But he said it wouldn’t work on Ryu and you can get 3 hits with a juggle Super in the corner on Ryu.
i’m going through all of the characters, he means you get the final punch in. With Ryu the most hits you can get is 3 with KPKKW (whiff). But with Guile you get 3 hits and then the final so KKKWP.
(at least with Ryu and Guile)
Ok cool then.
It’s always good to know how to juggle for maximum damage.
Balrog U1 for Maximum Damage
In the majority of situations, doing PPKKK will safely catch opponents for maximum Ultra damage. This includes instances when the opponent is in the corner, or if you realize Ultra 1 was started too early. In some cases, such as if you realize you started Ultra 1 too late, doing KPKKK compensates for the mistake.
However, there are times when every tiny bit of extra damage makes a difference in the result of a match, and learning how to do Balrog’s Ultra for maximal damage can pull the odds in your favor. Keep in mind that, like all greater damage combos, there is a risk/reward factor to take into consideration. The risk is that doing an unconventional Ultra sequence can be unsafe, but the reward is that it can net you an extra 53 damage.
Balrog Ultra 1 Combos with KKKKK (character-specific for maximum damage [YES = 3 hits in the TAP])
Test: Punish with c.jab, c.strong xx fierce headbutt, Ultra 1 (KKKKK) on a STANDING opponent
Unless stated otherwise, the Ultra is done at Balrog’s head level. If their ass in visible in the animation, that is the correct height.
Certain Ultra Conditions
*last K will do three hits only if the opponent reaches the corner right at the end of Balrog’s U1. Start distance ~1 square box away from the midline in the danger room
**U1 must be executed earlier (whole character’s body above balrog’s head) otherwise the fourth rush punch hits and the last RU whiffs
***U1 must be done extremely early. easier to do with 1-frame faster trick
**Highlighted in Red **are those characters who are safest to use KKKKK against.
Highlights in Blue indicate you should use KKKKK against that character in the corner only. It may also work midscreen if you do an early ultra.
Abel YES, YES
Adon NO (KKKKK lets the 3rd RU whiff and hits twice on the TAP), NO
Akuma YES, NO
Blanka YES** (do it above head level), YES (do it below head level)
Balrog NO, NO
Cammy YES, YES
Chun-Li YES, NO
Cody YES, NO
C.Viper YES, YES
Dan YES**, NO
Deejay YES, NO
Dhalsim YES, NO
Dudley YES, NO
E Honda POSSIBLE*, NO
El Fuerte YES, NO
Fei Long YES, NO
Gen YES, NO
Gouken YES, NO
Guile NO (But Guile can be juggled with every single hit of the U1 except the 3rd hit of the TAP), YES
Guy NO, NO
Hakan YES, YES
Juri YES, NO
Ibuki YES, NO
Ken YES**, NO
Makoto YES, NO
M.Bison YES, NO
Rufus YES**, YES
Ryu YES**, NO
Rose YES, YES
Sagat YES**, YES
Sakura YES, YES
Seth YES, NO
T-Hawk YES**, NO
Vega YES, NO
Zangief YES, NO
Good shit Andy.
good stuff sir!
Onto matchups, going to just run down the list, I have some info on the Cammy and C. Viper, but i still have a couple of punishes to test and some ideas to try out in training. Anyone have experiences with C. Viper they’d like to share?
Updated Cammy Matchup, found that I don’t have that much text to work with in the posts so i’m slimming down a lot of them and will just post random specific finds in posts afterward and link to them from the original post. But there will be cliffs!
Punishing Cammy’s Moveset
Can Ultra/Super/hb/cr.hp on reaction
Slicer (slide kick) is not punishable on block, Ultra will lose if you do it too late and it’ll most likely juggle before it hits full grounded. (First set of hits will whiff)
The throw only hits airborne and if you’re standing, if you’re not in range she will cancel the hooligan combo. She has recovery frames once she lands which is punishable by jab into anything.
Ex version tracks and can land on the other side of you, can be auto-corrected ultra/super.
Unpunishable on block, breaks armor and hits twice
Has full body invincibility on startup, but isn’t considered airborne through the remainder of the animation.
Can be punished on reaction by ultra/super and can be thrown between the point where she hits the ground and starts to attack.
Highly negative on block, but this is distance dependent. Point blank on block it can be punished easily by ultra/super. But usually as long as she’s at least an ankle into your hatbox you can punish by jab into anything.
EX.DS and EX.DL (UKD) will win against it.
Her DP has a huge hatbox and is a decent AA
Beware of its use in block strings since it only has a 5-frame SU
Punishing is different: Punish with ultra w/o reversal timing for full grounded, CS xx FADC backdash is completely safe (20-frame backdash).
is unpunishable on block
frame advantage depends on how low she hits you
can cross up in very specific situations, most of the time it’s never a cross-up, although she can hit in front and land behind.
Can be hit by hp.hb and cr.hp on reaction if done in the air.
I have a mistake on my OH follow up list. You can c.lk HB and c.mp HB on a crouching Guy and c.mp HB only on a standing Guy. Timing may be a bit different for the c.lk xx HB but it’s possible.
Updated C. Viper MU
Since I don’t have a console near me at the moment, this is theory as far as how her super jumps cancels and feints work. From neutral she can do a tk/sh and cancel it into neutral, but she can only super jump cancel on hit or block (in the case of the sh). She can HOWEVER, do a sh cancel (feint) and then super jump immediately afterward, the difference being that you’re not in blockstun.
More C. Viper Finds
Burning Kick (Ground/Air) [L:-2/D M:-1/D H:0/D EX:-12/D] [L:+6/D M:+4/D H:+2/D EX:+2/D]
If spaced properly, burning kick can be beat on reaction with headbutt and cr.hp
TAP can avoid burning kick, this is especially useful for getting out of the corner with cross-up burning kicks.
[*]Under certain situations viper’s bk can be punished with a dash under Ultra. (Still requires some research for when you can use this tactic)
Burning kicks can cross-up as the animation has a lot going on so its hard to discern where her foot is an tell whether or not its a cross-up. Keep in mind they DO NOT break armor so they can be focus absorbed/EX dashed at will.
EX.bk hits multiple times, has invincibility frames and has a similar arc to hk.bk.
[*]viper can combo into Ultra 1 after a bk if the situation permits.
Thunder Knuckle [L:-2/0 M:-1/+1 H:-22/D EX:-5 ]
All of the tks can be blocked high and all break armor.
lp.tk has a hurtbox that goes low, mp.tk has a hurtbox that’s her standing, neither of these can be punished on block. cr.mk xx lp/mp.tk is a common block string/method of closing distance.
Balrog can punish inbetween the cancel with super/ultra no matter the distance.
hp.tk is like a dragon punch, it has an upward angle, has some invincibility. This is her main AA, along with ex.seismo.
ex.tk can do some interesting things since it covers about 3/4 screen, it’s a lot like Bisons PC if she hits you and you block. It’s punishable but is very distance dependent.
lp.tk is REALLY low to the ground, it can stuff headbutts and avoid dash punches (It can go under fireballs).
Seismo Hammer [L\H\H:-18 EX:-2]
These attacks all have the same frame data, and put you in a decent amount of blockstun (and cause chip damage). On hit these will cause you to be launched and she can follow up with a super jump cancel and complete the combo.
All of these can be cleanly avoided with a TAP, but the catch is that she can cancel it and punish your TAP with whatever. She can also do a sh super-jump cancel, and then do another sh as a block string that causes chip damage.
[*]Viper can reversal U1 Balrogs U1 from neutral but it’ll lose at certain distances because of the initial shock. She can be hit if the initial shock is avoided all together.
ex.seismo is not quite an AA. Viper’s main means of controlling air is hp tk and neutral jump hk.
HP Tk on trade can be followed up with dash, then another tk or U1. HP tk is throwable on startup, however.
Seismo chains are not true blockstrings, with the exception of seismo->ex seismo. (probably ex.seismo->ex.seismo too) Meaning they can be jumped inbetween. Be careful though if you try to jump between seismo->ex seismo you will get hit.
There are three main types Burning Kick (BK). Grounded BK, instant air BK, and instant super jump BK.
Grounded BK are useless for the most part except LK BK which beats tick throws if they mash it when she is being put in a blockstring.
Instant air BK is a BK done using a tiger knee motion. MK and HK instant air BK, when done in point blank range, can cross up. If you see a Viper stand right next to you after a knockdown then do a BK and cross you up, it’s this one.
Instant super jump BK is the one where she fly across the screen with a BK. It’s the same as instant air BK except the jump is a super jump. This can also cross up at the right range.
After a Viper forward throw you, if she super jump right away, her only option is a HK BK mid air which cross ups.
If she dashes before super jumping, she is most likely going for a safe jump with HK, but she can also cross up with (I believe) strong xx BK.
Edit: Also, [media=youtube]hwKcgOQsk0s[/media] lol
That’s crazy (the vid), burning a whole lot of meter, hella stylish though. Any ideas as far as dealing with grounded tk pressure? outside of the range where it will whiff?
mr enigmatic i dont know how you think you are qualified to make a character match up thread where A some of the info is just wrong and B ur boxer is actually one of the scrubbiest and most random ive seen! your balrog gameplay consists of random full screen TAPS into headbutt, obvious overheads and everything else that comes with being a scrubby ass balrog.Why do you think you have the right to give thousands of people matchup advice when you yourself are horrible at this game. This balrog section is filled with people that love to play theory fighter all day instead of actual street fighter
FYI you don’t have to have a “tournament class” Balrog to make a matchup thread. You didn’t decide to to a matchup thread. IF some information is wrong, please note (you haven’t). Most of the punishes i list I have videos of. If it’s a strategy you don’t agree with, then that’s debatable.
Please make a more useful post next time
Psycho Dictator’s sodium levels are rising
word. Here’s some stuff most already know… or not.
[*]cr. HP + LP + LK.
Works well against dive kick characters like Rufus, Cammy, other characters that throw or instant air stuff on wakeup or during blockstrings. Hits them if they jump/dive kick and techs if they throw on wakeup/during string. Can be punished after they read it by simply walking back / blocking so use it wisely. This even works on Hazanshu if done during right timing -credit thxyoutoo.
Some limitations, though I still find it very useful against the dive-kick happy spammers. Also think how dive-kick happy AE Yuns and Yangs will be
[*]cr. LP, cr. LP + HK
Everyone should know this one. Jav1ts’ great explanation:
[*]Meaty cr. LP or cr. MK + B, F, B, F + PPP/KKK
Ultra their (looking at you Chun + Rose) backdash. Make sure you input that ultra fast or it’s going to come out after a block or even a hit your normal.
[*]Hold three PPP/KKK in air, after late jump in RH/FK, immediately release PPP/KKK.
This works on Akuma and other characters with a teleport as well. In certain situations I believe it even saves you from some specials, like the EX Scissors mentioned below.
[*]Against C.Viper’s Wakeup: Meaty crouching jab, back+standing short+standing fierce. Jav1ts’ special creation:
[*]Explanation of why OS Sweep will often work on Abel but more importantly the options Abel has once he is knocked down that are in your favor.
Understanding this helps immensely in this matchup and probably belongs even more under the Abel Matchup section.
[*]st. MK or cr. MK buffered into super (quickly b, f, b, f + p/k).
If either hit connects, super will come out. Both normals are only super cancellable, so you don’t have to worry about some unsafe rush punch coming out if you don’t the meter or mis-input the super. This is useful in footsies when you stay outside the range of your opponent’s normals but in range to counter-poke your opponent if they stick out a limb (cr. MK has a deceivingly large hitbox) in which case the super comes out, if it whiffs it won’t. I haven’t personally pulled this off on a Chun but that’s one instance of footsie war where this would be extremely useful, especially if you’ve walked her into the corner (or anyone in a corner). This is also useful against armor-cancelling moves like against Abel’s EX CoD, Guy’s/Fuerte’s EX run, or Rog’s EX dash punches. An example of this by the great MagMan conveniently at time of occurance: [media=youtube]_n0fCuqUF38&t=2m15s"[/media]
Experimental / to be verified / impractical: I’ll think of some more that seem iffy later.
-Safejumps with either HP/RH generally get thrown by good players who are able to read it. After I safejump / empty jump i usually quickly press LP + LK + RH if they block it doesn’t come out and if they throw I tech and if they backdash I sweep. Is this misguided? Works for empty jumps but not safejumps? etc.
-Another weird example: I’ve done stuff like charge downback then tried to go back + tech to tech a throw, but went to upforward on accident. I’ll tech the throw still especially on wakeup, but if they jump a light headbutt comes out… (like on chun neutral jumping on wakeup). This may be misguided because if you predict them throwing headbutt usually beats it. Maybe I hit tech on the way up, like how you do standing jab/short into headbutt sometimes. Or maybe I’m plinking LP~LK so that I tech if thrown or heabutt if jump, or something. Further testing needed
Hope this helps with the OS section.
That’s what i’m tackling next, gotta finish up the block strings article. Since it seems a lot of the option-selects require a safe-jump OR a meaty jab, if you’re in training mode, how do you know/how do you set the dummy?
I know with meaty tape wake-up you have to set the dummy to no block since he auto-blocks if you do any meaty moves on wakeup.
Wonder if dafro got anywhere on that special abel O/S. I’ve got a list of O/S filed away and they’ll be added along with those, albeit much more concise.
If you’re asking what I think you are, you simply do what everyone (i.e. MagMan’s, Alioune’s vids) and test how most situational wakeup things are tested: you record the safejump as the dummy (rog) and do the wakeup reversal/dash/jump yourself (as say, ryu) after a throw or whatever the safejump/meaty setup is.
Is that it? I’m sure you’ve seen it before. All these are tested with that.
You can Headbutt a crouching Blanka after hitting them with cr. Strong. It’s my go to hit confirm in this matchup.
Note: If you have super don’t do this OS because if they block you will cancel into super.
Also, is there something on Guy?
I had no idea about the ex seismo OS Im always eating those on their wakeup cause my jabs/mp would wiff and I get punished.
Thank you. I originally didn’t include the super part then thought: “well duh that works for super too if they dash” forgetting ultras aren’t cancelable, etc. Thank you.