Gouken vs. Zangief

gouken

#1

As if we didn’t have enough trouble, they go and give him this shit.

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Not even considering Blind Select so you won’t know what the hell is going on or the fact that he can throw you for non tech and cross you up with the shit.

You can’t jump away, it reverses everything, you can cross up with it, and activate it any where in the air… from the looks of it you can only teleport or backdash or you are screwed. Gouken’s doesn’t have a teleport and his back dash is shit. They need to fix this shit FAST.


#2

it seems like an ultra that only works as a guess.
what if they dont jump?


#3

I’m Blonde today for some reason… I see what you mean, the opponent will actually have to jump into that shit for it to be effective.


#4

On another note, I was lurking in the Gief forum and came across some of his nerfs. LOL

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=230365&page=1


#5

Yeah I don’t know about that super… I’m still going to spam demon flip kick lol


#6

Raun is right. It’s going to be a one-time guess on Gief’s part. And Gouken has excellent anti-airs that do not require him to leave the ground… I’d conjecture that Gief’s Ultra II will be more dangerous for shotos.


#7

Yeah, Gief was my main for a while, but there’s only so many ways you can play him, and I moved on to Gouken, where I’m enjoying the range of options more. As someone who knows him pretty well, I can say that I feel bad for anyone who’s still maining Gief after hearing about nerf after nerf with him. Hopefully (for them) it’s not as bad as it sounds, but it sounds bad.


#8

Yeah, Ultra 1 is prob still going to his go to Ultra vs. Gouken, however it does make me wonder how effective it would be against mis-timed Demon Flips. I guess that will have to be a guess as well, but it needs to happen FAST. We can now use Air Tatsu to GTFO on Gief, but with that II Ultra we will have to stick to staying on the ground as his 2nd Ultra may beat the Tatsu if it’s not done correctly. It will also discourage neutral jumping to punish Lariat and Green Hand, so it’s bascially stay your ass on the ground if he has it and get ready to anti air. Many of Giefs Ultra II lands will be guess work and some will be a skillful set up, don’t forget the opponent can also buffer the motion and if they hit any other button that 3p or 3k then Ultra is not going off (much like buffering Goukens Ultra vs. Blanka and Balrog). I think it’s going to be harder to land than Ultra 1 but he will also have his opportunities as well vs. characters with moves that require them to leave their feet.

The bright side is, he will be Free for a Cr. FP or Hado > Palm tag for jumping so much. So the risk/reward looks like it will be in Goukens favor in theory… but don’t sleep.


#9

ultra 1 works really well against my gouken.
i cant see a gief hitting me more often with ultra 2.
i thought it was really funny when gief used it on blanka’s rainbow roll though!


#10

I looks funny when he uses it on anyone, except if you are the opponent. LOL


#11

There’s actually no need to jump at all in this fight. Even if you block EX Green Hand, you still get a combo and Gouken’s ground pokes beat Gief’s jumpins. Gief would be best off using Ultra 1.


#12

As long as it doesn’t grab you when you’re grounded, it won’t have any use against someone with no anti-air moves!


#13

From a general stand point yes, but I’d love to see those pokes beat an empty jump in > grab on your wake up, that threat alone makes you either want to jump to avoid being grabbed = an opportunity for Gief to Ultra 2 you.

I guess you could back dash out and hope not to eat the lariat or green hand though.


#14

Nah, it’d get you.

The main properties that would need hammering out in the lab are the amount of startup and active frames the grab has, as this will tell you what is safe to counter with and what is doable by the Gief. But straight off the bat, EX Flip would avoid it if the Gief safe jumps.


#15

Right, and aside from safe jump you have the opportunity to AA or whatever. I’m ready for that frame data!!!