Guile matchup

guy

#1

I think turtle Guiles and Hondas are Guy’s worst matchups and Guy solely relies on gimmicks to win matches against them. After a few matches, once the opponent finds ways around Guy’s tricks it seems almost impossible to defeat Guile (especially). It seems like Guile has all the tools to effectively stop Guy from getting in. Projectile, air grab, very good normals, very good anti airs, flash kick. It’s almost frustrating. Is this a hopeless matchup?

I fight a friend that plays a defensive/slightly offensive Guile and we’ve fought so many matches that he knows how to stop basically everything I try to do to get in. I call it the slave matchup because Guy has to work so hard to get in and even when he gets in any small mistake, miscalculation, mis-timing, target combo whiff (damn target combo whiff), execution error, etc. and he gets dealt big damage. This person is not the best Guile user in the world. He doesn’t use ultra, only does one combo (jab, jab, jab, flash kick) and barely knows any advanced techniques. All he needs/uses is quick reactions and matchup knowledge to win.

It’s almost impossible to jump in, run>stop is risky (flash kicks/sonic booms/far reaching normals), I can’t jump and elbow drop (I know elbow drop stops flash kicks but he knows how to delay the flash kick so that it punishes the elbow drop. Guile’s anti air normals will also stop elbow drops), I can’t do the target combo>bushin flip setup at all (anti air stops it), can’t do the MP>run>stop because it’s unsafe and i’ll get hit with an instant flash kick, can’t do the MP>light hozanto frame trap (instant flash kick), I have to get very close to be able to do the MP>HP target combo because once I’m not and the HP whiffs (instant flash kick). The only way I have hope is if I miraculously get a knockdown or get him in the corner, and once he escapes it’s back to square one again.
At the end I just get pissed at Capcom for not giving Guy enough effective tools. It’s matchups like this that show how unbalanced the game can be.

Does anyone know any know any anti-Guile strategies? The only way of getting in I can think of is by walking and throwing out safe slides (cr. HK)>cr. lk and that’s not very effective. Any help would be appreciated.


#2

You basically have to bait, I’m not sure if Guy has a normal that beats Cr HP, but a deep or well timed j HK can beat FK, but don’t attempt that alot. Footsies are something Guy will need to use extensively in this match up. That match is not that hard if Guy gets in. Staying in can be a bit of an issue but not one that is a desert walk. Elbow drop should mainly be used exclusively on KD. No matter how long Guile delays a Flash Kick it will not beat Elbow unless its Super or Ultra 1 I do believe EX loses. You’ll basically want to push Guile into the Corner… remember FK has a 4 frame start up. So TC run/stop and Cl st mp Run/stop are safe to use. Use cr mk, cr mp, st mk and st mp for footsies as well as St hp. You can even play the waiting game against him to have him approach you. Guy can AA Guile with cr mp, st hk, and cr mk… and also TK Izuna and EX tatsu. When going to for grabs ALWAYS try for a cross up on Guile…


#3

Ibro911, Could you change the thread title to ‘Guile Match Up’ without the terrible? We can use this thread to educate ourselves with the Guile match up as we add more insight and exchange useful techniques and strategic approaches for the match up.


#4

Lol sorry. I was salty, whiny and half asleep when I created the thread. Done.

@Blooddrunk thanks a lot. So close standing MP does more block stun than far standing MP? Never really noticed the difference between the two. Never really checked though. Don’t really understand what you mean by “always try to cross up when going for grabs”. I’ve heard Guile has a problem dealing with crossups but I don’t know why people say so seeing as he has a pretty good anti air (cr. hp) and can autocorrect his flash kick.

I’m not too sure of Guile being not that hard to fight when you get in. I think the problem is how much he limits most of the tricks you use to fight other people.


#5

Auto correct Flash Kick is a joke. Most characters jumping LKs will stuff it or it will whiff.


#6

He’s saying after a throw go for a crossup, basically guiles crhp is great but if you get a knockdown you get a free crossup because crhp wont come out in time and flash kick gets beat easily by crossups and elbows. Once you’re close just pressure him and block when you think he’ll flash kick, hopefully he’ll be too scared to keep doing it if he thinks you’ll block and punish. I think the hardest part of this match is getting past his sonic boom, just be careful and slowly push him to the corner, then it gets a lot easier


#7

I’ve added this thread to the AE Match-up Thread Index. I’ll send you a message when I recover the Guile match up information from Super Street Fighter IV.

I made a brief post last night about calculating frame data: click here.

Using my method:

Block Stun of cl.MP = (Number of Active Frames - 1) + (Recovery) + (Frame Advantage on Block)
Block Stun of cl.MP = ( 2 - 1) + ( 16 ) + ( +1)
Block Stun of cl.MP = 1 + 16 + 1
Block Stun of cl.MP = 18

Block Stun of st.MP = (Number of Active Frames - 1) + (Recovery) + (Frame Advantage on Block)
Block Stun of st.MP = ( 2 - 1 ) + ( 16) + ( -4)
Block Stun of st.MP = 1 + 16 - 4
Block Stun of st.MP = 13


#8

I never realized in Super how big that gap was between those 2… 21 to 13 I really wish cl mp had its 21 again and st mp would be 18 or 19 I’d be more than satisfied with that but it is what it is.


#9

You should be baiting that flashkicks & sonic booms more than anything else. You have all the tools to stuff it every single time. And then…on top of that, you can throw frame traps, powerful resets (uncrouchable setups) as well as other things.


#10

So I had the pleasure of fighitng Dieminion and losing to him. Doesn’t help that he also used to play Guy and I’m sure has had plenty of experience against Combofiend. So this match was heavily in his favour since I hardly fight Guile’s and whenever I did none of them were good or even had matchup experience against Guy, all I can say is a Guile player that knows this match, I can easily say will never use FK as an Anti Air on Guy, he will always aim for that cr hp, unless you are outside the range for his cr hp, I’ll have you know though, if you are outside the range of cr Hp, but near the outskirts of Flashkicks hitbox, you’ll lose. with that being said you have to aim for that sweet spot, which isn’t exactly easy with Guile throwing out SBs and can grab Guy out of his elbow, the match does take a lot. I lost but I at least learned a few things, Like most people I need more matchup experience cause theorizing against someone like Dieminion will not do.

Overall in the tourney I did alright… even though my execution was off. Especially in 3s :l


#11

Here are Capcom’s final documented changes for Guile in AE 2012:

For undocumented changes and discussion, please check out this thread in the Guile forums:


#12

Guile specific Combo: (on crouching Guile), crLp, crLp, crLp, Far stHp.


#13

Always had trouble with this match up too. Just need to stay on the ground and bait him in, make him work for it.


#14

Observations against Guile: 1. Flash Kick Punish; stHk, stHp, stMp into Run Slide or Ex Hozanto. As far as my testing goes, it works any where on screen, just make sure its done quickly. Also Jump-in Hk or Neutral Jump Hp into stHk, stHp, stMp into Run Slide or Ex Hozanto is also possible against Guile. 2. Low Hozanto into Ultra 1 with no meter is possible in the corner which does 452 damage. 3. Low Tatsu on-hit, hits 3 times Any where on screen. It makes a good corner punish because after the third hit, you can connect Guy’s Super Combo which does 500 damage. On Block Low Tatsu hits Twice to help make it a little safer and does 20 Chip Damage. 4. Interestingly, if you have a full stock Super Meter you can punish Guile’s Flash Kicks with a delayed Fierce Tatsu in the corner to achieve 4-hits. After the 4th hit you can punish with Guy’s Super Combo for 540 damage.


#15

CrMk Corner Mix Up

crMk, forward dash, forward jump into instant Elbow Drop (should land in front of Guile)

pros: beats Forward Dash, Jumping and crHp, whiffs against instant (Flash Kicks, Super, Ultra 1 and 2)
cons: though the timing is tight, Elbow Drop can lose against a well timed crouching Lk, Mk, (Hk to push him out the corner), delayed Flash Kicks and Super.

Mix ups include: Cross Up Mk, Empty Jump or Fake cross up Lk, Wall Jump, Low Bushin Flip to act as a fake forward jump and Ex Bushin Flip for an Uncrouchable.

Elbow Drop On Block into crouching short beats Guiles Forward and Neutral Throw if Guile is standing.

Elbow Drop Combos include: 1. crLp, crLp, crLp, stMp into Run Slide then Neutral Jump Attack. 2. crLp, Target Combo into Run Slide then Neutral Jump Attack.

Note, Guiles Super can graze Guy for 40 dmg and Ultra 1 for 24 dmg if they Whiff on wake up.


#16

I doubt that this MU is even in Guile’s favor. In case both players are on the same skill lvl the Guy player has the advantage over Guile.
It’s a 6-4 MU in Guy’s favor in my opinion, if played right.
I am not too good at this game, but I have played quite a lot matches in the past vs Guy players in the 4-5k PP range and I thought I had
already gathered a good amount of experience in this MU, but this Guy player proved me wrong.
Kudos to Cerialbox for being such an excellent player.

[media=youtube]EU0nNfmImS8[/media]


#17

Not gonna say what this is exactly, but I’ll say it’s 5-5 at best for Guy. A cool Guile who knows when to sonic boom and how to AA with normals is plain annoying. Guile’s boom recovery is so fast that Guy’s anti-fireball specials are largely ineffective unless taken risks with i.e do them in early.

If the Guile player doesn’t know how to control space and AA, then yeah 6-4.


#18

Ppl on the Guile forums say it’s in Guy’s favor while ppl here say it’s in Guile’s favor.
But this is pretty common tbh.
The MU is not that easy for Guile like you might think no matter of how fast his recovery time is.
1-2 bad guesses and it’s pretty much game over for Guile. IIRC even Dieminion
stated once that Guy is 1 of the top 6 worst MUs for Guile in AE.
Btw are you still online on PC?
Always looking for training.
I remember the 1 time when we tried to play and it didn’t work because of connection issues. Are you still online today or this week?
I do know you are 1 of the better Guy players in EU.
Feel free to send me an invite or FL add afo.


#19

Yeah I reckon it’s a 5/5 matchup. I’m not surprised that Dieminion thinks it’s a bad matchup, because he probably trains a hell of a lot with his brother Kreymore - one of the top Guy players in the States. A solid Guile who doesn’t take any risks and just slowly chips away with sonic booms and knows exactly how to antiair Guy at the right moment is a real pain in the ass. Trying to get in on Guile is tricky and you can take a lot of damage just trying to get any damage on him at all, especially if you don’t have any meter. I can’t imagine why Guile players would complain about how hard Guy is for them to deal with. I guess maybe it’s because the match usually goes really in Guy’s favour or really in Guile’s. As you said, a couple of bad guesses and Guile is in big trouble. But likewise, if Guy can’t even get a knockdown because he’s been zoned out so well, then Guile can just make him look foolish. I think it’s definitely a 5/5 matchup.


#20

I’m working outside EU for now so we can’t play. To be honest, my level has dropped quite a lot because I don’t play very often.
It would probably take a few weeks of playing to get back on track. It’s funny how you forget match-up details after many months without playing; so many characters in the game.

I’m surprised Dieminion would say that. I guess it’s cos his brother Kreymore plays him a lot with Guy so he knows how to get in more.

Edit: Also don’t forget, players base their match-up opinions based on what they experienced…and most people haven’t played a top Guy or a top Guile - at least not offline. Secondly , a lot of match-up opinion against Guy is distorted because so many people still don’t know Guy’s weaknesses and how to exploit him…e.g many people ***still ***don’t know how to deal with his double fw jump after his forward throw, even when playing with Ryu!