Which is 90% of the time. I also use it when I bait a EX Ball, so it should work too.
A new complaint with gouken. Why did he teach shoryuken to ryu and ken.
Anyways, I was trying to utilize demon flip focus follow-up on matches, only to fail miserably. I cant rly see how it’s used and in what situation it should be used.
Most likely you got hit by a reversal, which can’t be parry or counter.
Anyways, my only complain on Gouken atm is that I can’t DF El Fuerte at all when he has Ultra. DF = Free Ultra for el Fuerte. =/
look guys, gouken is an old man.
old men have to be smart to beat the brute strength of younger men.
that is why randy couture can still compete and chuck liddell just gets knocked out.
gouken doesnt get to stomp stomp stomp stomp mindlessly until the other guy is dead.
you have to know what is going on.
if you know the other guy is going to jump, gouken’s shoryuken is better than ryu’s!
The ones I regularly fight try to chip you with the EX ball from full screen. I was so hoping for an answer to that. :razzy: (of course jumping it, etc. but I was hoping to punish it with a clean hit)
You can hit them, but your SP Palm must come out as reversal.
Hmm…welp. If you ever happen to do it while recording, please let us know.
Yeah, I will record something by Sunday, I’m not at my house so I don’t have my camera with me. But try it out, it should work. I just tested it on Training mode on a blanka that is always walking back and just EX Ball. So he should be able to block after the ball since its walking back. Just remember to block standing, that should be it, but I bet you know that already.
what is SP palm?
i use jab palm against blanka after blocking the ball.
if you block blanka ball from crouch, it wont work.
you have to block the ball standing.
it will still whiff now and then because of blanka’s mobile hitbox.
it does not whiff often enough to prevent me from using high block > lp palm on every occasion.
my rough guess would be 20% chance to whiff based on all my matches vs blanka.
SP = Small Punch, I’m tend to use that always. But yeah, its Jab Palm.
But you just have to do a reversal after blocking the ball Standing, and you will get him 100% of the time. If its not a reversal, you have a chance of it to be blocked.
EDIT: I also notice that while you walk back and then block the EX Ball its easier to hit him, even if its not reversal.
you can miss blanka after blocking high and getting a reversal.
you can also hit blanka after blocking high and not getting a reversal.
some posters have even suggested that you only have the chance to miss if you reverse.
ultimately, blanka’s shifting hitbox has been blamed by most.
Yet Ryu doesn’t have to know the other guy is going to jump for a decent anti-air.
That’s my main gripe with Gouken. Matches are one long mind-game, you can do very little on reaction, and almost all of your attack strategies rely on your opponent pressing (the wrong) buttons. Playing a good turtle with Gouken is hell in my experience. If a Ryu gets in on a turtle, he can keep the pressure going and hopefully force an opening. If (if!) a Gouken gets in on a turtle, he can do jab jab jab and then has to do something risky to keep the pressure going. At which point a good turtle will plant his easy reaction punish in your face. And knock you down. And then you’re in a world of PAIN.
All of his weak points are of course rendered moot by the fact that his shoryuken is fucking horizontal (props to people who get the reference ;))
well, it was a joke.
i dont think gouken’s ultra is a more valuable tool than ryu’s dp.
gouken doesnt need to get on top of someone to pressure them.
he pressures them with fireballs.
It’s always FB > safe Palm (transition to counter to block the on-coming attack)
- or FB > DF Slide if I catch them out of the air 3/4 - Full Screen away
-or FB > EX DF dive kick meaty to hope it can register a hit or if I think they are going to block I go for the DF Grab (The thing I hate is that really only works from bout 3/4 away so I always have to dash forward and correct the spacing before doing shit from that far :lame:)
Akuma’s DF is FAST FAST FAST and has CRAZY Range not to mention if he crosses you over with it after his DF punch he can Buffer his Ultra and damn near instantly grab you.
And yes with Gouken the match IS one long as mind game, which I’m addicted to. I think it’s the same in a sense with Akuma b/c his life gauge is so low you can’t make too many mistakes as well.
I find it very useful for closing the distance on Sagat, esp. when they go for the high step kick, not to mention if someone tries to hit you out of the air you can absorb and punish. Beware of the TK, and TU at point blank range as they both DESTROY the Air Parry. I will go in practice mode today to see what dive kick does to the TK.
It’s also pretty useful when you are trying to pressure Seth, Chun, Vega, and Feurte and they try their jumping off of the wall antics. The Air Parry would be way more useful it worked like Kongo or if Gouken was able to initiate the moveset earlier rather than the tip of his jump :annoy: It wouldn’t be bad if he could Triangle jump with his dive kick as well considering Cammy and Rufus can do it. Akuma doesn’t need it as he already has enough shit in his arsenal.
Yeah this works, the timing is a little tricky at first but it’s easy after a few times I quit after about 12 times in a row.
The difference being that with Akuma, you can actually control the mindgames. I switched to him simply because i wanted that wakeup game, and even Akuma’s DF slide stays out for DAYS. After trying to meticulously time a meaty slide with Gouken’s, Akuma’s DF makes me feel like a hobo who just got a house from Habitat for Humanity. Now i can have nice things!
Which sort of leads to a big overall gripe: all that vit Gouken has really doesn’t mean much since in practice it’s just a buffer for all the shit you’re going to eat on missed guesses, pressure, CH pokes, and wakeups. You can’t make any mistakes with Gouken either, and on top of it you have zero escape options.
And the tatsu. Even the EX version doesn’t hit on both sides. Coupled with the uselessness of EX DF, it effectively means it’s actually stupid to not try a crossup on a downed Gouken even if you’re playing Rog. In fact, i’m pretty sure i had a Rog accidentally jump over me to safety with a lame j.rh thanks to the EX tatsu’s startup sort of getting under him an pushing him over. That was fun.
I really fucking hate how everything feels like a gamble. EX senku into tatsu? Gamble. Punish that isn’t point blank? Gamble. Backthrow actually landing? Tech city. Tatsu after backthrow? Gamble. Reset hit after backthrow into DF? Double down. Ultra after backthrow? They’re offscreen, so huge gamble. Any other ultra setup? gamble. Fireball game, gamble.
I agree with many of your views about Gouken but not all of them. Overall playing with Gouken overall requires major patience and an understanding of how to take advantage when he has an opening. The only huge gamble I see above is EX Senku to Tastu I simply don’t see the point in that one because it’s a techable knockdown and Gouken recovers so fucking slow. Everything else I’m pretty fine with even though it took alot of practice and having my ass whipped to be very good at it.
Goukens way of pressure is pretty much based around his FB Game and by using that you can make your opponent make wreckless decisions to come and get you thus putting themselves at risk to do so. I must admit, I’ve never had to practice on my grab/tech game that much before Gouken but that comes with the territory of choosing him. I think there is alot of options for mind games with Gouken when you consider Empty Jumps and really using the Focus Attack system to your advantage to either counter or absorb and create space. It also helps that he reaches a level 2 fairly quick just a little shy of Fei Long and the shit has CRAZY range. And since Palm Strike has Armor break it does stop alot of people from just Focus Attacking or even baiting the shit most of the time. So really the only option your opponent have is to constantly stay on top of you and we just have to figure out ways around it per match up.
Upon wake up if I’m being crossed up, I normally Kongo since it hit’s on either side or just dash to the side they jumped from and if they whiffed the attack it’s an easy back throw set up. You just have to beware of the meaty empty jump but this holds true for almost everyone. I’ve also learned on cross ups you can whiff a crouching light kick on purpose and it makes them whiff the cross up as you recover to punish. You can also lp palm to escape and punish accordingly.
Just to clarify, I think both Akuma and Gouken can’t make too many mistakes (along with the rest of the cast aside from Zangief). Even though Akuma has methods of escape the only reliable method is really his teleport and that itself is punishable as well, his DP has alot of priority but if he misses then it’s lights out, so it’s still a 50/50 guess on your opponent. And I guess we have to agree to disagree but there are several mind games you can play with Gouken even though they all result to us wanting to transition to EX Palm in the end, although I have been landing cr. lp > Tastu 90% the time I try it (unless they are crouching).
My main gripe is his close up game is ass (frame data and lack of 2 in ones) and you have to wait for an opening since Kongo isn’t 100%. Like I said before, if the opening isn’t there, I just block and let my opponent push themselves away from me then I transition into a FA and create some space now the game is back on my terms. I would like to think I have pretty good defense (not including trying to tech online), and my reaction is pretty good so I tend to be patient and make my opponents make mistakes then drop a huge combo or send them to the other side of the screen to frustrate them with FB traps. I mix it up every now and then with a rush down strategy just to keep them honest.
But much agreed playing Gouken requires you to gamble a bit, but he has the highest risk/reward on the game. I thnk we all agree that the old man does need a little work and hopefully all will be fixed on SSF4, until then we just have to make best of what we have and complain here LOL.
This. I’m just picking up the old man as a secondary to my other old man main (Gen.) I think that if Rufus, who is character with massive pressure options, a huge number of setups to ultra, insane damage, AND an awesome wakeup move (EX Messiah), can get 1150 health, then Gouken should get some extra health as well. Sure, Gouken can keep you away like none other, but once someone gets in, he has no options if the opponent plays smart. What do you guys think? Would an extra 150 health make a big difference?
haha he definitely looks buff/strong enough to have the same health as abel, balrog, sagat, etc.
i don’t think it’s necessary if they would fix his holes and give him a reliable reversal
(EX tatsu whiffs so much that i cannot consider it a good reversal; regular tatsu is throwable; palm strike at point blank is easily throwable; ex demon flip gets beaten out by a mindless crouching jabber).