Depends on the spacing and timing. Typically if she’s directly above your head, I use cl.st.mk. Very underrated move that works pretty well against Chun. Best option is to walk past her and do cl.st.fierce for max damage punish. Alternatively, you can do cl.st.strong for better frame advantage at the expense of damage.
Shit has priority over pretty much anything in the game that’s not invulnerable. Eltrouble’s advice is good since that move can beat or trade with several aerial attacks, but odds are you will be hit by Chun’s head stomp if she goes for that, and it’s a very bad idea to just block every jump-in of Chun’s, since then you will be vulnerable to throws and combos as she lands.
If you are not cornered, you can hit her from behind after the head stomp.
Thanks, I have a lot of trouble with that match up. More so than O Sagat or Claw for whatever reason. She is just so fast and her normals are so good.
A lot of it is knowing what ranges you want to keep yourself at. At far distances, you can actually trade cr.fierce with her jump attacks and it’ll trade in your favor. At medium range distance, she has a bit of an advantage. She can jump over your sonic boom on reaction and beat a lot of your standard anti-airs clean, which lets to putting you in a mixup situation against Chun’s pressure. This is never a good thing. Closer than that, you force her to either use fireballs or walk forward to close the gap. You can match fireballs to maintan neutral frame advantage, or she throws a really late fireball to match yours, you can follow up with a backfist. This is the perfect range to be at, since if she jumps, if you have fast reactions, you’re actually able to walk underneath her and hit her from the other side. This is a pretty crucial skill that I don’t see a lot of Guiles doing.
God help you if you fight a Chun who actually knows how to properly turtle and build up meter asap. Then it comes a headache.
It is a good idea to study Muteki, Kotaka Shoten and Kurahashi. They have very good anti-Chun game. Check how they use the sobat kick in several ways that give Chun trouble, and the use of far.strong against jump-ins from a certain distance. Guile demands a very deep distance awareness in this match-up, but he can play against Chun.
Mars also has experience against her, since he used to play a lot against Chris “Techmonkey” Doyle.
I’ve been watching a lot of Muteki stuff, he is a great player. I guess I just have trouble implementing some of the stuff I see/read. I have a bad tendency to try to flash kick the headstomp since it beats almost every other jump-in in the game, really bad habit for that match though. I think I just need more experience, there aren’t too many good chun players on ggpo that I have seen except for CUPYAKISOBA who is a really good Japanese player.
Flash kick should beat the head stomp if properly timed. The key is to do it late, so that Guile is invulnerable during her attack. In either case, it’s another reason that walk-under anti-airs should be used. She has no counter for it if you get the spacing right.
There are plenty of decent Chun players on ggpo. Llamah and Unessential are fairly solid players that should give you good practice.
^^^ Those guys suck. If you really want to play a good chun, look for papercut. That guy is a fucking beast. Guile players will always have charge ready, because the rush down is so intense, it’ll be like they have down back physically bolted down on their stick. Papercut might actually be an alt account otochun is using to play on GGPO. Man, that guy, papercut is really sexy.
my old chun li is a bigger threat
I shouldn’t have said I hadn’t seen many good chun players on GGPO because Skidmarked Panties and Llamah both beat my ass today.
Both are strong intermediate-to-high-intermediate players. They’re also both very helpful and willing to offer advice if you ask.
You’re right though. Most chun players on ggpo are crap. They think chun takes no skill to learn and choose her for the gimmicks. But it does say a little about your play since the match is about 7-3 for chun. If you see SMP and llamah often go and ask them. I feel SMP is more solid in his play than llamah though. You can also ask zagi and paper cut. Great chuns as well (IMO, better than SMP and llamah, although paper cut can be a bit trolly). I’m on rarely but if you can catch me on I can help you with the matchup too. There used to be more chuns but they don’t show up on ggpo much anymore (since the summer, I’ve dialed down a lot too…)
I think I have the timing down for hitting the neckbreaker with flash kick, you were right eltrouble you just have to do it late and it will beat it. I was doing better against another Chun I played yesterday by knocking her down and doing the cross up or a tick throw. I think I understand the match better now but it’s still one of the more difficult ones. If you get a hard knock down is it worth going for j short (switching between cross up and normal), cr strong xx flash kick and if she blocks just a tick throw?
Personally, I’d always go for the ambiguous crossup after a knockdown. If you can space and time it properly, it’s pretty hard to guess which side Guile will hit. Hit confirm into combo of your choice.
If she blocks, you can either play it safe and do cr.strong, cr.short x sonic boom, or you can go for tick throws. Tick throws have a bit of risk, since there’s a good chance she’ll counter throw you first. Chun can make Guile cry for days if you get caught in her throw loop mixups. The alternative is to mix up your tick throw setups. cr.jab ~ throw, cr.jab x2 ~ throw, cr.strong ~ throw, cr.short ~ throw, etc etc… Mix it up to avoid getting predictable, which makes it harder for chun to know when and where she needs to stand up to counter throw.
Yeah, that’s what I’ve been doing, going for the ambiguous cross up. I’m going to look into learning that block string because i was just going for tick throws if she blocked the right way.
Don’t confuse neckbreaker with headstomp.meaty neckbreaker needs a reversal flashkick.
Also, if you don’t have a charge,a then li jump in becomes a guess between headstomp, regular kick or a punch. All requiring a different answer from guile. Almost every sonic boom from guile is a free chance to jump in on guile by chun. And if the guile is psychic, she doesn’t even need to jump in.
Oh yeah, I meant headstomp, my mistake. The neckbreaker can be a pain on wake up too.
What you mentioned is a lot of my problem in this match, I’ll throw a boom and then she’ll jump in on me and it feels like there’s nothing i can do if I’m not chrarged. What normals do you use for punch and kick jump ins? I have been using crouching fierce against her punches and kicks.
Nothing you can do against neckbreaker on wakeup. She can make it safe to reversal flash kicks and supers. You block and pray to God you can get out of the mixup.
This goes back to knowing the right ranges to throw sonic booms. It’s not about zoning her, it’s about understanding her options, and knowing where to keep yourself in order to better punish those options. Guile’s only AA options is st.strong (earlier the better), cr.fierce trade anti-airs (only works at far ranges), or cross-under AAs (these work best). Once you realize how utterly useless Guile is at the mid-range, your job will be to either keep yourself at a distance, or keep yourself close enough to punish bad jump ins. At that point, it’s time to play footsies, which isn’t too bad.
I just know the matchup from chuns side. So I don’t recall the normalo guileis opposed to use.I DO know it is a guessing game though and a few times guiles told me the normals but I never remember for more than a week.
As for the neckbreaker, against average chuns ALWAYS reversal flash kick. The timing for it is really strict and i still mess it up ocassionally. The problem with this is that builds a bad habit when you get a chun who times it right. Your flash kick will whiff. Try to guage where the neckbreaker will make contact. Often I know I messed up the timing right after I push the button. If chun makes contact with you high (its really only safe if she makes contact and her legs are BELOW the stage) then its a free reversal flash kick, assuming you have the timing down. Otherwise don’t risk it you’ll eat the neckbreaker if you time it wrong. She only crosses up guile with her neckbreaker if she’s at point blank. So guess normal more often than not. Other characters its block normal always or its 50/50 something about guiles speed or hitbox makes it so its harder for chun to catch up to him for a crossup neckbreaker than normal (which is why this is the only match up you’ll see me do a ton ambiguous neckbreaker occasionally, simply because even with chuns amazing walk speed, some situations she can’t get close enough). When it looks ambiguous try to guague if she had extra time before pressing kick.if so its a guess. If not block normal. Judge by the actual time she has, not by the movement. I’ve purposely stutter stepped REALLY early so it looks like I ran out of time to trick guiles to blocking normal instead of backwards.
If chun jumps over you before meaty neckbreaker block the original direction. She can’t do it the other direction without making it look really obvious. Else she mistimed it and you can flashkick.
Again, its only guiles that can use these tricks, everyone either blocks normal all the time or its an absolute guess as we can dance around the sweet spot for a crossup.
Her neckbreaker has weird properties. It’s really ambiguous on shotos, but againt Dhalsim, it is ALWAYS in front, despite his huge hurt box. It’s bizarre.