Guile Strategies and Matchup Thread *updated and consolidated on page 1*

This is what I’ve gathered from fighting 3 Goukens in a G2 tourny - reached the finals and lost to Honda… HONDA!!! Anyways…

Gouken

  • Careful jumping his straight fireball at range, it means you are eating an angled fireball in the air. If he lets a charged fireball off, jump it don’t SB back. If you see him EX fireball, SB if it isn’t charged. If it is charged, block don’t jump. I made this mistake twice =(

  • His dash palms go through SB. If you notice them doing this often, bait it out with lp.SB and punish accordingly.

  • If you are able to jump-in on him, EMPTY jump. Nothing more embarassing than working your way in and being caught by his parry-counter bringing you back to square one. Empty jump-in > throw is your best bet. After a couple of these, mix it up with combos and make them really panic.

  • When Gouken has Ultra, careful with the your use of SB, because his EX dash palm pops you up on second hit leaving you open for his Ultra [ I think I even got hurricane kick exc ultra’d in one match, not sure ]. Careful when you are in throw range, also. Be ready to tech, because his back throw means free Ultra.

  • Treat his Demon Flip like Akuma’s. I think they are practically identical except one of his variations absorbs and attack.

Hope this was useful since there isn’t anything currently on Gouken and I was lucky enough to fight 3 in a row.

Great job consolidating all the data from the previous thread. Deserves the sticky.

:tup: going to test this one out!

I’ve also knicked his punch lariat with df.rh a few times. Really though, a ranged lariat can be punished soooo many ways. Just wait and EX boom… or lp boom late and add a backhand.

The issue with gief is escaping crossup pressure and being unpredictable enough to NOT get EX green-handed through your booms. For the crossup pressure, it’s one of those “No right answer” moments. After you block the splash, back-dashing is far from the worst option, but if you get too predictable, he can punish it. Also, watch for the knee drop. Most giefs I fight follow a knee drop immediately with a throw. Also, in general, I say it’s better to get (non-ex) SPD’d than hit with a green hand combo. If you get EX green-handed, your back at square one, forced to deal with more crossups. An SPD leaves you with more options on your next wakeup. EX SPD had sex with your mother though. =\

to punish lariat, it has to be on the second or more revolution right (if attempting to hit high)?

vs. Fei Long…

… I have no idea. I end up splitting wins and barely breaking even against Fei users. His poke game is nuts. Anyone find any good strategies for this match?

alright, did some testing. On the rog thing I mentioned I have better luck hitting rog clean instead of trading with st.hp if he jumps over a slow boom and taps air hk than I do getting under and going for cr.hp. It’s all just spacing issues at heart so I reckon that’s why I thought it was a definite thing. Air HP for rog has a funny hitbox I think because it almost always trades or beats st.hp at the same mid screenish range. It’s as though the hitbox extends just a bit below where the fist actually is. Who knows.

The rufus stuff is interesting. This all pertains to ex messiah. key is (fk/exfk:1, super:2, ultra:3)

Messiah no followup: can reversal 1,2,3

Messiah lk followup: You can’t reversal after the initial messiah but you can hit 1,2,3 after the lk addition

Messiah mk followup: After the initial messiah you can hit 1,2, and 3. Post sweep rufus is safe from all options

Messiah hk followup: After the initial messiah rufus goes right to the air so you can hit everything again. You can also jumpup and beat the overhead with a normal or airthrow. If you block the overhead you can’t hit any of the options

Cammy matchup stuff: Cammy is pretty good up close, and if the Cammy player has a good hold on her links then it’s downright fucking scary between her decent damage, ultra combo juggles, and tick throw game. Problem is, poor girl can’t get in worth a shit. Play the match like a shitty gief and just get away and stay away.

Hooligan can be ducked and cr.HP, flashed, or if she does it while you are in the air, just normaled out or air thrown. Spin knuckle can be flashed if she goes through your sb from about 3/4 screen. If she does it close to you to avoid a boom, try and stepkick her.

Cannon strike can be flashed. Cannon drill is funny, because it’s safe from a certain range, but she won’t throw them because it’s at the range you’ll be throwing booms. On block it’s a cr.mp x fk x super if it’s on a meaty block, otherwise fk reversal. If you wait to hit a button you run the risk of letting him dp you. Avoid ex drill on wakeup to get through meaty booms.

Just play the match with slow booms and react to what she does to try and move in. If she gets in, try and get a back throw and create that range again. Whatever you do, don’t jump back mindlessly when she gets in. Her dp has very good horizontal range to it.

I usually don’t have a problem keeping Gief away… if he does get in because of the boom, the gief probably was a really good player to anticipate it. I’m not saying use the boom aggressively to create this situation, I’m just saying this situation will probably come up sooner or later naturally.

I really feel that the St. Fierce and Backhand are great to use in that situation… Gief doesn’t spin forever, and an EX boom does 100 damage instead of 120, may miss, etc… St. Fierce and Backhand always hit (And unlike low attacks, doesn’t matter when you throw them out!)

The slow boom into Backhand or other follow-ups would work too, but you won’t always have the luxury to think about it IMO. I’m not promoting these two attacks as a big change in the match, its more just that I’m showing another option. I also feel its a good option to have, since that will probably be the most damage (and safest!) from that range. (Max range of St. Fierce and Backhand. No way you’re going to move forward to sweep Gief, and playing with Gief’s wakeup game is a no go in my book anyways. Also, I’m fairly certain you wouldn’t FK Gief from that range, it wouldn’t do full damage if it could hit, and once again you’re playing with Gief’s wakeup game.)

Also Blitz, the St. Fierce and Backhand (or other high attacks I didn’t test, I dunno) doesn’t matter, revolution wise. It will always land.

My two cents…

Also Zoffy:

Besides jumping, Fei doesn’t have an iron-strong way of getting around projectiles. He can Chicken-wing now I believe, but the player playing Guile should be able to bait it (the situation in which he’ll use it is easy to point out before it happens), or even beat it on jab boom recovery. Therefore, you could use the boom as a way of partially controlling this match up, more so than other characters IMO. I haven’t actually had much chance to fight Fei’s either.

Unless Fei only does one Rekka per string, you can (and should) punish them also. I usually throw out my St. Fierce…

whoopsies

Zangief linked pokes into EX Greenhand > cross up game owned me the other today.

I’d keep him out until he reached around 30% life but he’d always get in on my boom > backhand/thrust kick game.

Then to the damn cross up crap.

Air throw him – he starts splashing earlier to hit me in the air
c.hp his early splashes – he starts tick throwing me
FADC back – he catches me with EX Greenhand

Did I deal with this the wrong way, or was this Gief player just REALLY solid?

He complimented me on having a solid Guile. Said he saw fit to step in and kick me off the machine after he watched me tear several other before him apart, but I was so frustrated…

Anyone with alot of experience against turtle Gief? Or next time should I backfist him in real life when he gets in on me? :mad:

EDIT: **** Careful jumping in at his Lariats ( which is a bad idea anyways ). Gief can juggle trades with EX Greenhand!!! ****

You weren’t solid enough (no insult intended). Guile’s got the tools to keep Geffa out and that’s exactly what you need to focus on. I try to play such that he doesn’t get in at all. Once the pressure is on, I focus on getting back out.

Are you using the fk to keep him out? It beats out his lariat and other than j.mk, beats all of his jump-ins. It’s also good against ground-based normals if you know they’re coming.

Do you stay crouched just out of sweep range and put on boom pressure? I try to stay about half a screen away and I use s.mk if he jumps over the boom but the damage is very low. I’m trying to come up with a different strat like dash in c.hp as they jump over the boom but I have no confidence in my c.hp online (this range is just out of airthrow). I stay this range because its just out of range of his EX greenhand for the most part and whenever he does it, I get the best punish of the match (from my perspective). I destroyed most G3 Giefs (I know that doesn’t really say much) but I’m starting to have trouble against some of the higher G2 Giefs. I still win the matchup more than 50% of the time but I think I can do a lot better. Usually when I lose, they only have about 25% life left so I’m looking for more ways to do damage like different punishes for jumping over SBs and lariats.

Blitz, as mentioned by many, df. roundhouse has a strange property in that it can beat gief jump-ins clean at max range. Even if you don’t EX flashkick after it, it still does more damage than a c.hp. Also, j.hp will beat stuff that air throw will not. I use it A LOT in this fight.

What are you using to punish blocked green hands? I only use the throw (back) if I’ve been put into a corner. Otherwise, c.mp flashkick that shit. If you want to get technical, you have the time to s.hp xx flashkick as well. Frankly though, I keep it simple, (although punishing a blocked green hand with s.hp xx FK sounds beefy as hell… maybe I’ll try that more.) As a plus, if, for some reason, he hits you with any non-ex green hand, he’s still at -5 afterwards as long as it wasn’t a counterhit. s.lp x 3 > s.hp it assuming you have no charge or just throw it.

It’s distance dependant, but i’ve found the best and most reliable punish to a blocked green hand (besides backthrow for positioning) is:

cr.jab, st.jab, st.fierce x2

Does about as much as a razorkick combo and doesn’t require charge

I backthrow when approaching the corner, I usually don’t hold a down charge against gief (unless I’m cornered) so I usually attempt s.lp (x2 or 3) > s.hp. I’m more comfortable moving around as oppose to staying crouched but having a fk stocked and being able to ultra reversal a blocked ex greenhand seem too good to pass up?

It was pretty casual match. I beat all the other guys he picked, but his Zangief I didn’t know how deal with. Only played shit ones online, never any decent ones. Out of the 5 round matches, each match it was 2-me, 3-him. But it was pretty much like this:

I stayed pretty much 3/4 screen to outside sweep throwing booms. Everytime he Lariat through I’d far s.hp or backfist so he could eat both boom and punch, but I just started using backfist against Lariat ( thanks to this thread ) and somtimes traded.

So he stops lariat and jumps over to eat FK. Then he resorts to absorbing booms for a bit at about full screen and lariat to build meter. So I mix up the speeds and tag him with EX, . He sees he’s in a world of hurt and starts to advance and either FADC > SPD ( scary! ) or Greenhands in on my booms, leading to cross up of death.

All the while I’m backing myself into the corner and of course CAN’T jump over the guy because of Lariat. But there were times he’d sit there in db and turtle up. So I poke with c.lk 1-2 times depending on how far he was and bazooka knee > back throw to space him.

Anyways, guess I missed the post on how to punish blocked Greenhand. I think that was the major factor in my matches against him. Not knowing how to properly punish it. I used to punish EVERY move with throws, but am now in the habit of c.mp > fk… thanks for the tips guys!

PS: Also tried to throw him out of his taunt and ate an Ultra… :shake:

Here’s how I play against Zangief.

Start off by jumping back or moving back. If he moves back I crouch and wait, if he moves forward i throw lp.sb. pretty much a standard strat against gief but i usually let him walk upto me throwing low booms to see his reaction. if he lariats i throw boom suspecting he lariats and time my jump to punish it or move forward and sweep. standard stuff. nothing new.

this isnt enough to win you this match. you become way too predictable if you keep doing this with some standard mixups. you have to be unpredictable and play mind games. i often switch to offense and put pressure on him. i know its not a wise thing but works for me. but how you go on about attacking gief is all upto you. guile has enough normal moves to do that.

when you are full screen away use your EX booms. throw low boom, if he absorbs, EX boom him. does a lot of damage. similarly you can mixup booms and EX booms by throwing them alternately or whatever…but its all upto you how you do it. FK is pretty much useless in this match you rarely get to use it. i never use FK much against gief unless i really get a chance to.

i usually throw blocked greenhand or jump away anticipating another greenhand which then i can punish as i am in the air while he does that. if he does not do another greenhand…fair enough i get away from him.

if i want to space gief…i use pokes, sabot kick, etc etc. even he blocks. each pokes/kicks/punches/booms you land pushes him back. that is called creating space. i often do this when i start getting cornered. while im doing this i often go offensive for a brief moment and then switch back to standard gameplay.

so i make a mistake and get lariat/spd/whatever and now gief tries to do that annoying crossup-poke-lariat shit. i just block and wait. if he lariats i sweep him. otherwise i jump away on the wakeup. but sometimes i end up getting hit but whatever. shit happens. i then know he will spam the same move which helps me to punish.

i guess there are some pointers in there that could be helpful.

In my matches with Gief, I apply the Backhand liberally… I stay back in a safe position, shifting between back and forth movement in that safe pocket, and throw out a backhand when I see the opening. I usually end up catching Gief many times a round doing that.

You can feint a backhand too, and it’ll throw Gief off his game. He can’t get in fast enough to cover the gap save for a greenhand, but you should be able to see it coming…

I don’t boom too much in this match to be honest. And I don’t know, but I don’t remember my air-throws being beaten when I’ve played Gief, ever… Whether I answered his jump in with it, or I anticipated his jump and preemptively suckered it out of him.

I throw a jab boom when I’ve wandered completely out of greenhand range. I move up a little, watching for the greenhand, and mix it up from there.

Hope this helped, probably didn’t haha.

I was wondering if anyone could add more to the Dictator strategy. I got absolutely destroyed by a Dictator at my local arcade (Chinatown Fair). He would get me in the corner and just abuse me with Dictators easy poke poke poke poke knee press combos. For whatever reason I just couldn’t get out of that corner.

His st.RH/Poke/ then the occasional ex headstomp kept me grounded. Maybe its just me, because online I barely face a Dictator that does anything else other than spam devils reverse, but I felt helpless.

Can anyone weigh in on this?

Who ever did this compilation. Thanks a million. This really helps out over reading 12 pages of forum comments just for one tip.