Looks like I shut damdai up. And in the Guile thread too!!
Wait, reversal throws always win. There’s no coin tossing: frame-skipping aside, the player has two guaranteed chances of escaping the OS: reversal throw or special against the meaty and reversal throw against the throw. That’s the reason it does not work against better players unless you mix it up: they have good timing and reversal throw out of it.
option select doesn’t mean you always win.
for RPS match, if you can “execute” it, you can OS rock and paper at the same time. your opponent can still do paper to “neutralize” your OS so to speak, but OS still give you a greater risk/reward ratio like damdai said.
The point never was that it will always win. Of course it loses to reversal throw, which you will end up teching in the worst case scenario. Tick throws lose to reversal throws too you know. Think of it as an augmented tick throw.
Damdai succinctly explained that in a few sentences. You guys are being dumbasses.
LOL what a retard u r, u just discovered by urself some old news. I OS my dick in ur mouth n ur ass, either outcome u still get dick
I think the term here is risk vs. reward. What OSs do is to help mitigate risk. It’s not necessarily a win or lose scenario, it’s about producing optimal results for your character, one of which includes a tech throw. This is not just a rock < paper < scissors scenario, it’s about how to play both rock and paper at the same time.
And there’s a difference between ‘shutting someone down’ and getting ‘ignored because you’re retarded.’
I was being deliberately provocative and meant no disrespect. I just wanted damdai to clarify his earlier post because I still believe it’s a 50-50 chance in that situation as long as you reversal throw, and not the the huge reward that he was implying.
And unlike one poster here, I don’t just accept as truth what a top player says about the game.
I will criticize and question it if I think it’s wrong.
It’s a 100% chance (minus frameskip) to escape. You are guaranteed to escape the meaty. If you fail, then you got another chance, when he goes for the throw. And then you have a 100% chance of escaping, given you have perfect timing.
It’s an interesting technique, which has its main advantage in forcing the enemy to attempt counter throws, which are often not as easy as specials since they don’t have negative edge. But shotos, Honda, Gief, Hawk, Cammy, Fei and Dee Jay have 4 buttons for throws, which give them an acceptable chance of escaping by pianoing all those.
You must also be careful against which character you attempt this, and where. One usually does not want to get cornered by Guile or Dee Jay, for instance. Also, Honda, Hawk and Gief have strong special throws which can be used as a reversal.
Edit: forgot about Fei
Gief has 6 buttons for throws
I didn’t imply a huge reward. It’s in your favor because it covers 2 scenarios for the price of 1, block and reversal special.
Also, for characters with 2 kick and 2 punch throws, I don’t believe it’s possible to effectively piano them all.
While theoretically possible, it’s not practical, and shouldn’t really be mentioned.
EDIT: I just practiced a bit and it does seem possible, but I have to contort my hand in a weird way that would prevent me from doing other things quickly if the situation changed. Maybe it gets easier in practice, but I’ll stick with just pianoing fierce and strong.
I’ve ALWAYS pianoed my throw timings for characters with 2k and 2p throws. Did people really believe all this time think it was impractical? (even characters with only 2 throw buttons --chun, my main I piano my throws.)
In fact, now that I’ve had exposure to vampire savour style pushblocking, I’m better at it now than I was before.
Just use whatever works. I personally just piano 2 punch buttons, but I know some people just slide fingers across all 4 throw buttons to counterthrow. Whatever floats your boat.
I didn’t say pianoing was impractical. I said piaoning 2 punches + 2 kicks was impractical because of the button locations. In order to press each button consecutively, you must temporarily modify your natural hand position which is dangerous in such a fast paced game. But as eltrouble said, whatever works for you. Just be sure it’s actually working.
Why is there a black version of Guile? Does anyone know the origin story? Is it like how there were gonna be two Fei Long’s, but then Steve Godard made Deejay with Guiles moves so thats why theres a black Guile?
The story is Goddard designed him as a melee character. They ended up giving him a projectile, most likely for balance, but I think it makes some sense since all other new challengers would be melee characters, too.
Anyway, there’s a mulatto Guile since SSF2.
i need some help, currently learning guile in super turbo on fightcade. How do i deal with ryu doing lk tatsu outside of my cr mk range? For ex. they would do lk tatsu, then sweep cancelled into fireball. They are at a range where they can block a flashkick in time if I go for it when i see tatsu. Looking for something to knock them out of the tatsu or some kinda punish plz help lol thanks
Also, can I anti air early jump rh or fierce without flashkick? seems impossible
You can flash kick the LK tatsu if you have charge and good reactions, but that’s probably a bit difficult online. If they land right in front of you, the most common punish is cr.LP or cr.MP. Anything that hits mid is able to punish tatsu on recovery. I would not use low attacks to punish, as they can block when they land, and they can uppercut it if they catch onto what you’re doing.
If you’re good with your spacing and timing, you can also use Guile’s backfist (forward + HP). It does an exceptional job at punish LK tatsu, but might start trading if they use HK tatsu and your timing is off.
As far as anti-airs, you have a lot of them. The most classic Guile anti-air is a late cr.HP to punish jump ins. The timing is REALLY late, almost to the point where they’re about to hit you with a jump attack while you’re crouching, but it’s one of his most essential anti-airs. It will most likely trade, but it trades in your favor, and gives you breathing space, so you have to be comfortable with the idea of trading hits to maintain your spacing.
Other anti-airs are st.MP (you can do it while holding back), but has to be done early. You can also use j.HK, j.HP, neutral jump HK and HP, at a far distance you can use low attacks to anti-air like cr.MK and cr.HK. Backfist can be used as an anti-air at far distances, you can whiff a cr.strong and throw them as they land (matchup specific), etc…
One of the great parts of ST is the amount of anti-airs you can use at a variety of ranges and timing, so feel free to experiment with them!
Thanks a million for the reply. Also, if this is you, great games at EVO! Nice the tatsu punishing definitely helped even if i get them to block some cr jabs its worth it. As for anti airs i am getting really familiar with them but its the early jumpins. looks like they wouldnt be able to combo with anything but its not good for me if they make me block a jump. I will try to set a training dummy up and experiment. Once again thanks for the reply! Also if anyone comes across any footage of a lk tatsu being punished outside of flashkick please post for me
It is indeed me at Evo. Good games to you too!
cr.jabs aren’t much damage, but if you spam it right, it’ll punish the tatsu. It ain’t much, but damage is damage, and more importantly you get them away from you.
Blocking jumps is generally a bad thing for Guile, since now you get put into a mixup situation. Even if they don’t land the hit or get a combo, they’re not free to walk up and throw you, or go low, or push you into the corner, which are generally bad things for Guile. Learning how to stand your ground and maintain your zoning pattern is a pretty important skill for Guile players to learn early on, and it’s a big part of his defensive game.
I can’t recall footage of LK tatsu being punished by a flashkick, but I know for a fact that I’ve done it. It’s not commonly seen, since flash kick has limited range, and not many Ryus just random LK tatsu when Guile has a down charge, so it’s rare to see. Keep in mind that Guile’s MK flash kick does a better job hitting higher up attacks than the LK flash.