Gouken SSFIV Backthrow guide

gouken

#1

Gouken Backthrow guide for SSFIV v1.04
by peteer01

Gouken’s backthrow is one of the things that made me very interested in the character in the first place. I threw my opponent, did 0 damage and 0 stun, and figured that there must be something to this character that I wasn’t getting. Turns out there’s lots of things you can do after a backthrow, and even more in Super than there were in SFIV. Below I’m going to outline the main options that Gouken has on a backthrow, as the best option will depend on how much meter and skill the player has, and what you’re trying to accomplish.

I hope that this guide will help Gouken players use the right follow up in the right situation. As I expect most SSFIV players would have played SFIV to some degree, I’ll also point out the differences between SFIV and Super, as some combos have become more or less attractive due to damage and stun changes.

The beauty of the backthrow is that more than any other situation in the game, once you’ve confirmed the backthrow, everything from that moment is fully under your control, and with the exception of distance to the corner, each backthrow should be the same as every other backthrow you’ve performed. For everything but the most difficult combos below, the execution will be the same for every opponent. Assuming you learn the best follows ups for your style and ability, all you need to do is practice them so that the execution becomes automatic, and you’ll be able to take full advantage of Gouken’s options every time you successfully backthrow.

If I haven’t listed it as an option, it’s likely because I don’t think it’s useful enough to be considered for the level of difficulty required to pull it off, or I’m not aware the option exists. If you feel I’ve left a good option out, please let me know. After each follow up, I’ll list the damage, the stun and the meter gained for each scenario, please note that the meter gain listed does not include the initial 40 meter that you get for successfully backthrowing an opponent. (For now, the meter is based on SFIV data, so if there have been any changes to meter gain, please let me know. 250 meter equals one block of EX stock.)

I’ve grouped possible follow-ups below based on meter requirements:

No EX meter, no Ultra – Basic (non jf.mp) follow-ups

HP Palm (hp Senkugoshoha, which I’ll call palm from this point on)
Unlike lp and mp palm, the timing for hp palm is strict. It does do 10 damage more than mp palm, but tatsu or jf.mp options can do more if your timing is good enough to land hp palm consistently.
140 damage, 200 stun, 20 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy

MP Palm
The easiest move, in my mind, off of a backthrow. Both lp and mp can be mashed until they come out on a backthrow or thrown right around the time the opponent is coming down from the arc of the throw. As non-EX versions of tatsu can be dangerous near a corner, this can be a safe and easy knockdown to use near a corner if you’re used to using tatsu elsewhere.
130 damage, 200 stun, 20 meter Difficulty: Easy

LP Palm
1 frame faster than mp palm, but less damage. I’d recommend mp palm.
120 damage, 200 stun, 20 meter Difficulty: Easy

Standing HP (35 less damage in Super)
So-so damage but decent stun, one of Gouken’s many normals that received a damage nerf, this now does 35 less damage. After a backthrow, you’re at Gouken’s far hp distance (which is no longer does more damage than close hp), which will knock them away and reset them so they land standing almost half a screen away. If you’re in corner when you backthrow, the hp will still be Gouken’s far hp, but your opponent will be slightly closer to you. Pressing the hp button too early will cause the attack to whiff, but the window where you can throw it is relatively large. The advantages over a mp palm is more meter, and you can cancel it into DF, though you’re also able to jump in on your opponent normally as well. One of the few times I think this is absolutely a great option is dizzying your opponent when they’re almost dead, as backthrow followed by st.hp gives great meter for the next round.

In SFIV, [media=youtube]gJSYXJVasm0"]Nos99 demonstrated how canceling an early st.hp with a HK DF kick could be a great reset, especially against certain match-ups. In his own words, “This gives me more time to get the demonflip out and into that sweet spot where divekick beats DPs.” The video is here: [url[/media]. Damage changes and DF divekick changes in Super mean this follow-up is probably not as practical as it was in SFIV.
90 damage, 200 stun, 60 meter Difficulty: Easy (-35 damage)

Crouching HP (20 less damage in Super)
So-so damage but decent stun, one of Gouken’s many normals that received a damage nerf, this now does 20 less damage. This normal has the benefit of being cancelable into demon flip, so in cases where the character does not have a strong reversal they can punish your demon flip with, c.hp canceled into demon flip can be a good way to keep pressuring your opponent. One interesting point about cr. hp is that while both the hits do 80 damage, the first (lower) hit does 200 stun, while the higher hit that you’ll get if you throw the move earlier only does 150 stun. Throw the move later for the 200 stun.
100 damage, 200 stun, 60 meter Difficulty: Relatively Easy

Crouching HK
So-so damage and so-so stun, this normal has the benefit of being an untechable knockdown, so in cases where the character does have a strong reversal to stop resets, or where you just want a hard knockdown, this will allow you to set up so you can apply wake-up pressure however you’d like.
100 damage, 100 stun, 60 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy

HK Tatsu (hk Hurricane Kick, which I’ll call tatsu from this point on)
HK Tatsu does more damage and more stun than Gouken’s forward throw, and feels easier to land on backthrow in Super. Landing all five hits of the HK Tatsu is simply a matter of timing, and it’s pretty easy to hit. However, it’s a bit more difficult to get all 5 hits. The trick to getting all 5 hits is to avoid throwing the move too early. In Super, it seems that the most common results of throwing hk tatsu too early is missing the last hit (doing 130, 160, 50) or second-to-last (doing 165, 180, 50) hit. One problem with HK tatsu is that the opponent will recover quickly relative to you, and for that reason, HK tatsu may not be a good move when the opponent and you will both land near each other in a corner.
From a consistency standpoint, most players will probably find that for meterless damage, HK tatsu is the highest damage off a backthrow. Players that are able to constantly able to land jf.mp into MK tatsu will get an extra 20 damage and 25 stun.
185 damage, 200 stun, 60 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy

LP Hado, Standing HK (I’ll refer to Gouken’s fireballs as “hados” or “FBs”)
New to Super Street Fighter IV, you can now throw both normal and EX hados after a backthrow. This gives Gouken even more options, as some of his backthrow options starting with hados can be quite good. Both lp and mp hado will connect with the opponent after a backthrow, and can be followed with a standing hk. The timing on the standing hk is a bit tight, but it should be possible for any Gouken player with a little practice. This 2-hit combo does good stun, pretty good damage, and leaves the character standing more than half the screen away from you. It is also possible from anywhere on the screen.
165 damage, 250 stun, 80 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy

LP Hado, Crouching HK (Character specific)
This is a tricky one. While it doesn’t work against all of the roster, Gouken can land this outside of the corner. The lp (or mp) hado must be thrown very late and the timing on the cr.hk has to be just right to connect. It does not work against smaller character like Cammy or Juri, and the timing for characters it does work on seems to vary some from character to character. I’m not comfortable enough with the execution to give any advice beyond that, and for me personally, for 5 damage less, I’d rather set the cr.hk up with jf.mp instead. (In addition to the extra 5 damage, the spacing off of lp hado > cr.hk may be more advantageous than the spacing on jf.mp > cr.hk, if you’re able to land both consistently)
155 damage, 150 stun, +80 meter Difficulty: Slightly Difficult - Impossible (depends upon opponent’s character)

LP Hado, Normal of your choice (in corner or near corner only)
After a lp (or mp) hado off a backthrow from the corner, you have your option of basically almost any normal for either a reset or a hard knockdown with cr.hk. I’d say all the hp and hk normals are easy to land. The four most damaging normal options are: st.hk (165), cr.hk (155, hard knockdown, but only 150 stun), st.hp (145), and cr.hp (135)
165-135 damage, 250 stun, +80 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy

LP Hado, MK Tatsu (in corner or near corner only)
When near the corner on a backthrow with no meter, it is possible to follow up a lp or mp hado with a mk tatsu. The timing is not difficult, but a hk tatsu doesn’t seem possible (didn’t try that many times). Not the greatest follow up, but more damage than anything else listed in this section.
210 damage, 225 stun, 70 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy

No EX meter, no Ultra – Advanced follow-ups
All of these follow-ups depend on a Jumping MP to start. When you see a combo off a backthrow start with jumping medium punch, I am referring to hitting with only one of the two hits of the jf.mp, unless I explicitly state otherwise. The hit you want is the hit from Gouken’s elbow. You will know it is the right hit if in Training Mode, with attack data turned on, the hit gives you 50 damage. The 30 damage hit, which we are trying to avoid, changes the juggle state properties of your opponent, and makes most follow-up hits impossible.

The easiest way to explain the timing for the jf.mp is as follows. As soon as you are backthrowing, hold up and back, so that you will be jumping toward your opponent as they fall down from your back throw. Delay the jf.mp so that you’re pressing it at the last moment before their body reappears on the screen. Basically, if you’re hitting with both hits, you want to be throwing the jf.mp later than you are. (It does feel that the timing and window for this has changed slightly in Super, but the elbow juggle hit is the same.)

Jumping Forward MP, HK Tatsu
This was possible against more of the cast in SFIV, but is now very character and timing specific in SSFIV. Obviously, there have been some changes to Gouken’s tatsu, and possibly to his backthrow properties as well (as he can now hit with hados), but this combo is possible against at least the following characters: Guy, Sakura, C.Viper, Hakan, Zangief
235 damage, 250 stun, 100 meter Difficulty: Very difficult - Impossible (depends upon opponent’s character)

Jumping Forward MP, MK Tatsu
This was a great, relatively easy follow up to jf.mp in SFIV, but it is a bit more difficult to connect in Super, and in addition to being more difficult to land it consistently, it seems that it’s impossible to land against Ibuki and Claw. This combo does have much better damage and stun than most options, and I like the fact that you can option select MK tatsu by hitting both lk and mk at the same time, as you’d want to use EX tatsu if you have the meter. While I felt that skilled players should be able to consistently land this outside of games where lag is affecting the timing in SFIV, it now depends on the character you are facing.
Highly recommended against Guy, Sakura, C.Viper, Hakan and Zangief. The ability to hit them with HK tatsu means you should have the easiest time landing MK tatsu consistently against these characters.
205 damage, 225 stun, 90 meter Difficulty: Slightly Difficult - Impossible (depends upon opponent’s character)

Jumping Forward MP, LK Tatsu
Much more consistent than MK tatsu, if you’re able to hit with the single jf.mp hit, you should be able to land lk tatsu every time. However, comparing this with a hado into st.hk, you’re doing 5 damage more for 50 stun less and a slightly more difficult combo, and it does 15 damage less than just throwing HK tatsu.
170 damage, 200 stun, 80 meter Difficulty: Slightly difficult
(lk tatsu is also possible, and comes out much faster, but only for 170, 200, 80)

Jumping Forward MP, Standing HP (5 less damage in Super)
Unlike st.hp, jf.mp > st.hp will use Gouken’s close standing hp, which did less damage in SFIV, but does the same damage here. It will do 20 more damage than cr.hp, but it seems that unlike throwing st.hp immediately after the backthrow, the jf.mp means you will not have the same frame advantage if following with a DF.

One big benefit of jf.mp > st.hp over just normal st.hp after backthrow is that this puts the opponent just inside Gouken’s sweep range, so you can throw cr.hk immediately if you think you can catch your opponent with it.
150 damage, 250 stun, 100 meter Difficulty: Slightly difficult

Jumping Forward MP, Crouching HP (20 less damage in Super)
As with cr.hp, cancelable into demon flip, but with an extra 50 damage, 50 stun and 40 meter. cr.hp can be thrown immediately after landing from jf.mp. One big benefit of jf.mp > cr.hp over just normal cr.hp after backthrow is that this puts the opponent just inside Gouken’s sweep range, so you can throw cr.hk immediately if you think you can catch your opponent with it.
130 damage, 250 stun, 100 meter Difficulty: Slightly difficult

Jumping Forward MP, Crouching HK
As with cr.hk, grants you a hard knockdown so you can apply wake-up pressure however you’d like, but with an extra 50 damage, 50 stun and 40 meter. cr.hk can be thrown immediately after landing from jf.mp.
150 damage, 150 stun, 100 meter Difficulty: Slightly difficult

Jumping Forward MP, Crouching MK
Specifically knocks the opponent away at a distance so that canceling into mk DF can cross up the opponent, while lk DF can throw and normal DF kick the opponent. However, cross up is timing and character dependent, and if you aren’t able to intentionally cross up your opponent, the HP resets will provide more damage, stun and meter without any disadvantages for DF.
120 damage, 150 stun, 80 meter Difficulty: Slightly difficult

Jumping Forward MP, Crouching LK
Allows you the latest possible reset, while looking like you’re going for a sweep for the knockdown. Possibly helpful for catching your opponent off guard, but if they’re not already familiar with the HP and HK resets and knockdowns, you’re better off going with one of those off of jf.mp.
90 damage, 100 stun, 60 meter Difficulty: Slightly difficult

One EX meter, no Ultra

EX Palm
Don’t do this. It’s hard to get the timing for both hits, and regardless of whether or not you can get both hits, you can find a better option in this guide. (Note that you cannot juggle moves normally after this EX palm like you can in a normal EX palm combo!)
160 damage, 150 stun, -250 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy

EX Tatsu
In my mind, this is more difficult than jf.mp > EX tatsu. Getting all eight hits is definitely possible, but so is being slightly off, having your opponent fly out early, and recover in time to punish you. If you’re not 100% on your timing, you probably shouldn’t throw this, and if you are 100% on your timing, throw jf.mp > EX tatsu.
200 damage, 200 stun, -250 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Difficult

Jumping Forward MP, EX Tatsu
This is my favorite thing to do after backthrow. A flashy 9-hit combo that, off Gouken’s backthrow, does more stun and damage than any throw in the game, including Zangief’s hp SPD. Simply throw the EX tatsu immediately after landing from the jf.mp, and you’ll have the right timing every time. A good habit to develop for throwing EX tatsu is to activate the tatsu with lk + mk, that way if you don’t have the meter, mk tatsu will come, which does have a chance to connect.
250 damage, 250 stun, +40, -250 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Difficult

MP Hado, EX Tatsu (in corner or near corner only)
This is safer than throwing EX hado into HK tatsu, as the HK tatsu in the corner isn’t safe while the EX tatsu recovers quicker, but damage wise, you’re giving up a lot by using the meter on the hado instead of the follow up.
255 damage, 250 stun, +20, -250 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Difficult

EX Hado, HK Tatsu (in corner or near corner only)
Not safe, as you’re throwing HK tatsu in the corner, but great damage if you can K.O. or dizzy someone with it. Throwing HK tatsu after an EX hado seems to be pretty easy to do, getting all the hits with both.
305 damage, 360 stun, -250, +60 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Difficult

EX Hado, LP Palm (in corner or near corner only)
Works a surprising distance from the corner. As long as their body’s trajectory is impeded by the wall, and you throw the EX hado and lp palm early enough, it connects. However, it’s location specific, and does less damage than jf.mp into EX tatsu, while requiring somewhat tight timing.
240 damage, 360 stun, -250, +20 meter Difficulty: Moderately Difficult

EX Hado, Normal of your choice (in corner or near corner only)
After an EX Hado, you have your option of basically almost any normal for either a reset or a hard knockdown with cr.hk. With the exception of cr.hk, I’d say all the hp and hk normals are easy to land. The four most damaging normal options are: st.hk (230), cr.hk (220, hard knockdown, but only 260 stun), st.hp (210), and cr.hp (200)
230-200 damage, 360 stun, -250, +60 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Difficult

Two or more EX meter, no Ultra – non-FADC follow-ups
In each of the following combos, you’ll be throwing EX hados to juggle your opponent in the corner. Depending on your opponent, it may not be possible to juggle as many EX hados as you have EX stock for. I am listing the main options below using 4 EX bars, but it is possible to simply throw less EX hados for either meter or combo feasibility reasons. Should anyone really want to see the damage break down for each EX, let me know, but it should be enough to know that you want to throw as many EX hados as you can but still finish your combo. (Balrog is probably the easiest character to perform these on, and Seth is not far behind and significantly easier to stun.)

EX Hado, EX Hado, EX Hado, EX Hado, Normal of your choice (in corner or near corner only)
After an EX Hado, you have your option of basically almost any normal for either a reset or a hard knockdown with cr.hk. With the exception of cr.hk, I’d say all the hp and hk normals are easy to land. The four most damaging normal options are: st.hk (486), cr.hk (480, hard knockdown, but only 620 stun), st.hp (474), and cr.hp (468)
486-468 damage, 680 stun, -1000, +60 meter Difficulty: Very Difficult

EX Hado, EX Hado, EX Hado, EX Hado, LP Palm (in corner or near corner only)
More damage than ending with a normal, but safer than ending with HK Tatsu.
492 damage, 680 stun, -1000, +60 meter Difficulty: Very Difficult

EX Hado, EX Hado, EX Hado, EX Hado, HK Tatsu (in corner or near corner only)
More damage than any other non-Ultra backthrow combo I am aware of. The four EX hados seem much easier to pull of in Super than they were in SFIV.
531 damage, 680 stun, -1000, +60 meter Difficulty: Very Difficult

Two EX meter, no Ultra – FADC follow-ups
All of the combos below for 2 and 3 EX meter are advanced combos that start with FADCing the first hit of tatsu, and you must dash in for each combo below. The properties of FADCing a tatsu depend on the opponent’s character, so these combos are not one size fit all. You must use LK tatsu with Cammy, Honda and Abel in place of MK tatsu, which will do five less damage, and will hit three frames sooner. Adjust the damage and timing accordingly for those characters. (See this post by Nos99 for more details on tatsu > FADC and turn around) (I have not tested on any of the new characters.)

Each FADC combo listed below is also followed by either lp hado or EX hado. As with any dash-in FADC, you must return the joystick to a neutral state before inputting the hado motion, otherwise the dash input followed by hado motion will create a DP motion, and lp palm or EX palm will come out instead. The earlier you are able to hit with tatsu, the more time you will have after your FADC to throw hado, and if you hit early, you can connect with a mp hado instead of a lp hado against some characters, although there is no benefit to using mp hado, nor does it enable any additional combos that I am aware of.

Even with the proper tatsu strength and execution, many backthrow > tatsu > FADC combos are character specific, and are noted as such below:

MK tatsu, FADC-in, LP hado, Crouching HK (15 less damage and 50 less stun in Super)
High damage, hard knockdown.
Works vs all SFIV characters except Fei/Cammy/Chun/Viper/Fuerte/Sakura
200 damage, 230 stun, +20, -500, +80 meter Difficulty: Very difficult

MK tatsu, FADC-in, LP hado, Standing HK (15 less damage and 50 less stun in Super)
Finishes with Gouken’s far HK, resetting your opponent quite far away, with so-so damage and stun.
Works vs everyone
208 damage, 310 stun, +20, -500, +80 meter Difficulty: Very difficult

MK tatsu, FADC-in, LP hado, Crouching HP (31 less damage and 50 less stun in Super)
Resets the opponent closer than finishing with st.hk, but is less damage and character specific.
Works vs everyone except Shotos/Chun/Honda/Sagat/Abel/Fuerte
184 damage, 310 stun, +20, -500, +80 meter Difficulty: Very difficult

Three EX meter, no Ultra – Advanced follow-ups
Interested in feedback, as I’m thinking about removing or combining the below grey combos. It’s seems pretty difficult to even land the EX hado after the MK tatsu > FADC-in, and I didn’t have the patience to do the below combos in writing up the first version of this guide.

MK tatsu, FADC-in, EX hado, Crouching HK
High damage, hard knockdown.
Works vs Sagat/Vega/Balrog/Gen
285 damage, 380 stun, +20, -750, +60 meter Difficulty: Very difficult

MK tatsu, FADC-in, EX hado, Standing MK
Resets the opponent closer by finishing with far st.mk, and works on most characters.
Works vs Fei/Cammy/Gouken/Honda/Zangief/Seth/Sagat/Vega/Balrog/Viper/Rufus/Fuerte/Sakura/Gen
265 damage, 360 stun, +20, -750, +40 meter Difficulty: Very difficult

MK tatsu, FADC-in, EX hado, Standing HK
Finishes with Gouken’s far HK, resetting your opponent quite far away, with good damage and stun, but unlike lp hado version, does not work on all characters.
Works vs Fei/Gouken/Honda/Zangief/Seth/Sagat/Vega/Balrog/Rufus/Gen
293 damage, 460 stun, +20, -500, +60 meter Difficulty: Very difficult

HK tatsu, FADC-in, EX tatsu
Something that at least a few people, myself included, originally thought was impossible off of backthrow. Not sure how many characters this works on, but it’s definitely possible to connect with all 8 of the EX tatsu hits against Balrog. The HK means your FADC-in will cross under opponent. This combo seems substantially easier in Super than it was in SFIV
Confirmed with Balrog, should work with others.
270 damage, 300 stun, +20, -1000, +60 meter Difficulty: Moderately difficult


#2

HK tatsu, FADC-in, EX hado, HK tatsu (Opponent in corner)
This combo starts with throwing the opponent out of the corner on backthrow, crossing under them with a FADC-in, knocking them back in the corner with both hits of an EX hado, and then landing a full HK tatsu. Nos99 captured [media=youtube]v3V2k943pHI"[/media]. Aside from extreme difficulty in executing this in a match, the other concern is that it is an HK tatsu in the corner, but if it’s enough damage to KO your opponent, there are very few ways to win with more style.
Should work against Fei/Cammy/Gouken/Honda/Zangief/Seth/Sagat/Vega/Balrog/Viper/Rufus/Fuerte/Sakura/Gen, confirmed against Rufus
358 damage, 460 stun, +20, -750 meter Difficulty: Impossible? (Is this possible in SSFIV?)

Full EX meter, no Ultra
Super (Forbidden Shoryuken, which I’ll just call Super from here on out.)
Not the best way to throw this, but 345 damage landed correctly. If you throw it too early, you will do less damage. Doesn’t matter if you use lp, mp or hp for the super off of backthrow.
345 damage, 0 stun, -1000 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy
(If you hit early with Super, expect 260 damage)

Jumping Forward MP, Super
This is attractive for a few reasons. First, you can throw super after hitting with both hits of jf.mp, it does not require you to hit with just the elbow, so it’s not as risky or demanding as most jf.mp combos. Second because supers don’t scale with the extra hit like ultras, you can still get the full 345 damage after the 50 damage from the jf.mp. Lastly, while it’s not very likely that it’s the jf.mp hit that gives you Super, the jf.mp does give you a small amount of meter and stun. Throw super as soon as landing from the jf.mp for all 7 hits, and mp strength (same button) works just fine.
395 damage, 50 stun, +40, -1000 meter Difficulty: Moderately Difficult
(If you hit both punches of the jf.mp, expect 340 damage, 100 stun and 60 meter)

LP Hado, Super
The easy way to do 400 damage off backthrow with Gouken’s super. Much like mashing out the palm into super in SFIV, here you can just keep doing FB motions and hitting punch. Between ease of use and damage output, this is probably the best way to throw super from a backthrow. The only downside I see compared to the other options is you’re only getting 50 stun.
400 damage, 50 stun, +20, -1000 meter Difficulty: Relatively Easy

MP Palm, Super
Mashers paradise! This may be the easiest and most brainless DP motion move > super in the game. You can mash out the mp palm, and just keep throwing the fireball motions and hitting mp…it’ll cancel the palm hit into super.

Yes, you can do the same thing with better execution, but the point is, this is something every Gouken should be able to do on backthrow if they have full EX meter. Always better than throwing just the super, and the mp strength won’t make any difference on the super’s effect, so go ahead and use mp for the whole thing. (The only thing you have to make sure of is that the mp palm doesn’t stun them, otherwise you’ll end up hitting nothing but air with that super.)
390 damage, 200 stun, +20, -1000 meter Difficulty: Relatively Easy
(Using lp palm instead of mp palm to start this super cancel reduces total damage by 10 to 380, but activating the super with lp or hp instead of mp makes no difference.)

HP Palm, Super
One of two ways you can do 400 damage off backthrow with Gouken’s super. The tighter timing for just 10 extra damage doesn’t seem worth it to me, but if you can pull it off every time, this is the way to maximize your damage.
400 damage, 200 stun, +20, -1000 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy

Ultra I ready, no EX meter
Ultra I (Also known as Shin Shoryuken, but I’ll just call it Ultra I or U1) (15 less damage in Super)
Congrats, your opponent is waiting in fear as his body flies over your head. The ability to land an unscaled U1 is one of the greatest parts of the backthrow, and any time you have U1 ready and manage to land a backthrow, your goal should be landing the three hit version of the ultra on your opponent. (Admittedly, if you’re not confident landing the ultra, and you don’t need the full 3-hit damage to win, just go ahead and throw the ultra out quickly to be sure you land it.)
503 damage, 0 stun, 0 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy
(The 503 damage assumes a full ultra meter, and if you throw the same ultra too early, you should get at least 378 damage from the 7-hit version. Interestingly, while the 3-hit was reduced to 503, the 7-hit does the same damage as in SFIV.)

Jumping Forward MP, Ultra I (11 less damage in Super)
This is just for showboating. No other reason to do it, unless you know the reduced damage of the ultra will still kill them and you really want that extra 40 meter for the next round. That said, it could give you a slight psychological advantage if you KO them this way. One benefit of this method is that throwing Ultra as soon as you land from the jf.mp will always give you the 3-hit version of the ultra, but if your timing is good enough to consistently land jf.mp for one hit, you should be able to land the 3-hit version of the ultra consistently without jf.mp.)
453 damage, 50 stun, 40 meter Difficulty: Moderately Difficult
(Unlike in SFIV, where if you hit with both hits from the jf.mp, you could still throw ultra for two hits and a total of 158 damage, if you hit with both hits of jf.mp in SSFIV, U1 will whiff completely.)

Ultra I ready, EX meter
MK tatsu, FADC-in, EX hado, EX hado, Ultra I (Near corner) (45 less damage in Super)
Not very practical, but from the right distance from the corner, if you backthrow the opponent towards the corner you can juggle both hits of two EX hados followed Ultra for the 3-hit version. It is also possible (and easier) to throw U1 after only one EX hado. If you’re close enough to the corner, start the combo from the EX hados.
Number of EX hados you can juggle is likely character specific
583 damage, 380 stun, +20, -1000 meter Difficulty: Very difficult

EX hado, EX hado, EX hado, EX hado, Ultra I (in corner or near corner only)
The more EX hados you can throw before comboing into U1, the better. Ultra I should come out as a 3-hit version whenever you throw it, as long as you don’t throw it too late, in which case it will whiff completely.
Number of EX hados you can juggle is likely character specific
668 damage, 560 stun, -1000 meter Difficulty: Very difficult

Ultra II ready, no EX meter
Ultra II (Uncharged) (Also known as Denjin Hadoken, but I’ll just call it Ultra II or U2)
Not as much damage as comboing into U2 or charging it.
255 damage, 400 stun, 0 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy

Ultra II (Charged)
Throwing U2 as soon as possible after backthrow and very briefly charging it (I believe it’s only 3 frames) will cause Denjin to do more damage and stun.
315 damage, 500 stun, 0 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Difficult

Jumping Forward MP, Ultra II
Unlike every other combo in this guide that uses jf.mp, you actually want to hit with both hits before throwing U2. U2 will connect for all hits after hitting with both hits of jf.mp.
284 damage, 420 stun, 0 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Easy

Ultra II ready, EX meter
EX hado, EX hado, EX hado, EX hado, Ultra II (in corner or near corner only)
The more EX hados you can throw before comboing into U2, the better.
Number of EX hados you can juggle is likely character specific
541 damage, 760 stun, -1000 meter Difficulty: Very difficult

EX Palm, Ultra II (Charged) (in corner or somewhat near corner only)
This is the one time that EX Palm makes sense off a backthrow. For this to work, you need to make sure you hit with both hits of the EX palm. If the opponent’s trajectory is impeded by the wall (which is possible from over 5 large training stage squares away from the wall) you can throw U2. While I’m sure there’s a small area far from the corner where you can throw U2, but don’t have the 3 frames to charge, for the most part, it’s much easier to charge U2 after an EX palm than it is when throwing just U2 as soon as possible after backthrow. In my opinion, the rickiest part when you are close to the corner is that it’s very easy to throw U2 too early.
402 damage, 550 stun, -250 meter Difficulty: Somewhat Difficult

The above combos are a combination of the most powerful and best risk/reward follow-ups to backthrow that I am aware of, and my personal preferences are in blue. The one exception is that I’m not recommending either hk tatsu or cr.mp > mk tatsu as the best option for maximizing meterless damage after backthrow, as I’m not honestly not sure which to recommend with the new timing in Super. Due to the changes in SSFIV, I’ve actually changed a decent number of the backthrow options that I use, and I hope this guide will be helpful for some of the SSFIV players who might have played some Gouken in SFIV. I hope this guide gives people who are trying to figure out how to use Gouken one less thing to wonder about, and helps people use backthrow to its maximum potential. Please let me know of any corrections or questions you may have for this guide.

(Thanks to Nos99, Raunwynn, Yusuka, artificeren, Twin Rhapsody, iamthatiam, Souchan, factory9 and everyone else at SRK who’s helped me learn!)

In closing, one fun, pointless and difficult combo you can try off a backthrow in Training Mode, and a few combos from the old guide that have been removed from this one (and the reason why):

Focus Attack, dash-in, Super
Done correctly, you should be able to hit your opponent with an uncharged FA as they come down from the backthrow, then dash in and throw Super for 6 hits, giving you 273 damage from 7 hits. It’s easier said than done, but I’ve been able to land it a few times in training mode. (And it always does 273 damage…)

Combos that were in the SFIV guide but removed from the Super guide:
MK tatsu, FADC-in, EX hado, EX hado, Standing HP (Near corner)
No reason to do this in Super. This was a unique combo in SFIV in that it did more damage with four EX bars than the options to throw Gouken’s super did, but thanks to changes to EX hado and the nerf to st.hp, that’s not the case of this combo. Regardless, if you were in the same situation in SSFIV, there’d almost certainly be no reason to FADC, since you can probably just start throwing EX hados, and if you did start with the MK tatsu, you’d be able to finish with a lp palm or hk tatsu for more damage. (In SFIV, it was 405 damage, 510 stun and was confirmed on Balrog and Seth)

MK tatsu, FADC-in, EX hado, EX hado, lp hado, Ultra (Near corner)
Not sure if it’s possible, but I couldn’t get a lp hado to hit after EX hados on a backthrow. Didn’t try very much, as it’s not practical, but it’d be nice to know if anyone can confirm if it is or isn’t possible.
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#3

reserved


#4

Sorry for the long delay in writing this. I’ve got about 200 hours in SSFIV, but just cracked C+ with Gouken tonight. Bizarrely I can still play Gouken reasonably well against skilled people, but got destroyed with Gouken at a lower level while having better success with quite a few characters while working on the C to Shining C challenge.

I could definitely use people’s advice, discoveries, recommendations and input for this guide. More than anything, I simply don’t know how to use U2 after a backthrow, and I’m sure there’s some other new options I’m just not aware of. Hopefully, with some help from other SRK Gouken players, this guide can become a helpful resource for a lot of us.

That said, it’s 4:30AM, and this took way longer than I expected, so any updates will have to wait until I am well rested.


#5

Great Contribution Peteer01!!!


#6

I applaud your organizational skills…I’ve been using backthrow ex tatsu…fadc-in…f.mp…reset works on all the cast. Even the shorties. Not great. But I’m weird I like it as a finisher.


#7

Just got an idea… does backthrow > mp/hp hado > lp/mp palm work?

If it does, it will be great news… the damage should be more than the stand alone tatsu and you have time for a meaty hado after the palm, instead of losing your momentum with Tatsu.

If it doesn’t work mid screen then that will be a bummer.


#8

doesn’t work unfortunately.


#9

Just a noob question, when u guys are under pressure blocking, do u guys keep pressing lp+lk & hk?


#10

lp + lk + mk


#11

Huh. Already learning new things. :slight_smile: Decided to try EX Hado into U2, which is actually a great idea. EX Hado off backthrow is pointless with U1 because you’ll never get the 3-hit version, but U2 not only fully connects, but you can do it from way outside of the corner and still have time to charge.

Thanks. Took longer than expected, but also learned more than expected.

With Balrog, it really looks like a perfectly timed hado into perfectly timed lp palm would work in the corner, but I seem to be just barely missing it. Since it’d be so situational and difficult, even if it is possible, I can’t see it being worth it, although it would be huge damage if you could do it and follow with Super.


#12

I guess the corner stuff will be ok for Super or Denjin but it’s not what I was looking for and hoping to find out. :frowning: The only time I like to Tatsu from backthrow is if I need the damage, wan’t to re-zone or both, so I was looking for a way to set up a meaty hado > GF frame trap on their wake up so I can apply pressure. You can do it from palm now but it’s more effective after EX Palm > Palm.


#13

The silver lining is that cr.hk was one of Gouken’s only hp/hk moves that didn’t receive a damage nerf. I had that move **recommended **in the SFIV backthrow guide, and it seems even better relative to his other options in Super.

If you are in the corner, you can also hado > normal of choice for an extra 5 damage compared to using cr.hk after jf.mp. I didn’t put it in the guide the first time, but it belongs there, so I added it in.


#14

For characters with bad wake up that back throw > lp hado > cr. hk > meaty safe jump is some fierce shit.


#15

I just realized that you can actually lp hado > cr.hk from anywhere on screen! I did not know that was possible. Is that character specific? I couldn’t seem to get it on Juri or Cammy, seems to only work on mid-large sized characters. Do you actually use it in matches? I find it much harder than the jf.mp > cr.hk. (Any advice on how to perform it more consistently?)

(Added lp hado > cr.hk to the guide)


#16

Depends on who I am fighting and if I want to keep them close by. On characters with a small hit box like Juri and Cammy it’s about 2 more but I can’t remember right now you’d use j. mp > cr. roundhouse if you don’t want them to get away and you’d like untech > Vortex. So yes it is character specific but lp hado > cr. roundhouse works on 85% of the cast. Even after your safe jump ~ cr. round house works on 85% of the cast, Nevillebamshew took the liberty to talk about a lot of it, but it can go over some peoples head thus you hear that Gouken sucks shit. I think other wise but thats just my pov. Maybe I’m retarded, but I feel like if you make the right choices with him, he can be very deadly, and people out right disregard that all of his EX moves have invincibility frames, I dunno maybe I’m just stupid.

I land j. mp > cr. roundhouse and lp hado > cr. roundhouse pretty consistently… Lp hado > cr. roundhouse is pretty easy and efficient. For j. mp > cr. roundhouse I just kept going in training mode until I got the timing right and I still mess around in it to keep working on it I prob land it 7-8 times outta 10, I’m still working on that and trying to perfect all of his 1 frame links/hits including the recoveries of other characters moves.

EEach character has a different hit box so the timing will be a little different for each character type…

For example if you are on offense and: EX Palm FADC > J. mp > lp hado > cr. hk on Balrog, you must hit him in the balls pretty late to make it work.

For Dudleys Hp Machine Gun Buff, you have to hit him when you fully extends his arm for the uppercut etc. I think it’s -5 so you have an extra frame to lp > Tatsu. :slight_smile: (You just have to pay attention to which rush punch he does and watch how many times they hit. His Hp and EX verisions are punishable.

But back to discuss the back throw. I’ve been using empty jump in or tick jump in and going straight into EX GF for a mix up at point blank range. It gives you all sorts of options since he’s invincible on start up and you have access to the tools with in the flip. You can even cross up with the dive kick > whatever. Alot of times when they try to reverse they whiff you can punish with a back throw. Just a thought.


#17

Thanks for the info on hado > cr.hk, and I updated the hado > cr.hk entry and added a thanks at the bottom.

Still wondering, does anyone know if jf.mp into HK tatsu is at all possible in Super? (It certainly was in Vanilla.)


#18

So I found that on Guy, you can do a j.MP to HK Tatsu after a backthrow.

There may be more people it can be done on, but Guy is the only one I know of so far.


#19

You can also catch them with a lk tatsu after a 2 hit jumping mp if you are jumping in the air to counter hit. The first few will whiff, but the last 2 hits will land. Sweet.


#20

So far(though I’ve only done a quick run, so I stand to possibly be corrected^^)
Ibuki, Claw: Can’t even be hit by j.MP, MK Tatsu only EX or LK Tatsu
Guy, Sakura, C.Viper, Hakan, Zangief: Can be hit by j.MP, HK Tatsu

I’m surprised at Honda and T Hawks absence from the HK list. I could swear honda could get hit by it in vanilla too and Hawk is well huge, but I guess that’s not a requirement for this to hit :frowning: