dictate this match up, and the only thing you should respect and fear is his hard-knock down into his mix-ups. But once again, make him earn it by abusing backdash and cr.lp. I wouldn’t advise sitting duck against Abel, even if he hard-knocks you down.

-Character Specific Things
After your command grab, your maximum punish is cr.mp x2, fst.mp xx medium upkicks/ex upkicks xx light lunge.
Your bnb should almost always include a cr.mp, fst.mp xx upkicks from jabs.

[Spoiler=By Neiburo]Safe jumps:
Fwd throw, fwd dash x2, st.lk, n.j.mk
Loses to lp super.

Mk dp quickst,n.j.mk
Loses to ex TT

Mk dp no quickst, n.j.mk, st.lk , n.j.mk
Loses to ex TT

Hk dp quickst, n.j.mk
Loses to lp super

Hk dp no quickst, n.j.mk, st.lk, n.j.mk
Loses to lp super

Combos:
On standing
Cr.lp, st. lp, cr.mp x2, st.mp xx mk dp
Cr.lp, st. lp, st.lp/cr.mp, cr.mk xx lk dp, mp lunge or U1, ex shoulder
Cr. mp x3, st mp xx mk dp
Cr.mp x2, cr.mk xx lk dp, mp lunge or U1, ex shoulder

On crouching
Cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mp, st.mp xx hk dp
Cr.mp x3, st.mp xx mp lunge

Post cmd grab
Cr.mp x2, st.mp xx mk dp
Cr.mp, cr.mk xx lk dp, mp lunge or U1, ex shoulder

Post lp shoulder
On hit you can press st.hk and beat everything but ex COD.
On block your hk will get beat by ex COD and early timed sweep. N.j. Hk dk beats both ex COD and sweep though.[/details]

-Punishes
He’s -3 after you block any of his COD (first hit), try to time a cr.lp into a punish. If he goes for the second hit (the overhead), it’s -9 so punish with your strong punches into upkicks. (I think you can cr.mp, fst.mp xx hk upkicks, if not just do fst.mp xx hk upkicks or mp lunge)
If you bait out a tornado throw, neutral jump and come down with fierce into whatever combos you like depending on the space. And if you back dash just punish with light lunge or walk-up fst.mp xx heavy upkicks.

-Misc.
His cr.short is total of 15 frames, and since Abel have slow buttons, most Abels with a sane mind likes to late-crouch tech, so your neutral jump lk dive kick will blow up his crouch-tech attempts like mad.
His backdash is really ass so even if you dont option select you should be able to punish on reaction.
A lot of Abels like to backdash and immediately go for either a tornado throw or ex-tornado throw, so it maybe good to option select a light lunge.
If you’re in the corner, option select cr.lp into the ultra and it will destroy anything he tries to do except EX-Tornado throw and EX-Roll. I do this when I think he’s gonna backdash.
His forward jump mk has a deceptively HUGE range, always be on point with your anti-air and be ready against Abels that likes to get a cheap-way in.

[media=youtube]qI7jIkVic6M[/media]
Your match-up should look like this, if not, you’re not doing something right. There is little “scrubby” and amateur shit that Abel can do, so don’t get hit by anything you’re not seeing here.[/details]

[spoiler=Cody]-Match-Up Analysis
This is a 5.5-4.5 match up in Yun’s favor in which Yun will dictate majority of the match. If you have problem against Cody’s offense then you are approaching the match-up wrong, as Cody’s biggest weakness is against characters with high mobility and variety of mix-ups. If it weren’t for easy high-damage punishes of Cody, this match-up would easily be 6-4, as there aren’t a lot of things Cody can do to keep Yun out or survive Yun’s mix-ups.

Although Yun has a lot of freedom of space and mobility in this match-up, Cody can still zone with his stones. They have a good arc and hitbox to them so just be aware of where you are and where you’re jumping and you should be in good shape. If you can deal with a fireball character’s zoning ability then you should be fine against Cody’s stones.

Outside of Cody’s zoning, you have liberty to get in however fits the situation. The best distance I found is just outside of Cody’s fst.hk (aka the boot). Neutral jump from there and get in, it should be very difficult for Cody to anti air you with the boot if you make your divekicks unpredictable and will have to resort to his back.mp to anti air. Either way, he is one of the easier characters to get in on as his slow walk speed makes him rather stationary.

In addition, you have a good freedom of meter management as well, especially since you cannot finish your combo with ex-upkicks into lp.lunge. Since lp.lunge will whiff everytime unless you’re in the corner, finish your combos with heavy up kicks or lunge instead. I usually found myself using my meter for ex-lunge to get in for free or using it for genei-jin to punish jump-ins and random zonks and unthought-out pokes.

Overall, if you have decent offense and spacing with Yun, you should not have any trouble getting in and opening him up at all, even if Cody has meter.

However, I do not advise that you stay too long in front of Cody’s notable pokes’ range, which are his stomach blow (forward.mp), crack kick (forward.hk), slide (cr.mk), cr.lk, and focus attack. These are his main tools to start his offense so try not to give him the chance to start a poke/footsie war with Yun, as chances are, you will not come out on top. Ultimately though, there will be times when you will have to weather his offense and pokes - here’s how:

His stomach blow has good range, start up, hit box, and to top it all, advantage on both hit and block. He can link his low short into his ruffian kicks and criminal upper and gain momentum as well. Furthermore, on counter hit, he can convert his stomach blow into cr.fierce xx special that’ll net him at least 300 dmg, as well as linking his ultra 2. Even on block, his stomach blow will leave Cody at at LEAST +1 and if blocked towards the end of this move, +2 or even +3. This advantage mixed with the fastest and longest reaching cr.short in the game, Cody will use this 2-frame gap to counter any one who presses button or jumps after his stomach blow. Keep this in mind and decide your move from there. A wise move should be to reset the situation and back dash out of trouble.

His crack kick has the furthest range out of his normal and command normal pokes. It has a good hitbox and properties, like most of Cody’s normals. One thing to keep in mind is that Cody is not air-born during this move even though it looks as if he’s off the ground. Furthermore, this move will leap over low-hitting moves (ex: Yun’s cr.mk) and crouching characters. Whiffing crack kick to get in truly a gimmick, especially offline, as it is on-reaction punishable by hitting him during his recovery frame if you’re crouched. However, on block, this move is +1 but will leave you outside most of his poke ranges. If the Cody is using this move a lot, just buffer a lunge punch from your cr.mp and you will hit him every time.

His slide is one of the worse of his pokes, as Cody does not really gain too much from this move except the fact that it hits low. The move, when not spaced, is very unsafe on block and is unsafe even on hit. It is at best 0 on block and +3 on hit, although when it’s +3, he is not in range to link his cr.lk. It is a very conditional move to annoy the player and/or to set-up his gimmick with ex-zonk.

As long as you rush and knock him down, you should be the victor in most cases, as his reversals are horrible and very punishable.

Finally, just be aware of pressing buttons during Cody’s blockstrings, as he can easily convert a simple frame trap into at least 300 dmg to 400+ if you’re not careful. However, the safest option to stop his offense is to mash 3 frame jabs as the only threatening 3 frame-gap blockstring he has is from his cst.mp into cr.hp. Good Cody players will try to prevent you from mashing by frame trapping with this jabs, but this is preferred than to eat 400+ dmg by late-teching against Cody. If you must late-tech, just stand-tech instead, as this will reversal grab him in many cases if his blockstrings are not tight.


#2

Ryu

[details=Spoiler]**-Match-Up Analysis by IdLikeSumPoundCake
Not the best match-up for Yun, but it’s not the worst either. At lower levels, this match-up could easily be perceived as being stacked against Yun at 4-6. However, once you realize that you need to play a solid, legitimate game and adjust your game play accordingly, it becomes manageable to a 4.5-5.5 match-up.

If you play stupid against Ryu in a messy slug-fest, you will ALWAYS lose. Yun’s damage nerf and Ryu’s damage buff on his fireball and dragon punch can attest to that, not to mention Yun’s low health and lowered stun does not help either. That is why, regrettably, you need to play extra on-point against even the worst Ryus, because any fuck ups will EASILY get you 160~200 damage, if not worse. Heed my warning and play solid against Ryus, because it’s a match-up where ***any ***Ryu can take a game off you and you want to minimize the chance of that happening as Ryu is one of the most popular characters both on ranked and in tournaments.

Now, this match-up is a very straight-forward battle for space. Although Ryu has the means to try and play aggressive against you and even push you, it’s most likely in Ryu’s best interest and favor to bank on his zoning ability against Yun, as most of the time you WILL take damage trying to get in. This means that far-range game is not in your favor, so don’t try to sit back and build meter with palms while cancelling out his fireballs, because he will whiff light dps and will get meter faster than you. Always look to get in there as soon as the match starts.

The most effective way for Yun to close in on Ryu is to choke him for space by walking forward and neutral jumping over fire balls with the threat of your dive kicks and shoulders (mp, hp, or ex).

Your medium shoulder can be used when the distance between you and Ryu is about mid screen on decent reaction, so try and practice that and use it at max range to keep Ryu honest about spamming plasma (your medium shoulder is safe on block at -2 when done at max range), and if you’re further away, look for EX-shoulder or hp-shoulder, though the latter is most usually done on anticipation rather than pure reaction.

As you get closer and closer to Ryu where your dive kick becomes a threat, look to dive kick over fireballs to get in while keep bulldogging him to the corner. As you become more experienced you will be able to tell if your dive kick that hit him over his fireball is comboable or not, which is important because a lot of Ryus will try to mash a fierce dp if they think your dive kick was unsafe.

Mix up your approach by mixing bulldogging (walk up, block, rinse and repeat), empty neutral jumping, regular forward jump in, and dive kicking over fireballs into the sweep-spot where you want to be at: just outside of Ryu’s low-forward range. At this range, you run the show. You can play footsie or dive kick over his pokes. Note that at this range, you’re susceptible to Ryu’s st.jab or st.short anti-air against your dive kicks, so mix-up regular jump-in here to counter that.

Footsie with your fst.mp and cr.mk while occasionally cancelling them into shoulder, while mixing up fst.hk to further eat up space and put Ryu into the corner. However, don’t abuse the shoulder too much because he can always fierce dp in between.

Once Ryu is in the corner, the match is in your favor with your overall corner pressure with fst.hk, dive kicks, and shoulder pressure/follow-up. You will take damage closing in and will have to work to get Ryu in the corner so keeping him there is probably in your best interest. Pressure with your block strings, especially your fst.lk and fst.hk, and overall just do what Yun does best. Note though, that fst.hk into light lunge or ultra can be difficult and inconsistent but with lab practice and double tapping it can be worked on. If anything, you can just EX-upkicks afterwards to guarantee the damage.

EX-upkicks and EX-shoulder will probably be the only effective use of meter in this match up, with the occasional EX-lunge for space control. Other uses may be to make some anti-focus attack lunge or random lunge safe. Saving meter for genei-jin is not recommended should the situation calls for you to use the meter but it’s not advised against it either, so it is up to your judgment to manage your meter in this match-up. If you’re not having trouble against his zoning game then by all mean save it for GJ.

However, you always need to be mindful of Ryu’s meter in this match-up, especially if he has two bars and an ultra. Bait him into wasting meter on ex-fireballs and dp-fadc to play safe, as without meter, Ryu cannot stop Yun’s onslaught of solid pressure without taking a big risk (esp if you have genei jin). Also, Ryu can punish a blocked light shoulder with his super so be mindful of that too.

On a final note, if you cannot anti-air Ryu with your light upkicks in this match-up then you lose. Honestly, you should be able to anti-air 90~100% of his jump-ins with the amount of focus you have on space in this match-up as well as your neutral jumping. If he’s knocking you out of the air with his forward jumping roundhouse (which has huge range, so beware), you’re neutral jumping too much so bait him into jumping at you.

-Character Specific Things
Get into the habit of finishing your combo with fst.lk xx h.upkicks whenever you have to finish the combo with fst.mp xx m.upkicks. The former does more damage in all cases. For example, after your command grab, do cr.mp, fst.lk xx h.upkicks rather than cr.mp, fst.mp xx m.upkicks.
On crouching Ryu:
Jab x, cr.mp, st.mp xx hk dp
Cr.mp x3, cr.mk xx mp lunge

[Spoiler=Avoid Reversals]After forward throw:

LP Shoulder, jump towards opponent, MK Dive Kick
early = whiff, lands in front (safe from 3f DP, forgot to test with Super but probably not)
late = hits their knees

Jump forward x2, MK Dive Kick
early = cross up or not depending on timing, combo-able but susceptible to DP
late = DPs whiff

dash forward, dash forward, cst.MP, jump over opponent
Slightly delayed LK Dive kick will cross them up and avoid reversals.
Slightly delayed MK Dive kick will cross them up and avoid reversals.
HK Dive kick at peak will not cross them up unless they crouch and will avoid reversals.

LP Lunge, fst.MP, jump towards opponent, MK Dive kick quickly to avoid reversals. Messing up the timing will make it blockable both ways and won’t avoid reversals.

Backdash, hp lunge, foward jump lk dive kick.
This will pretty much either stuff everything or avoid any wake up reversals, can use it pretty much as a safe jump.

After MK upkicks:

Empty neutral jump instead of coming down with something as you would a 4f reversal. Since it’s empty it will block against 3f reversal. You can also MK Dive kick from this neutral jump just before peak to sometimes cross them up but always avoid reversals

Other notes
After any kd, If you aim your lk dk precisely against the back of the head non-meaty you can actually beat dps or make them whiff. This won’t lead into a combo but is useful if you think your opponent is going to wake up dp and FADC.

Generally, you’re going to have to choose between set up or making dps whiff, you can’t have both, as most set ups that makes dp whiff are not combo-able afterwards should they not dp.[/details]

-Punishes
Unless Ryu does a meaty sweep on your wake up or as you land from being normal-anti-aired, his sweep will always be punishable by your EX-Shoulder at any range. At closer range however, you can punish with light lunge as well.
To really punish random hurricane kick, wait until he’s in range where the middle of your cr.mp would hit, then cross him up with m.shoulder into m.lunge as he lands.
His cr.mk xx fireball is not a true blockstring, and especially unsafe when done at the tip of his foot. Look to FADC through his canceled fireballs into jab, throw, or command grab.

-Misc.
Your neutral jump light dive kick can blow up his crouch tech (total of 16f) a lot of the times as well as his attempt at reversal-grab and combo off them, if not you’re clearly at advantage on hit so go for cr.lk to discourage any mashing of grab or lights.
When Ryu sweeps you, he gets an automatic safe-jump including your 4f EX-upkicks, and any good Ryu will option-select a safe sweep behind it so you have 0 option against Ryu’s safe jump after-sweep but block (Yes, sweep will not come out when you upkick, it’s a tight-option select). But if you see them walk forward after sweep to jump in, he’s most likely gonna go for a cross up with hurricane or regular cross up. This wont be meaty so see if you can non-reversal auto-correct light upkick or better yet just fadc-out.[/details]

Sakura

[details=Spoiler]**-Match-Up Analysis by IdLikeSumPoundCake
This is a 5.5-4.5 match-up in Yun’s favor, in which he controls the pace of the match. If you play the match-up right, Sakura cannot really play her usual bull-dog rush down game without taking great risks. The only reason why this match-up is not worse for Sakura is because of her retarded damage output, other than that, you should really have no fear going up against Sakura.

Yun generally has the freedom of space in this match-up, as the only tool she has to put pressure on Yun far screen is her shitty fire ball which you should always be ready to shoulder through on reaction (EX or strong). So feel her out first and see what type of Sakura she is and go from there.The best place to be against her is the mid range, just outside her pokes. The only tool she has mid-range against Yun is her st.roundhouse and cr.forward, and if you know how to deal with Ryu’s low forward, you should have zero trouble with her cr.forward footsie which is not that great at all, and her st.roundhouse will get blown up by your own st.roundhouse or reaction fst.mp into shoulder or TC (practice this). Basically, think of her mid-game like a shittier version of Ryu’s. Once Sakura learns she can’t footsie with Yun without getting stuffed by Yun’s normals or dive kicks, she’ll start using other strategies. Read my match-up analysis against Ryu to get a rough grasp of neutral game vs her. Basically, she will get destroyed playing this sort of game against Yun and she will HAVE to resort to the following strategies to get in her own offense. Sakura cannot play defense forever in this match-up or she will lose every single time.

The only way she sets up offense in this match-up is by way of walk-up st.jab spam, focus spam, random hard tatsumaki, and variable jump ins, with neutral jumps thrown in here and there to prevent you from dive kicking. If you see her walking forward, assume she’s going to do one of those mentioned above (especially the first 2), but assuming you know how to Yun correctly, you have answers to all these variables.

She can’t regular jump at you, that’s a given. And if you let such dangerous close-up fighter like Sakura get in for free with a jump-in, you’re gonna lose unless you commit big to a reversal. Generally speaking, what separates top Sakura players from decent-mediocre Sakura players to just flat-out frauds is their reliance on jump-ins. You’d be surprised just how many Sakura players (up in the high 3000pps online) gets thrown off and not know what to do once they can’t jump in for free. However, she does have the ability to change her air trajectory with her tatsus. Unless she jumps so close to you that it’s going to cross up, your upkicks will anti-air them just fine, if not, just go for cr.forward xx special to lower your hitbox and hit her as she lands, as her air tatsu does not have the ability to hit lowered-hitbox moves.

Counter her jab pressure from mid range with your cr.forward or your own pokes, and deal with her focus attacks with TC or lunge, you know, the usual counter to focus attacks. But if you’re afraid of these tools, just neutral jump, it is a great tool to stay your ground and assess the situation and pattern.** Most Sakuras will resort to spamming her Focus attacks** when they’re frustrated and are trying to get in, so be ware of sticking out your roundhouse and focus on countering her focus attack with your TC, lunge punch, or neutral jumping. The last option is by far the safest imo, and the only way she can get you after she has committed to a FA is by forward dash cancelling into her cr. fierce (i usually just upkick if i get proactive/aggressively anti-aired like that. Proactive/aggressive anti air such as this usually means they want to attack, so don’t be afraid to hard upkick after you get anti aired out of your neutral jump, or just back dash)

A character-specific way of getting in that Sakura utilizes that I should mention, is her hard tatsu, which your fst.roundhouse will stuff.

She has no real unusual way to really fight against Yun, and abusing this mid-range is where you will shine against her and net the most reward off the least risks. Furthermore, she has no wake-up game without meter (and even if she does it’s not that great), so abuse her on knock down like no other but be precise.

All in all, she can’t really stop you from playing your game too much. However, precision is the key here. You can’t afford to be slappy with your dive kicks and set ups as Sakura relies on heavily of mashing of her jabs and fierce (4 frames) to get damage and turn the game around. If you take this tool away effectively, she virtually has no chance to do damage except relying on her mix-ups after taking risks to get in.

Furthermore, you have the freedom to meter manage to your liking as well, as she doesn’t really force you to burn meter on one particular situation. If you’re going to use them aside from Genei-jin, I suggest you save up for ex-up kicks to counter her jump-in roundhouse which has a dumb range and an angle, so for those of you that are not used to that jump in will get dividends off using ex-upkicks to counter that. However, it should be noted that you may want to use it on cancelling random-lunges to counter-act focus-attack spamming while walking-forward Sakuras, which is what i found myself most using it on. If you can effectively stop her from using her focus attack strategies to get in, you will most likely win the match every time.

You should be alarmed, however, once she manages to get in. Any offense she gets going while close to you will be in her favor just by the sheer raw damage she puts out. So be weary of her close game and respect it. Her character-specific tool once she gets in is her tatsu-loop. Note that her light tatsu on block is 0, so hitting your cr.jab afterwards is not a bad idea. However, her ex-tatsu on block is +4 so don’t press a button afterwards, block or backdash into safety.

Her gameplan will revolve around landing her ex-tatsu to into her mix ups. It’s like a ghetto version of Abel’s left or right mix-ups that does just as much damage (or more) and perhaps more stun without the hard knock down. Like against Abel’s mix ups, there’s nothing you can do but guess in this situation against a Sakura who knows her resets.

Knowing this though, you should always test her execution ability and make her respect your upkicks. About 90% of Sakuras I meet pretends Upkicks are not there and just chugs away with her tatsu loop and resets and multiple 1-frame link combos, so don’t be afraid to test their execution and oki with upkicks.

All in all, it’s a pretty straight forward match in which you shouldn’t have much problem. Her game is not to be respected until she gets close so abuse her from mid range and jump on her once you get the knock down, but also remember to be precise with your approach, or she’ll reverse jab hit you all day into 300~400 dmg combos on YOUR offense. Make sure she knows you have a dp and pretty soon you’ll find that you control the pace in this match-up which should make you feel comfortable going in.

Lastly, she has a lot of ambiguous cross ups and sets ups after her hard knockdowns and Sakura otoshi (2nd hit, 3rd whiff), the best way to get out I found is heavy upkick out as her option select without meter or ultra will just be her light or strong dp. It’s best that you take that option select damage and get out of the corner than get hit by a full jump in into a 400+ dmg combo. If you don’t want to commit to that, then just guess and block, or back dash or focus cancel dash.

-Character Specific Things
She’s one of those characters that heavy-upkicks will whiff under certain combo situations, such as after your command grab (Most of you guys will know what I’m talking about). So be mindful of those situations and use fst.mp xx strong upkicks or fst.lk xx heavy upkicks instead; the ladder being the most recommended for most cases. See Ryu’s CST for reference, it should be the exact same thing applied to Sakura.

-Punishes
Nothing in particular. Her light tatsu on block is 0, and the rest is -3, -2, and +4 (med, heavy, ex, respectively). However, her roundhouse tatsu on block at -2 sometimes leave her at a range where your jabs will not reach, so try fst.lk to keep her immobile and press your advantage after that. Never let her roundhouse on block go “unpunished,” as you can use this to swing the momentum in your favor. This is a great strategy to have to stop her momentum so you can start your own.

-Misc.
None ATM[/details]


#3

Zangief

[details=Spoiler]-Match-Up Analysis
Contrary to popular belief, I feel that this is a 5-5 match-up that may VERY SLIGHTLY be in Zangief’s favor. Before beginning the break down, I would like to say that this match up was NEVER in Zangief’s favor back in Vanilla AE. At first, yes, Zangief is perceived to beat any in-your-face rush down characters, because of how dangerous he is at close range. It also didn’t help that Yun was so powerful and his rush down gameplay was so effective in vanilla ae that most people did not want to adjust their gameplay and got destroyed by gief.

However, towards the end of AE, many top Zangief players and Yun players found that this match-up is not bad at all for Yun. In fact, given the time for the game to mature, this match-up would definitely have been in Yun’s favor. And the nerfs did little to change the essence of this match-up, and just like vs Abel, damage is about the only factor that changed this match-up from being in Yun’s favor to about even ground.

The reason why this match-up hasn’t changed despite Yun’s nerfs is because the only nerfs that really changed Yun’s abusive gameplay does not factor into this match-up when played correctly. In other words, Yun’s nerfs to his dive kicks and command grabs does not really factor into this match-up because these tools were not the right ones to use against Zangief. Not then, not now.

However, before breaking down how the match-up is SUPPOSED to be played, I feel that it’s necessary to dig into stopping scrubby Zangief techniques so that you CAN play the match-up as it’s meant to be played.

[Spoiler=Dealing with Zangief’s Gimmicks]If Zangief is gimmicking you or jumping in on you, you’re not playing the match-up right. There’s a reason why top Zangief players very rarely do these kind of things, it’s because it should and does not work as it’s super easy to counter. These said gimmicks mainly consist of whiffing moves into command grabs.

These are the moves he will use to gimmick you: fst.hk, cr.mk, cr.hk, crforward.hk, and finally, his green hand. Note, that these moves are pretty horrible. They have slow start up, okay actives, and MASSIVE recovery, and to top it off, are never advantageous on block. Zangief players aren’t looking for these moves to hit or even block when they do it, they want them to whiff (which is why it’s so gimmicky and bad) just in front of you so they get you with their command grab. Moreover, this is just their back-up plan, as their first line of scrub/gimmick techniques is jumping in like mad-men.

This horrible strategy is solved by one magic button: your fst.mp. It will solve all your problems even if you’re a novice player who can’t AA with light upkicks. All you need to do to counter this horrendous strategy is to pretty much walk back and forth in-and-out of the following ranges and look for punishing it with your fst.mp into TC4.

If you’re at mid-screen, the only way Zangief can hit or gimmick you is with his green hand. Bait the whiff and punish it with TC4 and build meter with palm, and the most beautiful thing about it is that even if the green hand HITS you, it’s punishable! (unless it’s ex) so even if he catches you really off-guard and hits you with it, punish it with cr.lp into your hit-confirm combo. Besides, even if you time it wrong, it’ll certainly hit him out of his command grab attempt, so the worst thing that can possibly happen if it hits you is his EX-command grab which will only get you if you fail to punish a HIT green hand. If it’s blocked or whiffed, never let it go unpunished.

Once he learns that he can’t be whiffing that against you, he’ll move up to be in range for his jumping hp and his fst.hk. Bait these moves too and act accordingly. If you stay at this range where his fst.hk whiffs your fst.mp will solve everything. His whiffed fst.hk is ridiculously easy to whiff punish on reaction and his jump-ins become a lot easier to handle because that’s the only other move he can do to get in on you. Punish his jump in with light upkicks and if you wanna play more safe against another of his gimmick, aka jumping knee-drop whiff into light command grab, use fst.mp to anti-air. This is also the range where his crouching-forward.hk will hit, but it’s ridiculously slow so you should move out of the way or block on time purely on reaction.

As for the remaining two moves, his cr.hk and cr.mk, these moves are just outside of his best known poke (fst.mp) so bait these by staying outside of his fst.mp and act accordingly. Note that the closer you get the more gimmick options you have to think about (fst.hk, jump-in, random green-hand, etc) so always have your fst.mp ready to go.[/details]

Now that you can deal with his gimmicks, it’s time to deal with Zangiefs that actually think while playing and know the match-up.

When stripped of low-level gimmicks, all of Zangief’s match-ups become a footsie match. Yun is no exception.

It’s hard to say who is the definite aggressor in this match-up as each Yuns and Zangiefs have their respective styles based upon their knowledge and previous experience, especially in such a volatile match-up. However, I feel that Zangief has to take more unnecessary gambles and guesses to be the aggressor in this match up, especially if he is without meter. On the other hand, Yun has the tools to be in the footsie pocket with Gief and have the tools to pressure Zangief into the corner, so there is no reason for you to back down from Zangief unless you have a huge life-lead and would prefer to give them just enough rope to hang themselves.

Although with Yun’s good walkspeed and overall mobility should net him the freedom of space control and engagement in this match-up, I found that it’s best to get in Zangief’s face quickly instead of starting the match with palms to build meter while giving Zangief valuable space and meter of his own.

When Zangief is without meter, you almost have completely free pressure with your shoulder. If Zangief tries to lariat you in between your fst.mp xx light shoulder, the worst possible thing that can happen to you is a trade with his lariat (his regular SPD will get hit out of it clean). But in my experience and lab testing, the odds are tremendously in your favor to counter-hit him out of his lariat. You will counter-hit his lariat with kicks every time and will counter-hit his lariat with punches most of the time. Moreover, Zangiefs will rarely try to lariat you in between once they get it stuffed once or twice. It’s a good tool to really put Gief on notice when he does not have a meter. Pressure him into jumping or doing some cheap gimmicks by abusing this tactic when he has no meter.

However, once he has that meter to EX-SPD and/or EX-Green hand, you need to play a legitimate footsie game.

Surprisingly, your fst.mp will not be the go-to poke in this match-up. The best poking tool Yun has in this match-up is his fst.mk. It has very good horizontal range and because of Zangief’s wide hitbox, you will keep him at bay with this move even if he’s crouching. This has further range than his fst.mp so you should be able to keep him from advancing toward you with this move. He cannot whiff punish this with his fst.lk xx EX-Green hand so the only way he can be aggressive towards you during footsie is by jumping in or random EX-Green handing in. However, there will be times when his fst.mp will stuff your fst.mk and he will use this advantage to press forward while spamming his fst.mp. Fortunately for you, Yun has a tool that will stop both his onslaught of fst.mp and his jump-in once he has broken through your fst.mk: his crouching medium punch.

Once he’s stuffed your fst.mk and is advancing towards you while spamming his fst.mp, your fst.mk will get beat if you’re within his fst.mp range due to the start-up difference in your pokes (your fst.mk is slower by 2 frames, 4f start up vs 6f), your job then is to create space between you two by backing up while spamming your cr.mp buffered into a light or a medium lunge. The buffered lunge should cover if not give you more grounds you lost by being backed up, all the while giving you the option of completely resetting the poking space between you two to your advantage (tip of your fst.mk).

However, most Giefs will not just fst.mp you all day long once he starts to connect with his fst.mp. They will for sure jump in at you, mostly with his medium kick and hard punch. Good news is that your cr.mp will completely beat his jumping medium kick at almost any range, as well as mostly beating or, at worst, trading with all of his other jump normals except his jumping hard punch. His jumping hard punch vs your cr.mp can end in all three ways. Either of you can stuff the other, or it can trade, so try not to rely on this as your anti-air too much, although it may be the best option if Zangief chose Ultra 2 for your anti-air up kicks.

Sometimes though, especially if Zangief has meter, it may be in your best interest to back up, create some space, and stockpile some meter of your own with palms. Zangief’s meter usage is pretty straight forward. He’s going to be using it on EX-Green hand, EX-SPD, and FADC on his EX-Green hand.

Although Genei-Jin is really good to have in any match-ups, I feel this one you should use your meter on EX-Upkicks and Ex-Lunge. EX-Up kicks damage, and its light lunge follow-up and EX-Lunge to create space between you and the corner and cornering Zangief into it. If Zangief gets hit by EX-Lunge he’ll be that much closer to the corner, while if he blocks it, it becomes a guessing game. Good thing is that your heavy-up kicks will beat everything he does (SPD, regular grab, normals, backdash) and trade or even BEAT his lariat, thanks to ex-lunge’s “nerf” (in ae lariat always traded with your heavy upkicks after he blocked your ex-lunge). However, obviously if he blocks, you’re in for some pain, but this was no different in Vanilla. If you want to play safe though, your back dash will keep you safe from everything but EX-Green hand and lariat, in which if you get hit by the latter, will just reset the situation.

Once you have Zangief in the corner, start using your fst.hk. It will beat, trade, or get stuffed like many of your pokes vs Gief but unlike the poking game in mid-screen, this one will be in your favor in a war of attrition. If your fst.hk hits or trades you can light-lunge for 200 dmg, and if you have the ultra, it will connect for free as well.

Never let your guard down however, even if you corner Zangief and have a tremendous life-lead, because Zangief is designed to explode and quickly make comeback to end the match with very few right guesses, and Yun is one of these characters he can comeback against very easily because of his low health. The best thing to do if Zangief swept you and you have the life lead is to FADC-backdash his cross-up body-splash. The worst you’ll eat is absorbing his body splash damage into white-health and getting hit by his cr.short afterwards. And just like vs Abel, when Zangief is on his offense, make him work for it by abusing your back dash on wake up or during his blockstrings. He should not be able to cross you up or jump in at you except after his sweep and Atomic Suplex (close kick-spd). Vary your responses to his mix-ups by mixing blocking, blocking then back dashing, just back dashing, fadc-backdashng, up-kicks, mashing, and etc, etc. Just don’t sit there and let him get free pressure on you. Always be on the move (though blocking may be the best option in a lot of the cases, lol former Cody player speaking)

Overall, this is a battle of your fst.mk, fst.mp, cr.mp, and sometimes cr.mk vs his fst.mp and fst.mk. No one button from either of you will come out on top every time so keep this in mind and always be on point with your anti-air and look to corner Zangief.

Btw, feel free to mix-it up by dive kicking and jumping at him (I would rather just dive kick to mix it up rather than regular jump in because top-Zangiefs will never fall for a regular jump-in). Just playing footsie will just make your gameplay obvious. Although, you should be able to count how many times you jumped at him on your hand in a given round.

-Character Specific Things
You can combo into your Ultra 1 after your Command grab by st.lp xx light upkicks.

By Neiburo

Spoiler

Safe jumps

Fwd throw, fwd dash x2, st.lp, n.j.mk
Loses to ex spd

Fwd throw, fwd dash x2, st.lk, n.j.mp
Trades with p lariat

Fwd throw, fwd dash, cr.hp, fwd j.hp
Trades with p lariat

Fwd throw, mp shoulder, st.lk, fwd j.mp
Just a well spaces jumpin that beats all reversals

Mk dp quickst n.j.mk
Loses to ex spd

Hp dp quickst n.j.mk
Trades with lariat

Mp lunge quickst n.j.mk
Loses to ex green

Combos
Standing
Jab x2, cr.mk xx lk dp, mp lunge or U1, ex shoulder
Jab x2, cr.mp, st.mp xx hk dp
Cr.mp, st.lp, cr.mk xx lk dp,mp lunge or U1, ex shoulder
Cr.mp x2, st.mp xx hk dp

Crouching
Jab x2, cr.mp, st.mp xx hk dp[/details]

-Punishes
All normal green hands are punishable on hit and block. If blocked, Ex included, you should be able to easily time a punish starting with cr.mp. When hit, try to punish with jab, the timing is a bit tighter.
When you see a lariat from mid screen or closer, you can punish with fst.mp xx whatever (preferably upkicks). He makes different sounds when he does his two different types of lariat so learn the timing on them and learn to punish the lariats, never let it go unpunished.

-Misc.
If you bait any of his command grab with a neutral jump, your neutral jump fierce and roundhouse will whiff when you come down as Zangief’s head will be crouched down from his whiffed grab animation. Always come down with your medium kick, it has enough hitstun for you to do ultra 1 afterwards as well.
The use of EX-Lunge against Gief discussed above in the breakdown should be taken with caution once he has Ultra 1 or Super. If he has either, you no longer can just throw them out close range. Space them if he has those, as he can punish your -1 on block with his Ultra and Super.


#4

So this is what I got for Abel.

Safe jumps:
Fwd throw, fwd dash x2, st.lk, n.j.mk
Loses to lp super.

Mk dp quickst,n.j.mk
Loses to ex TT

Mk dp no quickst, n.j.mk, st.lk , n.j.mk
Loses to ex TT

Hk dp quickst, n.j.mk
Loses to lp super

Hk dp no quickst, n.j.mk, st.lk, n.j.mk
Loses to lp super

Combos:
On standing
Cr.lp, st. lp, cr.mp x2, st.mp xx mk dp
Cr.lp, st. lp, st.lp/cr.mp, cr.mk xx lk dp, mp lunge or U1, ex shoulder
Cr. mp x3, st mp xx mk dp
Cr.mp x2, cr.mk xx lk dp, mp lunge or U1, ex shoulder

On crouching
Cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mp, st.mp xx hk dp
Cr.mp x3, st.mp xx mp lunge

Post cmd grab
Cr.mp x2, st.mp xx mk dp
Cr.mp, cr.mk xx lk dp, mp lunge or U1, ex shoulder

Post lp shoulder
On hit you can press st.hk and beat everything but ex COD.
On block your hk will get beat by ex COD and early timed sweep. N.j. Hk dk beats both ex COD and sweep though.


#5

I feel like things like safe jumps, unless they’re crucial to the match-up, should be in for another thread as those types of safe jumps work on such variety of cast, as well as post lp shoulder follow-ups. I think those two things are very basic knowledge of Yun which should be in like a reference thread and we should keep the match-up thread limited to specific match-up knowledge such as your combos to avoid cluster of too much general information. But if anyone’s inclined to put in this hard work like you I will gladly add it in. Thanks for the contribution! The match-up for Zangief should be up by end of today, in which I hope will spark a discussion because I feel like this is an even match up or close to it contrary to what many Yun players believe.


#6

I guess you’re right. I got so many combos and setups I don’t know what to do with them. I’ll just share my combos from now on. Looking forward to that Gief write-up!


#7

actually, do as you will. it’s no problem to make a spoiler section for your contributions for each match up. The more we have at one place the better ya. i’ll do the organizing so no worries about clusterfuck of information.

EDIT: wow, i should’ve reserved a LOT more posts, because I couldn’t put Abel and Gief together… shit… and i’ve yet to add his CST, punishes, and Misc.


#8

Oh, considering there are 39(?) chars in the game you might want to perhaps link to doc files or something similar. Other MU threads are perhaps 2-4 post long with basic crap like “you can punish x with y” so these writeups aren’t going to fit in that standard format. Otherwise if you want more posts I could delete mine and give you 3 posts you can reserve.


#9

maybe i’m going too in-depth. but isn’t that the point of mu threads? “you can punish x with y” anyone can figure out =/

feel like im the only one that’s gonna do this type of write up lololol.

but some characters analysis will be very short. like vs Ryu, Ken, and Akuma. I can summarize those in less than half of the zangief and abel length.


#10

depth is good, can just edit the initial post to point to posts in the thread to solve space problem


#11

this is a good idea!

I’ll post some Gief stuff later.


#12

wats dat mean?


#13

make a post whenever, then edit the opening post with a link to it


#14

ahhh. smart. thanks


#15

Gief stuff

Safe jumps

Fwd throw, fwd dash x2, st.lp, n.j.mk
Loses to ex spd

Fwd throw, fwd dash x2, st.lk, n.j.mp
Trades with p lariat

Fwd throw, fwd dash, cr.hp, fwd j.hp
Trades with p lariat

Fwd throw, mp shoulder, st.lk, fwd j.mp
Just a well spaces jumpin that beats all reversals

Mk dp quickst n.j.mk
Loses to ex spd

Hp dp quickst n.j.mk
Trades with lariat

Mp lunge quickst n.j.mk
Loses to ex green

Combos
Standing
Jab x2, cr.mk xx lk dp, mp lunge or U1, ex shoulder
Jab x2, cr.mp, st.mp xx hk dp
Cr.mp, st.lp, cr.mk xx lk dp,mp lunge or U1, ex shoulder
Cr.mp x2, st.mp xx hk dp

Crouching
Jab x2, cr.mp, st.mp xx hk dp

Other notes
Well spaced hk dk is a good way of attacking Gief. If you ever attack just use chains, after 2-3 chains n.j.hp beats lariat mash. Be careful with using ex lunge if your opponent has U1, only space it from max range! Also st.hk is a good normal with pretty high reward as it pushes Gief far.


#16

After tenshin st lp xx lk upkicks into ultra works on zangief


#17

pulled from another thread (can’t remember where but it’s on here somewhere!)


#18

Yeah some of those dont work anymore ill test later i know for sure the sakura ones dont work anymore

Updated

U1 after command grab:

st.lp, lk dp: zangief, hakan
st.lp, lk, lk dp: boxer
cr mp, lk dp: boxer
cr.lk, lk dp: claw, rufus
cr.mp, st.mp, lk dp: viper, rose
cr.mp, cr.mk, lk dp: abel
cr.mk, lk dp: cammy

U1 after command grab (put yourself) in corner:

st.lp, lk dp: zangief
cr.lk, lk dp: rufus
cr.mp, lk dp: boxer
cr.mp, st.mp, lk dp: viper, rose
cr.mp, cr.mk, lk dp: abel
cr.mk: cammy

Theres probably new setups because of the nerfs to find.


#19

kk. CST, punishes, and misc including you guys’ input should be up by today.

I’m gonna cover Ryu and Ken next. Guys wanna start discussing the match up vs those two? I’ll start, i think Ryu is in favor against Yun, 6-4… Ken i think is even. The match ups can be worked on hardcore since they are very straight-forward match-ups and not to mention the abundance of Ryus and Kens so you can make it as close as 5.5-4.5 vs Ryu imo.

I know the match ups pretty well but one thing that annoys the fuck outta me to this day is the fact that it’s hard to connect light lunge after our fst.hk in the corner after a hit or blocked shoulder. god damn. I can’t tell you how many times I could’ve won had I gotten those extra damages, not to mention how many times i’ve lost a game cuz i couldn’t hit the ultra afterwards too.

EDIT: Zangief is all done, let me know if anything is to be added.


#20

I’m sitting on my phone so its hard to write long posts and post links. There’s no real evidence that Yun struggles with Ken or Ryu. There’s footage of Kaz vs Naruo sets that are pretty even, Daigo beating Kaz convincingly at the Taito Station tourney and Kaz beating Dakou at EVO.

According to the tierlist thread Yun has a disadvantage against Ken because of his Stepkick. I personally do feel that Ken has the upper hand on the ground which in turn forces Yun to jump. Shoto st.lk is a perfect tool against divekicks and if the dk is delayed you could input dp to catch Yun anyway. Yun st.hk beats Shoto cr.mk if spaced well and Ken’s Stepkick has quite a bit of startup so it can be stuffed by st.mp. There’s a certain range where Yun can neutral jump to beat Stepkick and Ken’s dp doesnt reach. From that range Yun can also do a regular jumpin which can counter Shoto st.lk. Its also worth noting that Ken’s fireball is worse than Ryu’s so getting past them with shoulder is easier.

Ryu has a worse ground game than Ken but can keep Yun out. Ex shoulder has a short range and mp shoulder has such a long startup that they aren’t that great against Ryu’s fireballs. Both shoulders are also unsafe on block which forces Yun to use them sparingly or waste meter to make them safe. According to superlollo(I think) the Yun nerfs made it harder to hit Ryu while he does cr.mk.

In my opinion both matches are winnable to the degree that I think the matchups are even but I’m hardly the best Yun player lol.
Oh after fwd throw; fwd jump x2, delayed mk dk. This makes dp whiff and crosses up if done correctly. After conditioning Ryu/Ken to block the dk after fwd throw you can go for fwd jump x2 empty jump cr.lk. Kaz does this and also does empty jump after mk upkicks which makes Yun block in time and go for cr.lk or alternatively go for j.mk(which loses to dp though).

Edit: Use ex upkicks after st.hk in the corner instead of doing lp lunge. It’s a lot more consistent.