Guilty Gear Xrd -REVELATOR- one of life's gilty pleasures


#11909

His corner oki is way better, it’s just that his midscreen oki is much worse


#11910

Also Chipp’s neutral has always been better than Millia’s imo. That’s not to say that Millia’s is somehow bad, it’s just that Chipp’s is absurdly strong.

Also, speaking to Psaro’s point about how Samitto “only” used k teleport yrc 5 times in 5 matches. I think that it is not great of an argument for a number of reasons. For starters, it’s not something that you typically need to use numerous times because using it once is typically enough to gain control of the match. Also, the argument doesn’t make sense because of how Chipp fights by nature. If the opponent gets hit at round start, Chipp can literally carry that momentum to a perfect on occasion, would it be fair to count a round like that? There are just too many factors to consider before we could really accept an argument like that. The bottom line, imo, is that Chipp would still be really really strong without Gamma Beast and with k teleport as prc only, but he would also be more balanced


#11911

Chipp is obv better than Milia now.

Milia got a MASSIVE nerf to her play style. That matters because while yeah you do have other options, none of them were as strong as her knockdown oki game.


#11912

Speaking of nerfs, what’s up with the east talking about Zato being worse with the new changes? The proximity guard change on 22S/H doesn’t seem that bad, and the new puddle-generating properties seem like a plus to me. What happened?


#11913

I get your point, but, imo, you seem to be fixating too much on the number, when I also mentioned several other more substantive things about Samitto’s overall meter usage. Again, he literally never used it at all against Raven or Ramlethal, and he basically never used it against Venom the first match, except one time at the very end, and it’s not like Samitto was in constant control of those matches running triple perfects. How do you explain that? If Samitto could use K Teleport YRC to just win those matches outright, then why was the vast majority of his meter going towards other options? Like I said, I’m not going to disagree that it’s really strong, but as I implied in that last post, saying that K Teleport YRC will do all the work is a pretty bold claim. When the evidence seems to disagree, I think it takes more than a negative argument like this to prove your case. I’m ready to agree to disagree though, as I get the feeling that we just see things differently on this issue; the general idea you’re getting at in this post isn’t wrong, I just think K Teleport YRC is a symptom of a larger issue, which is that YRC in general and YRC with Chipp in particular are pretty strong. It’s one of many powerful YRC options in the game, and I’d be willing to let it rock if other elements of Chipp’s game are addressed appropriately or if YRC in general is toned down.

Proximity on drills is not the only nerf Zato got, and it’s relatively insignificant either way, as you said. Drills were also changed to be 0 on block, as opposed to +2, which is a pretty significant nerf to his stalling game. They also nerfed unsummon recovery pretty hard, which primarily has the effect of making Nobiru unsummon less plus on block. I believe testing has shown that Nobiru unsummon is now at best +4 on regular block (0 on IB), if the unsummon is timed perfectly, which it won’t always be. It’s not the worst thing in the world, but now, he can’t just get you to block something in neutral or during pressure, and then Nobiru unsummon to get enough frame advantage to reset pressure while also replenishing Eddie meter. It’s a strategy that can still be implemented, but isn’t as effective, as the opponent should have more effective escapes. So now, a lot of times, you have to forego the unsummon and just try to run a mixup with whatever meter you have left. Basically, they want Zato to commit to running a mixup instead of doing seemingly infinite blockstrings. In that light, it’s not necessarily an unjustified nerf, but it is a pretty hard nerf nonetheless and the additional unsummon recovery hurts him in neutral as well of course, since it makes unsummoning a bit easier to punish. These two things led Ogawa to declare the character “dead.” Though keep in mind that Ogawa tends to exaggerate things quite a bit sometimes.

The only move that generates a puddle in addition to drills now is Eddie -H-, which is only situationally useful. Even then, part of its usefulness was that that particular puddle couldn’t be destroyed, which apparently was a bug that was removed in the most recent patch that dropped a couple of days ago. Really, the best buffs Zato got in Rev2 are j.D wall bouncing in the corner on CH and a slight hurtbox buff to his 6P, which was unrecorded in the change notes.

As for the East’s perception of the character, there have been some JP players who have always looked at Zato in a negative light in Xrd, even back in his heyday in SIGN. Some outright said that the only reason Zato was considered top tier was because of Ogawa. Nowadays though, Ogawa isn’t as dominant as he was, in part due to Zato’s nerfs, in part due to the new characters in Xrd either being stronger or being difficult matches for Zato (Jack-O’ is easily his worst matchup) or both, in part due to other players getting better at fighting the character in Xrd, and maybe in part due to Ogawa himself just having some struggles. With that in mind, and given Ogawa himself saying that Zato is basically trash in this game, it’s not a surprise that people over there are going to be down on the character. Let’s also not forget that one of Zato’s hardest matchups, Chipp, is currently on top of the cast in this version.


#11914

#11915

I definitely agree that YRC is really strong. However, I take the opposite view when it comes to balancing it. The reason I suggested making k teleport prc only/remove gamma beast is because, imo, it would make Chipp less dumb, but it would also still leave him a lot of really powerful tools. I don’t think the same can necessarily be said of other characters.

Ky for instance, SE YRC is extremely strong, and imo it single-handedly takes him from solid character to great character. It is however a crucial part of his game and changing it up would hurt him a fair bit (the same could be said of Axl and Rensen YRC or Pot and Hammerfall YRC).

The opposite is true for Chipp imo. He has a ton of really strong tools, arguably the strongest toolset in the game, and then to top it off he has the 2 best yrc options as well. In conclusion, it’s just unnecessary for him to have all that. He would still be a very strong character without it, while I don’t think others could necessarily say the same.


#11916

I miss doing that shit :rofl:


#11917

I’ve personally always felt that YRCs should have been handled like FRCs were and that only certain things should be YRC-able.


#11918

Then it would defeat the whole idea of making it a new accessible alternative to FRC’s
Plus, there are already moves that can’t be YRC/PRC


#11919

Not really, there are some moves like uppercuts that can’t be YRC’d. FRC’s weren’t accessible because a lot of them had 2f input windows and some only 1f (at least in AC not sure if any of them kept 1f timing in AC+R since chipp’s teleport got adjusted to 2f in +R). 2f input windows in variable online lag are rough at times so YRC I think was meant to be more online friendly than anything.


#11920

Although it could be an early reaction, it is troubling that someone who has been the best player of Zato since before a lot of us were playing fighting games competitively has declared him dead. He should know better than anyone really unless there is some new optimal style for him that comes up from someone else.


#11921

Is not the 1st time he does that, he did the same with GG Slash and GG Ac+R.
He really gets salty when Zato isn’t the best character on the game. At the slightless sing of strugle for Zato he starts bitching about it.


#11922

Ogawa’s main tactic is getting the patch notes to favor him. Pay it no mind.


#11923

A good, classic tactic.


#11924

Ogawa whining like a scrub.


#11925

I knew it wasn’t my fault that I keep losing.


#11926

Sure fucking is.

That’s why I’m bitching and moaning to Make Sin Great Again.


#11927

Sin is still amazing, and unlike Ogawa, whose opinions at least carry some weight, I sincerely doubt ArcSys is going to listen to your whiny ass =V

I kinda feel Zato has the Mishima problem though, in that you feel a character that takes that much effort should be super powerful.


#11928

But that is the thing, Zato is still a strong character.