Getting Slaughtered by Cammy, Chun, and Karin

m-bison

#1

I do ok against mid-ranked players but when it comes to a decent player, I’m having trouble deciding what the shit is causing me to lose. Essentially it goes like this: We play footsies, maybe I win an exchange. Eventually I get hit and they just rush the shit out of me. It feels like spending meter to v-counter is a waste since it’s slow and they just stop when it comes out, then go right back in since I’m at disadv. Bison’s CA gets stuffed on wakeup, no ex moves are invincible…what do? Halp! Not salty just want to understand. Will come back and post a replay to search for


#2

matchup thread


#3

I am having trouble with rush down, and comand grabs…

I cant seem to find a good wake up or reversal option.

Like ex devil reverse, or ex psycho crusher on SF4.

It seems everything bison throw out gets beaten.

I can only do well on heavy pressure and footsies game.


#4

You have to apply high pressure with Bison because his defensive game is pretty weak. Unfortunately he isnt very good at getting in either. Once people down back and consistently can anti air, Bison has real problems. His slow walk speed makes reliable footises very hard too.


#5

Yeah i have to agree, i always loved bison, and played a lot with him on SF4, even if he wasn’t that good.

But in this game he looks like shit.

He is slow, outside of the teleport, his backdash is trash, have no reversals, no reliable wake up option, mediocre footsies (MK and HP are nice, but with his slow speed its pretty hard to space), limited anti air capabilities.

Im probably switching to Nash, he looks pretty decent.


#6

He doesnt have a good wakeup besides critical art. Sometimes you have to just sit there and block. Get your pokes in when you can. There will always be spots where you can get your pokes in.


#7

They have better buttons. You have to perfectly space st.MK, cr.MK, cr.MP and scissors.


#8

You have lp and lk. Both combo into lk scissors and lp blast.


#9

Bisons footsie range and overall speed reflect how hard he can hit now. As mentioned above, st MK/cr MP are great footsie buttons but you really gotta space your shit. Especially with scissors. The days of mindlessly pushing fools to the corner and lk xx lk scissors till death are done.

Bison excels at burst damage now and you’ve got to play with it in mind. Much like Makoto, one or two solid reads and the round is done. The price you pay for that is dysmal walk speed. If he had SF4 walk speed he would be maaaaaaaad OP.

On wakeup? Block. Block is far more important now. Optimised crush counter damage is a scary proposition, so you gotta watch those medium/heavy buttons up close. St LK, LP and cr LP are your go to buttons for gaining frame + up close. On counter-hit you can also confirm into crMP.

V reversal is good for taking some momentum away from ultra aggressive rush down but I think that you’re always better off saving your v chunks (and meter in general) for V trigger combos/punishes. St HP xx HK scissors VT into whatever 1 bar VT combo is a ton of dmg.

Super on wakeup is a good reversal but you are sacrificing the punish potential mentioned above. It has application but personally I’d rather save the bar for VT.

Hope you guys found this helpful!


#10

I agree with most of what you said except his damage. Bison’s damage combos are firmly in the middle of the cast currently.

On an aside why do people prefer st.mk to st.mp? Their ranges and frame data seem the same but MP can lead to a combo opportunity.


#11

They range the same, but you can’t get thrown out of s.MK. s.MP lunges you forward and if they kinda grab early you get scooped. Obviously if you can meaty it, s.MP is the go to. But for footsies, both are viable and have their uses.


#12

Middle of the cast w/o trigger active Maybe but shit man with V trig his damage is damn good. Good enough to warrant his slow walk speed I would say anyway.


#13

Ok so, i’ve played in a tournament now and watched some high level players as well as played online. Is there a reason to play bison over a rashid or chun? Even Necalli has good dmg in vtrigger. I just don’t see an upside to some of the worst defense in the game. He’s not even the best damage.


#14

Bison is def better than Rashid lol. Chun is just solid, and she’ll only get more solid over time. Necalli is also a decent middle of the road character but his buttons arent as good as Chun, but he also capitalizes off of good reads and burst damage but his mixup potential is low and Bison also wins against him.


#15

Rashid is better at a distance, he has srk wakeup threat, his AA is WAY better and stops cross ups, his v-skill is useful in all fights. So he does a little less dmg…where’s the reason not to swap to him? I’m just saying bison is good at low levels and quickly drops off as you rise. He severely needs a wakeup option.


#16

Bison is good on all levels. He has every tool to compete at the highest levels and he has tools that are downright nasty when used. Rashid is most likely mid tier/ bottom tier. Bison is top/ high mid.


#17

Can you give examples please? If he is, cool. Just not seeing it as I go up.


#18

It would be easier if you could show us some videos of your Bison play so we could see how you’re using him and give you pointers. The fact that you’re comparing Bison to Rashid and Chun tells me that you’re looking at the character wrong. Rashid and Chun are completely different characters with different playstyles.

However, the issue we should be looking at is why you’re even in the situation where EX Spinning Mixer is even necessary.

Just because Rashid has an invincible wakeup move does not make him strictly better than Bison or any other character. That just means he has a good tool for that situation.


#19

This is true. My search for my own fighter ID and steam ID come up with zero replays and most of them in my previous list are from 2 days ago. I’ll look to upload some. All criticism welcome. I am by no means delusional about where I am skill wise. I could be doing shit wrong :stuck_out_tongue:


#20

I’ve been seeing this complaint about bison since beta. All the while, people are posting up 80% 90% win rates with him. Imo hes a pretty straight forward character. Nothing really op. Just a bunch of really good tools. Just look at moons. He is placing high in recent tournaments. Its not like he got crazy good since ultra. Hes just using bisons tools really well.