thanks, needed some mirror tips
The SB is good in this match, but if you do it short-mid range you’re likely to be EX Green-handed sooner or later. If it happens at all you’re in big trouble. You seriously can’t afford to let Zangief stay close for too long.
You can usually catch them all day with Backhand in my experience. I’m never punished if it gets blocked, generally because they don’t expect that attack from that range.
Smart zoning with SB’s (read: jab booms for recovery) from mid-range will usually lead to free air-grab opportunities.
If you’re one to throw out St. Fierces all day like me, it will beat out lariat at the farthest range possible. (Hit them with the hair on his knuckles!)
Cr. Fierce beats Sumo Splash (Unless you’re hit from start-up), and all Honda’s jump-ins.
SB > Headbutt. Honda takes a down every time you SB his headbutt. Jab Boom from max range with follow up is golden in this match… Honda can’t jump, but may Sumo Splash.
Using these two maneuvers while actually pushing forward (staying just out of his jab/poke/grab range) will throw many Honda’s off their game, and leave you tons of leeway to back up if needed.
For Air-throw fiends:
Air-throw actually owns sumo splash, if you preemptively throw it out every jump. I personally jump backwards and (preemptively, anticipating) air-grab whenever I’m close, and I actually catch Honda’s Sumo Splash more often than not. Its like throwing out the air-grab super early and catching Ken/Ryu’s shoryuken on start up, with a lot more margin of error. (Although not much)
Probably already said, but…
The first time Dictator uses Headstomp and follow up may be his last, if you block the stomp and FA the follow up. It could lead to an 300+ damage combo ala :l:+RH, Cr. MP link.
Any time I have to block the stomp, I FA the follow up… I can dash away if need be.
I added the updates, I also added a credit list at the bottom. I included mainly our top experts, Gilley, Fuson, Slinkun and Syngin as well as the people who posted in this particular thread. If you want your name added to the list, pm me and I will (I don’t feel like going back through the 19 page thread looking for names) :lol:
Great work Blitz, thank you very much.
-you can exFK through fireballs. You can exFK though cr.mk>fireball at far distances. I don’t know if you can do this at closer ranges (never tried).
-f.FP before fireballs, and after (if you through out a SB)
-sobat isn’t so bad either. It can hit before the fireball, and it can beat out cr.mk
Love the contributions made by everybody here (ie those on the guile bandwagon)…good work guys…I can’t think anything else to add at this stage other than some of the 2 cents i have thrown into the Guile strategy and match up thread that is already been closed off.
just skimmed the post. looks good so far.
but a few things to add for the ryu game. you mentioned the tatsu, you should mention that from outside sweep or close you should watch the booms since youll get hit in the face. also you should mention that a blocked (high) tatsu is dangerous because they can mix it up with a throw or a uppercut after wards.
last thing about the tatsu, please dont start the round with a sonic boom, a smart ryu with be ready for this and tatsu you at the start of the round and begin his cross up game.
never jump in on a ryu with ultra unless its 100% safe cause youll eat an easy ultra set up for him.
then again, watch any random jump ins with a meter’d ryu too since he’ll EX fireball after an uppercut.
certain block strings for ryu can be punished easy with a FK or EX FK, usually ones that end with a sweep. a mk to a fire ball. get ready for them and get that reversal, correct me if im wrong.
HK fk should punish blocked cannon spikes
Her air flip throw doesn?t catch if you are crouching
EX Cannon Drills can go under booms - normal ones don’t - but blocked can be punished pretty safely with FK. Trying anything else usually means I get Bird Kicked in the face.
Hooligan Combo can be FKed. If I remember my fights right, you can duck the throw. I have even successfully air thrown Cammy out of it (not sure if she can throw at the peak of the spin) but I got away with it every time in that match.
Her Ultra can go under booms and is pretty difficult to punish back with Ultra if you time it wrong. Do it too late and you only get one hit on each somersault.
Spin Knuckle goes through booms, but comes out pretty slow. Not sure where it hits, but you should be able to block and punish if they decide to use it.
Try to time SB, including ex, so he lands on them when he air fireballs
Once he has Ultra stay grounded. Too many times have I been caught with his Ultra because I decided to jump his fireballs. Could’ve been me, but if you block his EX AirBalls, he can land and get you withUltra ( not confirmed ). I have also been caught by his Ultra after a j.rh. Not sure if it’s a sure Ultra for him… I should try it in training. If you ever see the Raging Demon ( if you didn’t already know ) JUMP if you are right next to him. Half-screen is no problem, since he can be hit with anything at that distance.
Akumas I’ve fought love to far.rh > c.forward or c.rh after ( like ken’s f+forward > c.forward spam ).
Cornering Akuma is a chore because of his warps. So if I ever get one in the corner, I don’t rush him up close. I just try to contain him with SBs, f+fierce, b+rh and FK if he get’s reckless and tries to jump out.
Unlike Ryu, Akuma’s Tatsu can easily be comboed into SRK to add pain, so careful with the Booms.
Demon Flip can be air thrown, but watch out for the Dive Kick. Akumas I’ve played stuff my FK attempts everytime with it, so I go for the air throw.
Dunno if any of that is helpful but…
Tech. late: if it’s a dp, you’ll block; if it’s a throw, you’ll tech. Watch out for crouching moves.
He recovers faster with EX fireball than normal fireball.
Command inputs work while still in the air unlike his normal fireball.
If u block the EX & u see the Ultra, you have enough block stun to just jump over it.
Hey BlitzJS, I was thinking that you add some stuff to the Boxer match up as I have a pretty good depth and knowledge of this matchup, given that I main Guile and Boxer.
Sonic booming boxer when he is with 1/3 screen distance with a down charge can lead to a HP Headbutt to an Ultra if you are too predictable with your SB’s.
With boxer I sometimes (other boxer players included) try to set up the opponent up with the dash swing blow using a number of blocked strings (eg CLP x2 > Dash swing blow > C LK > Headbutt > Ultra). So Maybe this could be slotted in, just a thought thats all
Write up any info you have in a bulleted list and I’ll add it. The two points I’m paraphrasing into
-Don’t be predictable with sb especially in headbutt range (1/3 screen distance)
-Watch out for swing overhead since it can lead to headbutt > ultra?
Any other insight you can provide is certainly welcome (especially turtling boxers ).
*I had recently found that after a boxer jumps in on your boom to HP overhead you can actually c.mp him to beat him out of it. Very awesome because you usually don’t have time to c.HP
* Cammy with meter who's standing full screen will 96% of the time do the ex ball thing, after your boom you have ample time to c.HP the crap out of that.
* A lot of claws will start off the match with a walldive that's a cross up, FA and dash backwards and sweep or punish it whatever way you want, rarely if ever will a claw walldive your front, almost always a cross up, following this they begin to start doing the walldive to throw. * When claw has ultra they're going to try and bait you to sb at fullscreen, be weary of this * rushdown is super important, and their pokes will beat you out in poke range so take a step back or b+mk
* Use s.hp as AA instead of c.hp
* I find this matchup really easy, his moves are kind of sluggish, on wakeup don't go for a meaty boom, you'll eat an FA, safer to be in s.HP range, go for a throw or crossup. * The whole match is honestly zoning from s.HP range and mixups own his life.
* You can definitely punish a blocked straight dash thing with a FK * IMO i've never had problem with rose's, treat them like shotos.
* FA the second half of a blocked Messiah, bait ex messiahs on wakeup for this or fk/exfk, FA leads to more dmg though
* Bait a jump in and either C.HP>l.sb>f+HK, if he starts blocking after the C.HP he should land just in f.MP range for the overhead to sweep or neut jump and air throw, must be the back+air throw, it literally pulls him out of the air.
* Watch out for her FA, it's a bitch
* Zone the pants off this one. You need to keep matching his booms at long range and he'll eventually walldive to get in, anticipate this and c.HP or s.MP has worked luckily, i don't even bother air throwing seth tbh. If you're inside his long arm range than you should be rushing him down OR if you're inside his long arm range, have charge, if he jumps FK cuz he's gonna long arm you for the overhead, if he doesn't and s.long arms you than just block, SB and jump in * Patience is key, they'll run out of patience, you barely have to hit the bastard
Good work organizing all the scattered data:tup:
I was wondering how difficult it would be to have a thread that deals with situations where you’re in trouble.
like getting crossed-up by a shoto, getting dive kicked by Rufus, being zoned out by Seth / Sim, or guessing wrong in the tick-throw mix-ups.
Does it come down to reflex when its all said and done?
Is there a move where you’re better off doing then another (while crouch blocking, spam lp+lk for option select)?
Great job consolidating everything together… It’s much appreciated! I don’t know if anything I’ve got is really worthy, but I’ll throw out a couple things I thought of when reading that have worked in my experience.
-(vs Gief) Blocked EX green hand (And normal! as I just found out) can be a free backthrow. If it’s available, an Ultra would probably be preferrable, but if he’s got you cornered (usually inevitable), a backthrow will open up the entire length of the stage for you to back up and continue throwing booms. It’s not easy to get on the other side of him a lot of the time (tech stand into lariat after knockdown makes it a huge gamble to cross him up after putting him on the ground), so I like to take any chance I can get to open up some room.
-(vs Ryu) It was mentioned above that EX FK can go through fireballs, but it may be worth mentioning that EX FK can also go through his ultra at close range and score both hits. Be wary of attempting to ultra through his ultra, though. While it is possible with the right spacing, I’ve seen it happen too often where Guile’s ultra will score one or two hits and then eat Ryu’s full Metsu, so it’s better to stick to the EX kick if you’re too close to jump over his ultra.
-(vs. Shoto) I’ve had pretty good success with reversal EX FK after being forced to block a RH hurricane kick. Even though you’re usually in blockstun and stuck blocking high, you can still pick up a down charge by the time he comes down. Should beat out a throw or jab DP. It’s a gamble if they block afterwards, but so it teching a followup throw, so at least there’s another option.
Edit: Fixed. Thanks for the correction, guys! I got SPD’d out of a couple throw attempts today after blocked normal GH, but after your posts I tried it out in training mode (like I should have done before posting… Apologies, I won’t make that mistake again), and you’re right. I guess it was either lag, spacing, or bad timing on my part (probably bad timing).
A good (and sort of advanced) skill to learn vs her ultra if you block, is to dash to ultra. You have enough time to do it so she can’t block and every hit is a confirm.
(VS Gief) You can throw the normal! greenhand on block.
You can use throw as a reversal against all of them: hit or not. The exception is the EX version as it knocks you over if it hits.
Spacing can be a problem as he can do them such that he recovers outside throw range. However, at best the banishing flat is at -5f (lp.bf hit) which gives you plenty of time to punish chest-hair.
I said it before, but I’ve gone and extensively tested it out today.
St. Fierce and Backhand both own the lariat at max range. No joke. The first few times Gief gets cute by lariating booms, smack him out of it.
sounds good, I like this :wgrin: