Guile in Super Street Fighter IV (arcade version)

guile

#1

I’ve got the idea from this thread. Basically, what reasonable changes, if any, would you like to see for Guile in the arcade version of SSFIV which will soon commence location tests in Japan? Do you think that the developers will provide Guile with any changes at all? If so, will those changes be positive or negative in your opinion?

I think the ideal goal is NOT to make Guile stronger overall, so that he dominates certain characters even more so than he dominates them right now, but simply to give him a slight boost in his bad match ups (i.e., Akuma, Abel, C.Viper, El Fuerte, etc.). Guile’s wake up defense isn’t the worst in the game, but he’s left pretty defenseless against any character who a) can approach and knock him down regulary and b) has numerous options on offense that one can’t react to. You can’t fix (a). That is, you can’t improve his zoning and keep away game any more. Characters like Dictator, Dudley, and E.Honda would have even less chances of beating him. However, you can fix (b) in some form or another to assist Guile in his bad match ups. I’m not saying that he should get Rose’s U2, a free, out of jail card ultra combo, but something could be done with his U1 to make it more effective defensively. Perhaps make it a lot faster. Make it anti-cross up but reduce its damage to 40%-45%. U1 does more damage now but its uses are still fairly limited. I think that the developers can improve this ultra combo to help Guile in his bad match ups and not affect the match ups that he’s already good at.

Comments? Opinions? Other suggestions?

PS: Am I the only Guile player who’d like to see Remy in SSFIV arcade? The engine of the III series did this man no service. He has always been considered a low tier character because of the ineffectiveness of fireballs. In the IV series, Remy could be a viable character if he were to be implemented appropriately since the IV engine fits his gameplay style a lot more to say the least. If Capcom can add another stupid dive kick character, it can surely add another charge fireball character.


#2

What if they added a vacuum onto U1, would that help at all? Cus the main problem with that ultra is it doesn’t autocombo. A damage buff on the last hit was nice, but that doesn’t fix the problem of it hitting (on average) only 3 times.

Also, and I know this is quite a bit to ask (given that he’s already considered top tier), but could FK be fixed so it actually works? Preferably a hit box change as opposed to quicker recovery. As is, there’s not much point in using it outside of combos.


#3

guile works now, leave him alone. he’s not over or underpowered. he’s fine how he is. giving him more stuff without nerfs would make him near broken. vanilla guile with no buffs other than sonic hurricane would still do really well in super imo.


#4

your option B can be solved with blocking and teching as well as match up knowledge, if you give Guile a very good get the hell out of me move which can counter cross ups, all his 6-4 or 7-3 match ups will become 9-1 or 10-0, and his bad matches will become 6-4 his favour.

If it were not for his bad cross up defence, he would be the best character in the game. The only reason Abel, el feurte and Viper eats Guile is because of cross up, remove that and they have NOTHING to threaten Guile.

However, I wish they could improve Ultra 1 first Flash kick juggle. Only the third hit of his first kick juggles properly on airborne opponent, and only the third hit juggles after super. It would be nice if it auto correct into an animation like most ultras or auto correct ala Rufus Ultra 1, but that would be asking too much.

Also check the Guile hitbox thread, you can clearly see that only the part during the first flash kick in ultra 1, when his invincibility frames runs out, his hitbox covers his back, as well as with his super, both run out of invincibility when they start hitting the back side. Thats how far Capcom went just to give Guile a cross up weakness, so I doubt that they would ever cover up that weakness.


#5

I’d like Capcom to lower Guile’s head just like shotos on his c.mk.


#6

Reduce Flash Kick Recovery

Fix flash kick recovery time. I still don’t get why Capcom made Guile’s flash kick recovery time so much longer than it should be.


#7

You make valid points, but blocking, teching, and match up knowledge will only get you so far. If these were ideal options, Guile would go even with Akuma, Abel, C.Viper, and El Fuerte, but he doesn’t. For the most part, defending against their shenanigans is like tossing a coin because you don’t know what you’re going to get. No amount of match up experience will change that.

Our voices, suggestions, and complaints have been heard, and Guile has been improved beyond anything we had hoped for. I’m aware that he is a top tier character now. Let’s not forget that he still has his own share of bad match ups, though, and there’s nothing wrong about a discussion that focuses on his weaknesses and suggests sensible changes. Therefore, I stick with my original idea of a faster, anti-cross up U1 with reduced damage. LK super combo could apply instead as well. I don’t think that it would be as powerful as you make it out to be. U2 would still be the ultra combo of choice in most match ups and you would have to cut down on EX SBs and EX Flash Kicks to save meter for the super combo. I don’t want both options. Just one would do. Besides, Ryu has a 3F SRK that destroys almost all safe jump set ups, auto-corrects, is safe via FADCing and guarantees a free U1. However, that doesn’t make Ryu invincible and unapproachable when he’s grounded. Throwing out wake up SRKs still carries a risk. It would be no different for Guile, only my proposition of a better defensive attack, preferably LK SC or U1, or whatever it may be in someone else’s eyes, wouldn’t cover nearly as many options as Ryu’s 3F SRK currently does. Ultimately, it’s meant to help Guile against the “vortex” characters, not crap on Dictator even worse.


#8

A change in hitbox for lk flashkick. Or improve the recovery. This move needs tweaking even at the cost of lowering its damage or stun.


#9

So people can play Guile properly and not turtle and throw out random FKs or wake up FKs without facing the consequences of a punish. I think that the recovery on it is fine as it is, FK is not the most core ability that Guile has, since he has a great deal of other options to work with.


#10

Why cant’ the same be said for Balrog’s headbutt and Vega’s flashkick? Or even Honda’s buttsplash? All these moves have much faster recovery times than Guile’s flashkick.


#11

After some thought I don’t believe they will fix his flash kick hit box, purely for balance purposes. If it worked as it should (like WW Guile), none of the cast would be able to get in on him and he’d never need to leave down-back position because he’d literally only needs 2 moves: SB for zoning and FK for anti-air (with a fixed hit box would have increased range).

If capcom are going for balance with a 30+ roster, FK’s hit box is going to remain busted.

Capcom wont fix recovery because Guile is a reasonably quick moving charge based character in a game that has a lot of screen space (leading to more turtling in general). He can already move around the ring faster on foot than Sim or Honda, with hadoken-like recovery on the best zoning tool in the game (which he can throw whilst advancing, allowing him to tank all the while).

Giving Guile quicker recovery on FK would allow him to down-back charge right in front of the opponent, with no risk attached, a 50-50 and 4 stocks of meter. Sure there’s overheads to consider but that’s in most cases 1 threat vs about 4 (2 specials, super, ultra). If opponent blocks it’s an auto reset in Guile’s favour (chip damage and Guile’s back in tank mode fully charged and able to block).

If SF4 was a much faster paced game (i.e smaller fight area and smaller roster), then he most likely would have faster recovery on this move to compensate.

The end result however, is this move just plain sucks outside of combos because it doesn’t work as an anti-air. But, hey that’s what happens when you try to nerf a perfectly designed character for the sake of balance.

Edit: rog and vega don’t have a projectile for long range pressure. They have to get in close to get any real damage, making their character design more risky. The quick recovery on their anti airs is to compensate for that extra risk. Again, this is done for balance purposes.


#12

What’s with everyone saying FK isn’t good on anti-air? Did people forget that both Short/EX versions have invincibility? And if it trades you get a free Ultra/Super/whatever. If you jump anywhere vs. me in range you’re eating a FK guaranteed if I don’t c.Fierce first. Get your timing down kids…


#13

Guile’s FK in SF4 can be crossed up. This wasn’t the case in older Street Fighters. Try playing Guile in SF2 or SF2 Turbo…that was the FK I wish SF4 Guile had - Anti-air, anti-crossup, and quicker recovery.


#14

Improve the hit box on Guile’s forward/back mk, and UDK so it actually connects when it’s supposed to.

Fix the Flash Kick so it doesn’t go the wrong way because a pixel of the opponent was over your head.

Change the damage on Sonic Hurricane from (per hit) 150 30 30 30 30 150 to 140 110 80 50 30 or something like that. This way it’s actually worthwhile to combo into it.


#15

More variety of shades.


#16

Soooooooooo, you want everything Guile has now, but, you don’t want to have to block if you fuck up, correct?

I like this option.


#17

Buff Flash Explosion and take a couple recovery frames off FK, everything else is probably fine.


#18

wow i thought id never fucking say it…

stfu scrub. Vega has no invul frames on Scarlett Terror.


#19
  1. fix crossup game with bigger hitbox or faster recovery for FK (bad matches fixed)
  2. compensate the buff in #1 by nerfing his damage across the board like they did with everyone else in SSF4 (good matches fixed)
  3. While they’re at it, might wanna make lp–>mp link easier (2 frame) so it can be more consistent and useful. Most of the people who are really good with this link can’t use it on the spot like in footsies. They’re only good when they get a clean jump in or crossup. In other words, its hard to hitconfirm this link into a special the way its supposed to be used (i believe thats what the developers were talking about on ssf4 development blog when they said they were trying to fix his links because hes a character that has to combo into his specials)

there we go, perfectly balanced. Less 6-4’s and less 4-6’s. More 5-5’s.

Guile might go a little lower in the tier list with these fixes, but i’d rather have a high mid tier or even a mid tier guile with balanced matchups then a very high tier guile with unbalanced matchups (like he currently is). Its kind of a waste of potential.


#20

Well, duh. I said a jump-in, not a cross up. If they cross you up you block or in some cases hit an early c.Fierce or s.Roundhouse to counter, but generally it’s always better to block.