Gief's supposed BnB - Question on Links

zangief

#1

Crossup FBA, c.lp X’s 3, s.lk xx EX hand.

Zangief’s supposed BnB combo.

Can’t get it for the life of me. I’ve done it - passed Hard trial 4 (and 5 for that matter). But I can’t get it consistently. The real question I have is: How big a deal is that?

The combo is freaking hard - and just so people don’t start yelling at the newbie (and I AM a newbie, not a scrub - I want to learn) it’s not just a matter of sucking at linking (which I do). It’s timing a link, while buffering an EX hand into a standing lk - a whopping 6 frames combined between startup and active. I can’t be the only one who finds that a difficult prospect, especially in the heat of battle.

As near as I can tell, the combos sole usefulness is a hit-confirm. End without the EX Hand and you don’t get a knockdown, do the combo without the c.lps and you don’t get to wait to see if you should finish or try a tick throw.

My game (which isn’t half bad considering how long I’ve been playing, if I do say so myself) right now is dependent on this one:

crossup FBA, c.lk xx KKK lariat.

Between the FBA and the c.lk I have a little mini hit confirm (though it’s obviously less of a window than you would want in a hit confirm, and I will occasionally pull out the lariat when I’m being blocked), the lariat scores a knockdown on hit, is difficult (but not impossible) to punish on block, and I can either skip the c.lk and go for an SPD, or tick off the c.lk. for a jab SPD. Sounds like good odds to me. And by my reckoning, it’s even money or better against his BnB, up until you’re insanely comfortable with the BnB to the point that you could pull it off 10 out of 10 times in the pressure of a tournament.

So, yes, I should be in training mode working on his “supposed” BnB - as a matter of fact I am right now. But seriously, how big a deal is it if I never work that into my Gief game?

Also, if the peanut gallery says “blasphemy! Of course you must use that combo,” then any suggestions on ways to practice?


#2

People learn to block that crossup lk KKK.

Hit confirmable knockdowns set up for all of Giefs knockdown mixup, it’s easy and relieable once you get it down.


#3

So that’s one vote for “Blasphemy!” then?


#4

Holy crap - my eyes opened!

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=188725

:d: + :lp:, :d: + :lp:, :d: + :lp:, :r:, :d:, :df:, :r: + :lk: ~ :mp: :hp:

It’s still sketchy, but I made the first progress on that in a while - I can land it around 30% of the time now, but that’s leaving off the jump in/cross up.

I still don’t get links in general (I get them in a cerebral sense - but they’re not under my fingers yet). But this one at least, with the built in little buffer of the QCF, I am landing relatively consistently.

Woot. Thank you Dan’s Student.


#5

Hey man, I’m gonna question all day long. Only way I’m gonna learn. And oh yes, I will learn. Yes, I am a “newer zangief.” I understand - you’ve probably told 5 thousand little newbies this information, and maybe a handful of them have actually put it to good use. Well do me one favor - yell at me all you want - rant and rave and be elitist. Just make sure in the midst of all that ranting, you give me some useful info.

Care to explain to me why cr.lk is going to stop someone from jumping out any better than a cr.lp? If I’m already comboing them, they’re not going anywhere - maybe I’m just “being a newbie” here, but I’m not seeing the difference. Yes, cr.lk does 10 more damage than cr.lp - so yes, that in itself is reason to learn that combo. But what does that have to do with preventing jumping out?


#6

Ah.

Let’s say I don’t start it with a cross up - I’ve got a knock down, and I’m starting this meaty. I open with a crouching jab - isn’t that going to hit them if they try to jump up? And then if they hold up back, it should register as a block, right? So now they’re in a block string - but they’re still not going anywhere until the combo’s over - except if I finish with the EX hand I’m gonna end up with a frame disadvantage, and if I don’t they’re going to be hoping away as soon as I finish. That’s what you’re getting at, right? But if I use the crouching shorts, they’ve gotta block low, so they can’t as easily jump when I tick into a throw.

Now that, sir, makes sense. Thank you.


#7

I believe we’re saying the same thing in different ways - I just didn’t mention that after stopping the combo without doing the ex hand, that a tick throw was an option. I’m assuming they’d go bunny hoping away wether or not I tried for a tick.

We agree - you’ve taught something to a newbie.


#8

haha, now it looks like you were talking to yourself.

haha glad you learned something :slight_smile:


#9

The crouching short counts as a low attack where as crouching jab is a mid attack. Low attacks prevent jump outs on wake up where as mids don’t.

Side note didn’t I beat up on u on xbl a few nights ago. GG’s.


#10

lol - yea, you stomped me in some mirror matches as I recall. GGs, and thanks for the tips in the message.

Alright, so I’ve been working on timing a crouching short to be meaty to prevent a jumpout, and I’ve made two observations. I’m sure these are not revelations, just news to me:

  1. there’s nothing to stop the opponent from doing a reversal DP if they see me just standing beside them. That leaves the mind game of either a) I do a crouching short, which beats jump but loses to reversal or B) I block, which beats DP but loses to jump out.

And observation 2) the timing is pretty strict, especially when the opponent might quick recover, or not. Are we seriously talking about trying to put a crouching short over an opponent on wakeup (with it’s, if I recall correctly, 2 active frames)?

Before the claws come out again, if that’s what people are saying to do, I’ll learn to do it - but that, to my newbish self, sounds an awful lot like a difficult game with bad odds.


#11

Timing is tricky and u do risk getting reversaled but it will prevent jumpouts. Also u can mix in standing spd, grab kkk lariet, neutral jump headbut and late cross splash late short jump fake cross knees, jump empty to ultra. The mix up game for gief is key. Also check out ultra davids option select post Im still working on option selects.


#12

Fair enough.

puts training dummy back on Jump


#13

I always have to fight the urge to yell at this kind of thread. The sheer number of lazy asshats who pick up this game and want to know something without doing even the most basic, cursory look into it (ie just look at the names of other threads on the* front page*) kinda makes them all run together and seem like the same person doing it over and over again, so much so that my first reaction is always “WTF? Ban this guy already!” I know that’s not true. And it’s nice that it seems like you want to learn.

But holy crap dude, are you serious?? I mean I’m looking at the Zangief forum’s front page right now, and I’m seeing “Zangief’s Combos”, “Deep Look at Hard Trial 4 Combo – Jab jab jab, EX Hand”, and “Comboing for beginners”. None of those threads was good enough to post in or learn from? And that’s only on the front page. And it’s not like you’re asking anything new or interesting. “Will my game be worse if I use worse options?” Yes, yes it will be. “It’s a hard combo!” Sure is, I mess it up too. “I use cr. short xx kick lariat instead sometimes.” Yeah, fine. “How do I do it? Oh, I know how now but I’m gonna keep this thread going anyway!” Great. Just great.


#14

The Zangief Combos sticky is a thread on an encyclopedic collection of his combos. I didn’t feel it appropriate to insert a question on execution into that thread.

The “comboing for beginners” thread was someone asking a broad generic question on comboing, whereas I wanted specific information on wether or not this quite complicated combo was as basic as everyone said it was. As it turns out someone did answer that question on that threat - exactly two days before I posted this question. My apologies for not making sure I follow threads after I’ve read them that don’t seem relevant to my search. More importantly, it still didn’t click with me until I read Dan’s Student’s post - which happens to be the “Deep Look at Hard Trial 4” - again.

All I needed was for someone to say “yes, yes it is really important” - which bunsomite did - and then answer a couple detail questions that I had on specifics. It’s not like this is an insanely high traffic section of the board - if you think my question is irrelevant, just don’t worry about it. Ignore me and my kind. We’ll eventually go away - either because we got better or because we fell away. I’m trying my damnedest to be in the “get better” category, and some people here were nice enough to help a noob. Thank you very much bp amaco, bunsomite, and Dan’s Student.


#15

haha, I’d have to side with UD on this one. I feel his frustration. He probably saw that kara GH thread and said enough is enough. That thread blew my mind. It took some will power not to post something nasty in there. There are way too many redundant threads asking the same thing around here. I thought it was bad when that one dude made the blanka honda thread about a week after THE EXACT SAME THREAD was already made. He then tells me he read through the other thread and decided to make a thread of his own for god knows what reason. Then there’s the other guy refusing to believe cr.lairat is the best AA and wants to know why he’s getting beat out of it and REFUSES to acknowledge that he’s just mistiming it.


#16

yes, i had the same thoughts ultra david and i expressed it a few days ago when he first did this thread haha and yes i i did answer all his questions and them some…

then i went right on to deleted everything just so more questions wouldnt come my way from randoms hahahahha. :slight_smile:

but this post here doesnt help at all.

oh well ! ! ! lets get off topic.

anyone going to sun route? hahaha