Guile > Bison easily? Explain plz

guile

#1

I made up this topic a while ago but never really got an accurate answer.
I am always reading and seeing ppl say that Bison is Guile’s easiest match up and Guile should not lose
vs Bison at all when played properly.
Chaoztheory showed me a while ago that Bison has an empty jump that avoids cr.HP all the time.
Once Guile is trapped in the corner I can’t see what do to.
There are Bison players who are not too good and I can beat them usually on a consistent basis, but
whenever I see a Bison player who actually knows what they are doing usually Bison players
who are legit in the 5k PP range I struggle to see why so many ppl say this match up is so easy for Guile.
IIRC even Yazu lost on his last tournament vs a Bison player although he did play perfect.

I have been playing Guile for 4 years now and ye that happens everytime when I face a Bison on this skill lvl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7rEYzPQzwU

It’s been a while but I did watch the set of xupyourgamex vs True.
I know for sure xupyourgamex is a solid Guile player and games like this show that this MU is not as easy as many ppl say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6bGJdBWJ-Q

By the way Truetalent plays a decent Bison but I have beaten him twice in FT5 sets in the past. He is decent but his sportsmanship is poor until he got popular abd tbh when you look up at
high lvl Bison players like the WDM guy above or Gagapa how is Guile supposed to play to actually keep up?

Anyone explain.


"This thread is delicious!"-The Bison Social
#2

I was reckless in my match against TrueTalent. lol. I was also hellbent on doing something irrational no matter what the cost. lol.


#3

What would you suggest to keep Bison out?
Seems like from the right distance when Bison tries to jump in he will either empty jump you or his j.HP will stuff FK.


#4

Recognize the distance that the Dictator is using to jump in to force the whiff anti air cr.hp and mess up that spacing by walking slightly forward. Similar to stuffing Seth’s jump in Dive kick.

EDIT: The tiniest step forward can make the biggest difference.


#5

Will be going into the lab later of today again when I come home from study.
Hopefully Chaoztheory is online as well today.


#6

Without even referring to matches for now, just think about the character archetypes.

Bison wants to get in, try to apply pressure with LK scissors, pokes and throws.

Guile wants to keep Bison out. Forget combos, a basic Guile with sonic boom, st.HP, appropriate anti-airs and air throw on reaction are all pretty effective.

Now, you may argue when Bison has Guile cornered, Guile is at a disadvantage.

The same could be argued in the Zangief vs Sagat matchup. But whose favour is that in?
There is no doubt that when Zangief gets a knockdown and has Sagat trapped in the corner, that Zangief has Sagat at a disadvantage.

BUT at what price did Zangief have to pay to get in that situation? His life bar. For Zangief to overcome Sagat zoning, he pays with his lifebar.
It is difficult for Zangief to GET IN and maintain pressure and apply his mixups. And that is the main reason, Sagat is considered one of Zangief’s worst matchups.

This may not apply EXACTLY to the BISON/GUILE matchup, but you get the idea.

Finally, although TruTalent and Nemesys are both good players, I wouldn’t provide evidence of the matchup with online NETPLAY.

Here’s offline tournament footage of some players you may or may not know…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RXj1pEXBIE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9xMS2Slvus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGpGg5zfeu0


#7

When you are a legit 5k guile and have consistent problems with legit 5k bisons - come back, we’ll talk. As of now you just lose to a better player in matchup that is ridiculously in your favor


#8

You have to notice that Dieminion is on another lvl though.
I can keep up with the majority of Bison players I have played so far which are in the 4-5k PP range and which do compete on tournaments on a regular basis.
There are a lot of arguments going on around this MU, but I am sure I am not the only one that actually struggles to beat a GOOD Bison player that knows what he is actually doing.
Besides this was the first Bison player who has actually beaten me in a set during the last 3 years, but I never rly felt that this MU does favor Guile as much as many ppl claim it to be.
IIRC the Japanese tier list states this MU as 5/5 in AE2012.

I hit the lab the last few days once again trying to figure out some stuff. I figured out some stuff which I will try to cover asap in a short vid kinda like GeoM MoD’s vids "wtf should I do vs "inserts character name"
I will come back to this topic once again when I face this Bison again online.


#9

**Let me re-iterate the arguments you have presented so far.

  • You, yourself, LiangHuBBB are basing the ENTIRE matchup on your OWN PERSONAL ONLINE EXPERIENCE as Guile.
  • You EVALUATE a Bison player’s skill level PURELY on the amount of points they have OBTAINED ONLINE. (from your previous posts on SRK, it seems you care a lot about points)
  • You say the JAPANESE TIER LIST says the matchup is 5/5. I assume you take the JAPANESE TIER LIST to be the ultimate reference guide.
  • You have presented a video of 2 ONLINE players who are playing intercontinentally (USA to IRELAND) as evidence of the matchup.
    *** Notice how I posted a video of Nuckledu as well and NOT ONLY Dieminion.*** (Conveniently ignored)
    **
    I have been civil and waited for a somewhat intelligent argument, but from the points you have raised I have to conclude that you are truly stupid. I don’t know if you have a reading difficulty, maybe English is not your first language or are just plain unable to form an intelligent argument.

Re-read what you are saying and tell me you are not a moron.

Thank goodness you have some form of skill in video editing, because it does not appear that you are skilled in anything else.

EDIT: This kinda reminds me of the retards who blindly demanded buffs and nerfs, simply because they “main” a character. No credentials, no one knows who they are and no consideration on how it will affect the game as a whole.


#10

Mere seconds later on YOUTUBE, LiangHuBBB sends this to me. Perhaps out of spite?

#1)

http://imageshack.us/a/img845/3567/17nd.jpg

EDIT: More angry mail from LiangHuBBB…

My reply to #1)

You like your points don’t you? Post the most intelligent argument on SRK where EVERYONE can see. I have presented my side. You have failed to retaliate any of my points.

#2)

http://imageshack.us/a/img9/6384/dxuq.jpg

#3)

http://imageshack.us/a/img202/975/e335.jpg

Sigh debating with a child.

Comments deleted soon after. But I still have the email notifications as proof.


#11

I thought it was a common fact that lianghubbb is terminally retarded.


#12

Can I see the tier list you are talking about ?


#13

I played Guile for a month and a half as of now and beat Bison players who’ve been playing since release with no difficulty. The thing is, its all about who knows the matchup better - a Bison player will know the Guile matchup like the back of his hand simply because its his worst matchup, and he will need everything he can to get an advantage on Guile, on the other hand, a Guile player might not learn the matchup simply because he knows its his easiest matchup. If someone knows the ins and outs of his bad matchup and you dont then a disadvantaged matchup is not so bad.


#14

Yo delusional just post the whole discussion you just had with me on youtube plus the 2 pms you just sent me.
You probably won’t.
I never stated this MU was in Bison’s favor. I stated that this MU is not as easy as many ppl claim it to be.
But w/e. Feel free to make your opinion on whatever you want.


#15

Errr… that was the whole discussion. I can no longer even post it since you deleted the comments as soon I put them on SRK.

EDIT: 2 pms? I only replied once to your comment. If an extra one somehow slid past me, feel free to screenshot it.


#16

@delusional11,

I uhh…actually play offline also. :smiley:


#17

I was referring only to the actual footage shown. Hope I didn’t step on too many other people’s feet.


#18

I’m just being sarcastic. lol. I knew what you meant in your previous post.


#19

Hmmm, Lets see.
From watching alot of offline tournament matches between guile and bison I must say it is tilted considerably in Guiles favor

Bison has a floaty jump which Guile can throw a late boom and still recover in time to crHP him. any decent guile player knows his AA ranges and the empty jump technique is risky because Guile has different good buttons to deal with any kind of air assault that Bison can throw. this is the match that Guile can even afford to jump in on Bison at close range and bison has to block but ideally Guile only jump in this match to either air to air HK or to air grab bison

On the ground Guile has nothing to fear from Bison because bison has NO reliable way past sonic booms, Guile will rather not attempt to even play footsie with bison so Bisons mid range buttons are somewhat negated. If for some reason Bison succeeds to get in (after losing a whole lot of health going through booms) he has only 2 options on guile:

  1. crLK scissors kick
  2. Throw

Bison headstomp in this match has very little use IMO since his follow up is no threat that is if the Guile doesn’t punish him for attempting the move.

Guile has nothing much to fear from Bison and this is a match that a Bison player needs a team of advisers in his corner to win while Guile player can keep a bottle of lemonade in his corner and still win.

As long as the Guile player remains calm and monitors the air and ground the Bison players has a LONG UPHILL BATTLE in front of him


#20

More from LiangHuBBB who looks like he is unable to form an intelligent reply on SRK, so it’s come down to random messages through Youtube.

http://imageshack.us/a/img202/3812/am9y.png

EDIT: All these messages he has sent have been with him being the initiator of contact.