Gouken Safe Jumps

gouken

#1

This thread is long over due. Please post only what you know to be valid and post any possible problems if you can. Since this will be a character specific thread, post the name of the character(s) at the top of your entry to make searching easier. I’ll post the classic.

Example:

Cammy/Yun/Sagat/Deejay/Guy… any reversals with 4 frames or more and the character gets up in the “normal” amount of frames.

After forward throw, immediately dash, immediately mk.flip, press kick at first possible moment. The goal is to block her reversal and punish her on her recovery. She will be behind you. Sweep/Denjin/Palm can all punish. You might have to dash to sweep and start a divekick loop.

(Sidenote-I have had a few times where this particular set up has whiffed and then I was grabbed.)


New Goukens: Ask a question get an answer
New Goukens: Ask a question get an answer
Labwork: Tests, results, discoveries
Gouken Safe Jump Help
Safe jumps and links questions
New Goukens: Ask a question get an answer
New Goukens: Ask a question get an answer
#2

For guile, which would mean any 4 frame reversal as well i assume, after cl.mp-sweep link, do immediate mk flip, immediate divekick and its a safe jump. Bonus points if you os sweep, cause guile cant do shit but block. On honda, os ex tatsu beats all his reversals.


#3

Ken/Ryu/Akuma-NOT Oni(Can this be confirmed by someone?)

After forward throw, dash twice, dj.lk will stuff most of the shoryukens or make them whiff.


#4

Super String Theory: The Vortex

[details=Spoiler] Check “General info about Gouken” tab in this thread to learn about the purpose Vortex. http://shoryuken.com/f268/gouken-consolidated-matchups-character-specific-info-237189/

Akuma’s Vortex Part 1 [media=youtube]vTJ5srcjWiA[/media]

Akuma’s Vortex Part 2 [media=youtube]wBVVdBu4iEE&feature=related[/media]

[media=youtube]s1Gw91WQrVY#[/media]

Anything below this line is assuming you understand the purpose of the Vortex

[Spoiler=Vortex Starters & Enders (Untechs)]
-Cr. Roundhouse -

-Forward Throw -

-Back Throw (if it whiffs)- Check for reset options > Vortex or end with cr. roundhouse, super, ultra. Your reset options should be based to either stuff, bait, or to make their reversal whiff so you can punish. Once you’ve made them put away their reversal, reset them and GF Grab them, or vice versa.

-Gouken Flip Slide -

-Gouken Flip Throw -

-Super -

-Ultra -

[/details]

Shoto Specific

Spoiler

(some of this works for other characters too, but in most cases they will make them whiff should they try to reversal)

  • Here’s how you stuff srk’s > vortex shoto’s. The stuffs can be timed to hit them on the ground and lead into your combos etc., the goal would be to end with an untech and start the process all over again. If they aren’t grounded they will be hit and considered mid-air.
  1. forward throw set up [media=youtube]qRpb7_BXwjU[/media]
  2. d + mk set up [media=youtube]FEWNAC9jqaE[/media]
  3. cr. roundhouse set up [media=youtube]eQfx59Lyvj0[/media]
  4. w/ faux safe jump set up [media=youtube]NJfNvXRyiQo[/media]
  5. using the reset to set up to stuff srk [media=youtube]HsRCICY_IP8[/media]

4 + Frame Start Ups

Spoiler

I’m not going to spill all the beans and go through the set ups and expansion of all of this, but you’ll have to figure out what works for you to include it into your oki. Here’s a couple of ways you can attack per safe jumping, this isn’t safe for things you can’t safe jump like srk, ex spd, (Adon non AE). etc. etc. but against the 4 frame start up group this is what allows you to rush them down after you un- tech them. Well that and a few other things. :slight_smile:

-Gouken Safe Jumping Guile [media=youtube]vE8Nai61Zno[/media]
-Attacking 4 Frame Reversal [media=youtube]EfW6cpIbhTA[/media]
-Attacking 4 Frame Reversal Cross Up [media=youtube]1U_wngfvnWo[/media]
-Using d+mk as Safe Jump [media=youtube]rwR4DainoOQ[/media]

Adon (For Non AE Version, Adon wakes up a little later in AE

Spoiler

You can safe jump other characters using this same set up using dive kick as well as j. mk, but this particular timing works specifically on Adon since you can’t safe jump him with dive kick. [media=youtube]ktmPYKH8YHw[/media]

[/details]

Unblockables: AE2012 Gouken Unblockable Compendium


#5

[media=youtube]rwR4DainoOQ[/media]

[media=youtube]s1Gw91WQrVY[/media]

[media=youtube]5Wr9tAsogJI[/media]

[media=youtube]leSpCMKyzH8[/media]

[media=youtube]8V1UsSSuczM[/media]

[media=youtube]qzoXqn-tgOk[/media]

[media=youtube]jTrG0xI-L1A[/media]

[media=youtube]4MUpI3VHX-w[/media]

For Non AE but still applicable…
[media=youtube]ktmPYKH8YHw[/media]


#6

Oni is different, he must use lp srk for you to stuff him or you must make him whiff by aiming at his back shoulder like a cross up.


#7

You timed it early per faux safe jump, pretty much the same as empty jumping because your attack will whiff.


#8

currently testing this… needs further testing, but looks promising.

forward throw, forward dash, mk dflip (early cancel)
=> safe but very tight to input. Afterwards I go for OS tech cr.mk x hado (combos on counter hit for link in sweep or FADC mix up)

forward throw, forward dash, mk dflip (late cancel; almost on ground again)
=> unsafe, but hits quite deep/meaty. gives enough block stun, that close mp is a true blockstring…

sweep - dj.mk (dive kick) in OS tech cr.mk…
=> can be delayed for unsafe mix up.

ex rush punch in U2 lvl2 backdash forwarddash mk dflip in OS tech cr.mk
=> just an idea, needs testing…


#9

Can you add the character(s) or amount of frames you are trying to safe jump? (4 frame reversal…?)

Also, I believe Gaki posted a Denjin followup similar to yours that included backdash, forward jump, hk(?) flip which he showed vs. Seth.


#10

It Works on 4+ frame reversals, 3 frame reversals beat it out everytime unless you faux it.


#11

Tested in training, and worked against Ryu dummy mashing reversal MP SRK (3fr). As I said, inputs are really tight.

But it was kinda late, will verify again.


#12

Make sure that it’s a true safe jump and not a faux. You should be able to hit the shoto and block if he does reversal. It takes 4 frames to land and dive kicks hittable box is too close for srk and it’s invincible 3 frame start up, because of this shotos have a specific way that you have to attack their srk.

Forward throw > dive kick safe jump can be done with or without dashing. If you dash mk gf has to be used, if you don’t dash hk gf is best used. The dash is important for timing and placement but it’s not required after forward throw though I recommend it per mix up purposes.


#13

That’s not possible, as you know… 3fr reversal can not be “true” safe jumped (i.e. hit and block). Sorry, if the terms I used were misleading. It’s a safe jump which I intend to use to bait out wake up SRK for punish if no meter or to at least force the opponent to burn two meters. And as it is not possible to see if SRKable or not when dashed (similar to Akuma’s DF palm whiff) it serves well enough for me. First to make the safe jump and -hopefully- punish, after the next throw, use the fake safe jump to force them into block stun into close MP into mix up or counterhit set.

Maybe the late version serves well against Cammy or 4+ reversals. Will test/verify again today evening…


#14

That was my point.

However it is possible using forward throw and using lp from a far enough distance, that is also included in the vids above as well as what you are about to test/verify this evening.

If you feel further testing is needed then be my guest, test away, but almost all of these set ups have been doable since vanilla as the only hard knock down you can’t abuse this way is GF Grab.

Everything else can be safe jumped, fauxed, stuffed, baited, emptied etc. The only real variables are the different wake up times of each character, whether or not they were thrown into the corner, and the variable hits/speeds/distance of when Denjin was landed. This is the primary reason why I advised to set the computer Dummy to jump and to see if you can hit him below the knees and still be able to combo them on their wake up b/c it gives you all the information you need to know. It gives you the jump in timing and it gives you the timing for the characters wake up, especially if you are trying to figure out exactly how Blanka’s wake up works for example.

I’m not sure what you are classifying as late or early dive kick, but everything needs to take place in a certain window. The landing frames are the key for the safe jump and faux, and everything else needs to be stuffed after their invincibility wears off or Gouken will be hit. This only applies to moves with invincibility properties as every thing else will lose to a meaty attack anyway.

Aside from posting the videos of the set ups and explaining why they do/don’t work and how to find the gaps with the different character amongst other discoveries that leads to ambigs safe/ambigs and the unblockable window, I don’t know exactly what I can further offer on the topic.


#15

Not a true set for Safe jump I use but after a sweep jump forward and you can either dive kick early to whiff to bait wake up or u can dive kick late and it his really deep and they have to block standing I had opponents so use to blocking a df dive kick after a sweep and they eat the dive kick trying the crouch block Leading to a huge combo lol


#16

You can safe jump that way, see the above vids. First video post #5.


#17

Climaxter, big ups for making this thread and big ups to all of the Gouken’s who took the time to post vids to illustrate the technique and proof of concept.

[media=youtube]oXp3oTllGBg[/media]


#18

You know, test it yourself… Im done with sharing in forums…

Sorry for not mentioning that this is only a normal safe jump and not a true safe jump vs. 3fr dps. Whole concept is of course worthless now…

Ah, yeah… and good luck with your walking forward frame perfect LP jump in set ups…


#19

You need a hug??

You’re getting bent outta shape bc you late to the party. I should have just let you keep testing and posting instead of trying to help your ass.

Btw I rarely go for the lp safe jump set up, it’s way more fruitful to stuff them, but you can test that too or would you rather find a problem with it because “I” said it?

If you don’t want to post here… Then muthafucka just don’t… It’s that simple, believe me I aint losing sleep over this shit, you’re only short changing yourself, I can give a fux.

And your name is Climaxter now too???!!! If not then let him speak for himself.


#20

LOL. I was hoping this thread would provide character specifics to blow up their wake up antics but now we have poster wars. Look, Gouken is possibly in the top 5 as far as wake up pressure goes behind Akuma, Cammy, Gief and Hakan maybe. Let’s just keep this thread focused on one thing…turning tiers into tears. Keep em’ salty.

My personal request: Killing the green jungle cat on wake up. He can’t hide behind his bullshit hurtbox forever.

Addendum: Does anyone else have a problem doing command divekick (d + mk) going to the right?