Gief Tutorial

zangief

#1

Hello,

I want to help newcomers to understand how to fight with Gief and therefore i started a tutorial. and even though english is not my first language i try my best and would be happy if somebody could assist me with spelling problems

so let us start the tutorial:

Gief can be played in many different ways, rush down or turtling both are possible but he always has ONE goal (Except Blanka or Cammy?) KNOCKDOWN! so i?ll start with this

How do you manage to KNOCKDOWN your opponent:

  • EX Greenhand
  • SPD (Spinning Piledriver)
  • Atomic Suplex
  • Lariat
  • Sweep/Far Sweep
  • Normal Greenhand while enemy is in the Air (hard but should be learned too)

**
EX-Greenhand:**

Properties: Start-up Invulnerability;Fireball Invulnerability; Knockdown on 2nd hit;Fastest forward movement; Ability to buffer a Super/Ultra

Usage:
-Fireballs on reaction
-Laggy moves (like a sweep from Ryu after you KKK lariat a fireball)
-Jump-ins or other Special Moves thanks to his start-up invulnerability and high priority(Abels Kick)
-Wake-up on certain situations (El-Fuerte’s knockdown game)
-buffered c.LK into EX-GH
-combo from jabs/shorts into (ground game)
Cons:
-Highly punishable on block!

SPD/Suplex:

Properties: 2 frames Start-up; good range with Jab (only use fierce as a punisher; use jab everywhere else…)

Punish:
-bad block strings (use auto-block to buffer the 360)
-laggy moves on block or even on hit (e.g. Ken’s HK Hurricane kick; Gief’s Greenhand)
-empty jump in SPD range
-Tick throw into (read thick throws)
-instead of teching throws

Lariat:

Properties: Gief’s best Anti-air; ALWAYS do it LATE and from crouching!!;
PPP: Start-up Invulnerability! 100% Invulnerable to Fireballs at start-up and while active!!
3 Spins highly punishable on close range; good Chip damage (30 per hit)
KKK: no start-up Invulnerability (do not use against wake-up fireballs they will hit you) only his torso/upper parts of the legs are invulnerable to fireballs; 2 Spins; Hits low on start-up!!
Both: Knockdown; Have a sweet start-up time (4frames); Ability to Juggle afterward (use EX-Greenhand on Trade or last spin hit to juggle the enemy for 80 more damage)

Usage:
-PPP -Anti-air (crouching)
-KKK on wake-up
-Fireball evasion (KKK preferable – PPP only if you can lure the enemy into something )
-Strong against certain Ultras/Special moves since a damen good priority and invulnerability(Blanka horizontal ball; Every Punch of Boxer; Fei Long?s Rekkas/Chicken wing; Ryu/Ken?s Hurricane Kick; Dhalsim?s Ultra; E. Honda?s Head buttt/Ultra(PPP); Dictator?s Scissor Kick /Psycho Crusher; Rufus? Follow-up after a Blocked Messiah Kick; Gouken?s Palm;
-Faster Punisher (if a SPD would be too risky – e.g. jab SRK from Ryu at max range)

**
Sweep/Far sweep**

Properties:
moves gief towards enemy; cannot be fast recovered (best wake-up options); HIGHLY Punishable on block (especially the far one); REALLY FAR Sweep is not as good as Blanka?s, but good…

Usage:
-If an enemy execute es a move in the AIR, he cannot block immediately on landing (e.g. Honda?s Straight Jumping Fierce)
-Punish a Laggy Move (Sagat?s/Dictator?s HK)
-Advance towards the enemy whilst crouching

Greenhand

Properties:
Punishable from everybody on hit with at least MORE damage than dealt by you;
FAST movement toward the enemy; Knockdown enemies in the air

Usage:
-Punish special moves (Cammy?s Kick (HP-Greenhand Reversal); Blanka ball(HP-KARA-Greenhand on Reversal)
-Hit Jump-ins (catch the enemy in the air)
-Punish Straight jumps (it has one of the best priorities for this)
-COMMAND DASH!! (To make people afraid G)

Those are Gief?s options to reach a Knockdown and these Knockdown Games are possible after:
**
Knockdown Games:**

AFTER SPD:
Since the enemy is FAR away, there is a SPD-only Knockdown Game for Gief – everything starts with a JAB-Greenhand. Do it IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE SPD and then here are your options:

-Throw(SPD/Suplex)
-Attack(HK/Jump Straight + Head butt ;Jab/Short combo; Lariat/Sweep)
-Block & Punish

Throw:
Loses to: JUMP or Reversal move with throw invulnerability; Backdash
Beats: Everything else…

Attack:
Loses to: faster attacks; Reversals with startup Invulnerability; some backdashes (far sweep may hit the backdashing ones);
Beats: Jumps; Reversals without Startup Invulnerability

Block:
Loses to: Throws; Blockstrings
Beats: Reversals (Punish after)

the best Attacks after a SPD are shorts or jabs followed up with an EX-Greenhand combo OR HK since it is a REALLY GOOD ANTI-AIR (will hit jumping enemies) AND CLOSE HK is a GOOD sweet -1 frame on hit (tick throw)

try to assume what your enemy will do next if he gets SPDed 2 times in a row. he WILL almost certainly change his tactic!!! try to mix your game up, the best thing against a good enemy is still a block on the first SPD follow-up and look at what he tries to do. so the next time you can try to counter this…

Knockdown Games AFTER everything else except spd:
Options:

Jumpover/Crossup then Jumpover/Crossup a 2nd time (if the enemy doesn?t quick stand) and then either Block or Attack or Throw;

the best option after such knockdowns are jump over or cross-up and then block and attack or throw. but you need to mix it up. just stand next to the enemy till he gets up. It?s also nice to make him believe you want to do a throw or xyz just do not become too predictable

Jumpover/Crossup: Splash or Knees (the options after knees are limited but they have an almost perfect tick throw setup afterwards)

Options :
EARLY SPLASH<-- do the splash as fast as possible after the jump it will not hit the enemy instead it should lure him to belive he need to block and will walking toward you then immediately throw him on landing!! (usefull if your enemy is good at blocking crossovers!!)

Splash: well timed it beats or make reversals whiff (Shoryukens as example or Head butts)

Knees: (beat even more and make even more whiff but deal less damage on hit and the options are limited)

AFTER Splash

ALWAYS Attack and ALWAYS use Gief?s B&B Combo(c.jab. c.jab. c.short xx EX-Greenhand) since it can be hit confirmed into a 2nd knockdown with a sweet 280 dmg or if blocked start a tick throw Supplex/Spd into a new knockdown game)

if you can not execute the B&B combo use lariat instead and mix PPP/KKK up and move backward on block (it?s almost as safe as a hit confirm with c.LK since the combo c.LK xx lariat will sometimes whiff!!! and it deals more damage since 2 blocked hits deal 60 dmg)

the options on a blocked B&B for Gief are:
-just stop / block, wait for a reversal / jump away and punish
-tick throw
-start a block string into HK into SPD

After Knees:

Block:
Lose against:throws;Jumps
Wins:reversals

Tickthrow:
Lose against:Reversals
Wins: everything else (except the knees hit high than the enemy can throw you)

Attacks:

Combo c.LK xx Lariat REALLY IMPORTANT is the executeion c.LK+c.LP then PPP/KKK the crouching tech will help to beat throws AND perform a LK
Lose against:Block
Wins: everything else

Jump Straight + Head butt+sweep after:
Lose against:Reversals
Wins: Throwwhiffs AND WILL MOSTLY DIZZY!!
Lose:everything else

those are Gief?s Wake-up game you can mix in some specials against enemies without Reversaloptions like Straightjump with either spd or Head butt+Sweep or if you predict a grab its although nice to mix in but do not use it to often its punishable

**
intermediate Wake-up game Tactics:**

-Bait and lure the enemy example crouch next to him while blocking and then change to throw or a attack (or just stay blocked if the enemy think he can read you and is one of the smarter ones he fail for the block because it was to obvious!!
-build a pattern and if you think the enemy learned it BREAK IT! (do attacks 2-3 times in a row then change to throws)
-NEVER BLUFF A MONKY!!! do not use smart mind games against flow-chart-kens!!! use the most obvious stuff like block or throw for as long as it works till it doesn?t work!!!
-do not mix up senselessly and too much
-if you knockdown with a head butt + sweep the enemy will be almost dizzy, so go for an attack into a tick throw if blocked to get them dizzy

**
Advanced Wakeup game Tactics:**
-after a B&B combo do a short jump instead of a normal jump to just plain and simple air attack instead of crossing up the enemy (do this against enemies who know how to block crossovers to hit them
-after a body slam / supplex knockdown do a short jump like mentioned above

Wakeup games against special opponents!

Blanka:
DO NOT JUMP/Cross up!!
stand next to him on wakeup and the follow these options:
-Late Lariat PPP
-Throw
-Block

Late Lariat
Wins:Attacks like Upwardball or pokes…; it?s HARD AS HELL to get the timing against upwardball down therefore it?s not a good option!! but it wins…
Loses to:electricity; Block;Ultra!!

Throw:
Losee to: Reversals; Upwardball
Wins: everything else

Block:
Loses to: Grab; Blockstrings
Wins: Upwarwadball(punish with kara greenhand);Electricity(SPD Punish);Ultra(Punish with ultra first block low then high then low and perform a buffered c.MK into ultra)

Wake-up game against Dalsim:
Better reduce your reportwar against him into 2 options KKKLariat/Throw do not let him out of the corner once he is there

Wake-up game against Akuma:
he will teleport out of it predict his teleport 50/50 chance and punish!!

Wake-up game against Chun-Li:
the Wake-up game is 50/50 when she hase a EX Meter you can either
-LATE XYZ(headbut/Splash/knees)
-Trow imedatly on wakeup
-Block& Punish

its important that you make a REALY LATE jump the REVERSAL EX-Spinningbirdkick will then miss BUT a “later” timed will hit thats why this wakeup is 50/50 but since Zangief got 1200 and chun 950 helth you should do it!!

DIZZY and THEN?
the answer is simple and just use it in this way from up/down every time!

  • ULTRA
  • Focus Level3 into Super
  • Focus Level3 into Suplex (better positioning instead of SPD only use SPD against point even wake-ups like blanka/Zangief mirror without life lead!!)

Best ways to catch the enemy in a Ultra

Guaranteed ways are punishments against other ultras or moves unsafe on hit/block

Ultras:
Block&Punish while in Blockstun:Boxer;Chunli;Rufus;Feilong;Abel;Sakura;D an

Block & Buffer (taunt/Dash) into Ultra(never use Focus into ultra on a guaranteed buffered since it reduce damage)
Blanka(Block low high low Perform a buffered c.MK into Ultra) Sagat (block dash forward ultra);Guile (Block dash toward ultra); C.Viper Block/Taunt ultra; Ken Block taunt ultra; ElFuerte Jumpstraight ultra;Vega Block dash ultra; Akuma Jumpstraight ultra;Gouken Taunt/Dash Ultra;

Special moves unsafe for ultra
Rufus: Messiah LK Follow-ups, Block & Ultra. For every other follow-up just FA into ultra
Ken: Hurricain Kick (HK;LK on hit!!!) perform ultra while in Block stun
Ryu: Hurricane Kick, perform ultra while in Block stun
Honda: Butt slam, block and Ultra
Blanka: Electricity (non-ex) Block & Ultra
Abel: Close Kick special (do not know the name) Block & Ultra
C.Viper: Seismic hammers, block and ultra
Zangief: Greenhand (on block/hit)
Boxer: Blocked Headbutt
Sagat: Blocked Tiger knees that hit with both hits
–need more input–

Normals

Guile?s HK Sweep : perform in block stun from the first!!!
Blanka?s Sweep: block & punish

Tick throws or Tricks into Ultra
One of the best ultra setup trick is a FAKE SPLASH into ultra. it is one of the best ultra setups i know so far and almost impossible to evade on reaction (most times it is just evaded with luck!!!)

Perform a Splash crossover so that the splash DONT HIT the opponent (best time to execute is after some REAL splashes!!) if the splash is done really close it is almost impossible to see with the eye if it is a fake one or a real splash. so upon landing perform your ultra

The 2nd best ultra setup is a follow up after crossover knees. perform some lariats afterwards to make sure the enemy will block when you do decide to ultra

Tick throw into ultra after the first punch of your B&B combo (would prefer a fakesplush but this is also a nice setup!!!)
**
Explanation of Giefs B&B Combo(s)**

Wich Combos:
(Jump-in) c.LP; c.LP; c.LK xx EX-Greenhand
Jump-in knees; c.LK+c.LP; PPP (ppp has a much better movement and push back therefore it is safer on block!!! (most people think KKK is safer but it is only safer on whiff, not on block)
faar MP; LK xx EX-Greenhand <-- excelent range good damage +knockdown

Why no MP-MK combos?
EX-Greenhand is highly punishable on Block you need to CONFIRM that you hit before you use it

Abilities of the combos
(Jump-in) c.LP*; c.LP*; c.LK** xx EX-Greenhand
Jump-in knees; c.LK+c.LP##; PPP

Change the combo if you see that the enemy is blocking on those spots in either one of these alternatives
/* = If your enemy is standing and blocking GO TO ** PART of the COMBO the c.LK will hit he is standing becouse he is afraid of thickthrowing and try to jump out instead of block he use autoblock to hold up/upbackward

  • = Possibility to tick throw(mostlikely will hit when he blocks low instead of Reversal out!)
  • = Possibility to Block (if you assume a SRK or similar move is being hammered!!! (DOES NOT WORK ON ** becouse here it is no real blockstring anymore!!)
    ** = Possibility to HK (will perform an Anti JUMP if you assume that your enemy is holding up/back!!!) if he blocks you can’t spd him after!!!
    ** = Possibility to Head butt if you assume the enemy will hold upward after the lk!
    ** = if you have no EX Meter use MP here. It will still combo and deal quite a good amount of damage

if you have blocked and the enemy is turtling use at * LP-SPD and at ** HK to close the gap to HP-SPD throw him!!! it?s even possible to **LP-SPD but then you need to be fast!!

here you have the same options as mentioned above Block/Attack/Throw but it?s much harder to hit confirm. almost impossible but this combo is better than nothing and does some more things here!

  1. you tech throw crouching so you can not be throwed if performed fast
  2. you execute a move that has only 3 frames of startup (fastest attack speed in the game) and need to be blocked low
  3. you push yourself a bit away from the enemy therefore the PPP can be really safe since he pushes you further back! a ryu needs to advance and sweep and has a really tight time frame. it?s hard to punish and most enemies will most likely hit themselves trying to advance or hold backwards here for that risk and eat double chip damage (60dmg) so you can do this to finish the enemy off or if you have a serious life lead!!

Best Inputway so faar:

the movement after the :lp: is a goot “timer” for the link (movement should be read like input display down to up)

:df: :mp: :hp:
:df: :lk:
:d:
:df:
:d:
:db: :lp:
:db: :lp:
:db: :hp:

What if you can not perform the B&B combo?
-try to learn them, it?s very important for advanced play
-perform Jump-in; c.LP; PPP (it?s hard to hit confirm but better than nothing and c.LK will whiff sometimes c.LP will not)

Normals:
(copy pasted from the wikipedia)

S.LP (Stand Jab)

Awesome in a nutshell. Jab is +8 on block, does 40 damage, chains into itself, and has a great hitbox. It’s easy to fish for counter hits and react with a Linked S.MP when you hit. (linked dmg =120)

S.MP (Stand Strong)

One of the best normals in the entire game. At a 4 frame startup with 90 damage and a +2 on block, nothing is bad about this move. It reaches crazy far and can even combo into itself in the right distances. Use w/ Stand Jab in working your way in. It’s also great for stuffing moves in the Sagat matchup. ALWAYS try a S.LK buffered into greenhand after! its a free knockdown if the kick connects!!

S.HP (Stand Fierce)

Glacially Slow startup and a negative -3 on block makes this move a no go. It looks a lot less safe than it really is though. -3 is pretty hard to punish by most of the cast.

S.LK (Stand Short)

Pretty much the exact same Frame Data as stand strong, with a little further hitbox and it hits lower. This is also Gief’s best canceled move. From far away you fish for a hit buffered into green hand. It also works great at the end of any of his combos.

S.MK (Stand Forward)

At first I thought this move was pretty good, since it reaches far and seems to have good priority. However, this move is crazy unsafe at -10. That’s pretty much a free Ultra from Chun, Abel, or Blanka. Do not use.

S.HK (Stand Roundhouse)

The boot of Justice. A completely new move for Gief, and a great one at that. It’s startup is really slow, but the most important thing is that it moves Gief forward while attacking upwards. This is great for catching people jumping backwards. It’s not really an anti air per se, but more like an anti jump. I find it incredibly useful moving past akuma airballs and hitting him on his descent. Oh, and 140 damage, this move HURTS. It’s also only -2 on block, so nothing can really punish you at that distance. A common tactic is to whiff S.HK to move you forward, and SPD/Super/Ultra.

c.LK (crouching short)

Gief got a 3 frames startup move that must be blocked low and can be buffered into EX-Greenhand!! use it whisely and if you think you can not punish something try this move out!!

c.HP (crouching Fierce)

Save on block/hit same range as a sweap with pretty good priority make this move nice for some moments but not more! (thickthrow on hit/block +2/-2)

Reading your opponent:
It’s important to know wich options on the B&B Combo/Jumpin your enemy prefers therefor take a look wich ways he try to escape
-Is he a Jumping out charakter? when yes streight or backward?
-Is he a Reversal “Hammer” type?
-Just block?

It is althou realy important to see if your enemy use NORMALS as “Antiair” if he do so you can gain a FREE Ultra/SPD by using a shortjump the shortjump well placed (its realy easy spacing!) will made the most normals to whiff while you hafe a free opportunity to throw this is almost your best ultra setup if you can predict a antiair normal well

try to read your enemy and on block try to punish your reading its important you learn to know your enemy fast so you can dominat him totaly. as excample after 2 times the same move the oponent mostlikely try something diffrent try to be unreadable and read your enemy on the same time always observ him ; this starts on intermidate level when you notie all player can block obious crossups easily you need to tweak use the B&B combo AND fake crossups in normal overheads (shortjump; step backward) or fake overheads into SPD/Block

Coming soon:
-Jump-ins
-???


#2

very nice, your english isnt perfect but its good enough


#3

Dude, I love your German English. I always read it with a German accent and it makes perfect sense.


#4

nice compilation.


#5

Note on the Green Hand/Banishing Flat

It’s actually safe on hit. If you peg the opponent, you’re safe on hit, as you can block and such afterwards. You have to think of it like a fireball actually. At close range, a fireball is safe on hit, but you are dangerously close to the opponent. So you have to play the mind game if you want to do more damage. If the opponent is expecting a spd/suplex, they will jump away. If you anticipate this, you can throw out a lariat to ground them. If you think they’ll go for a hit or a throw, you can punish with a spd. They may also be tempted to toss out an ultra/super afterwards. Either way, you do have options other than getting pegged.


#6

Um… where did you get this information? It’s never safe. Block or hit.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/nov/13/zangief-frame-data-street-fighter-4/

Frame advantage on hit with banishing flat.
-5, -6, -5


#7

if you hit a airborn enemy like mentioned its save becouse it knocksdown everything else is unsave thats for sure


#8

added ultra catchs and tricks into ultra


#9

To be honest, zangief’s tick throwing options is somewhat lacking and limited that I tend not to abuse it too much. His ONLY tick throwing possibility comes from crouching low punch which is somewhat effective against “non-shoryuken” type characters. I just which he had more frames on block.


#10

c.lp;c.lk;closeHK(hit);closeMP; every jumpin and where are the limits? the enemy can jump out but that works in your favor since you can lariat them if you predict it or B&B combo them to knockdown and then play knockdowngames…


#11

I would personally not depend on closeHK to set up a tick throw. The numbers are against you. First the opponent will see this move coming since it has an setup amount of 7 frames, so most likely he’ll block it. This move is not safe on a block which puts your at a 5 frame disadvantage which I know is why you listed it as hit only. But, this move will most likely not hit.


#12

no i hafe listen it becouse its the BEST antijump (faar HK) and you hafe not much options if you guess wrong and the enemy did not jump you perform a close hk (mostlikle hit)


#13

Sorry, I’m not quite sure what you mean here. How does a far HK become a close HK? And how do you get a sure hit? I can only think of whiffed ultras/supers and just luck when concerning a normal that has a setup of 7 frames with no sure combos.


#14

wakeupgames after spd…

you can either atack throw or block if you choos to atack and the enemy jump its a faar high kick if the enemy try to counter its a close hk and if they block (wath a enemy normal never ever do against giefs wakeup game after spd its a blocked close hk !


#15

Pretty good writeup for people learning how to play the character


#16

thanks im happy to hear this^^
thats a writeup i was searchingfor every charakter i was intrested in since i only found one in the viper forum i thought about starting one for gief so maybe if someone want to start he hafe all the basics needed! i would apreciat feedback about punishng normals/Specials/ultras the list is faar away from beeing perfeckt but helps a loti think ^^

and if someone hafe the time to remove my spelling errors i would be plessed about a PM with the right spelling and would edit it^^


#17

thanks for the pm i worked to build everything inside it should be much more “reader friendly” :wink:

thanks i try to build everything i got inside tock me some time too but its worth it :slight_smile: good work guys!!

this guide even helped me G i forgott totaly my fakesplash and its a wonderfull setup11^^


#18

hey the 2 PMs were from me… :frowning: …lol …glad to see you actually changed it to my PMs… :smiley:


#19

hehe i actualy use both of your correktions together compaired the diffrences and choos wich ones where on wich part in the text better both where helpfull i would never waste the time anybody takes for me and just use one correktion ignoring the 2. as excample the startcentence from on of you where better crrektet one other use better syntax for "wake-up"game and so on one mntioned tigerknee needs 2 hits to get pulled off :wink: and so on thx for both they where sendet in a timeframe from one hour sorry that was to fast for me to react^^


#20

Good idea for a thread. I was actually thinking of making a thread about what ways you can punish other people’s ultras with when you block/dodge them, but maybe it could go in here.