I think Hawk needs a more invincible DP for a longer time. Make it so that it beats everything and give all the old hit boxes to N hawk. And if you can fix the DP glitch so that hawk can control his reversal DP strength, that would help out in some matches. That should balance him out.
I have a lot of ideas for Blanka, but they require heavy modifications (HF Vertical ball for example) so I don’t know if that would be possible.
Some of the changes I want for Honda can be tricky too, but I’ll mention them anyways
- O.Honda normals: standing HP, cr.HP, standing LK and MK, cr.MP
- Can steer LP hands like O.Honda
- HK buttslam has HF like trajectory, to serve as a Boxer Buffalo Headbutt way to fight projectiles
- Extra priority on neutral jumping Fierce so it can beat/trade with stuff like Chun’s j.MK or DeeJay’s j.HK
- Find a way to make all hits of super connect, lol.
- HDR like priority on j.LK
- Remove stored Oicho
- Oicho always crosses up against a cornered opponent. This way another tick is possible, but after that the situation is reset
- Remove stored super
- Super damage reduced to 30%
- Less priority on HHS
- Jab headbutt has O.Honda startup
As for Hawk, I think N.Hawk with O.Hawk’s normals and a faster sweep would make him very strong, and that should be easy to implement. Touching anything else (besides the glitch) would probably be very dangerous lol.
Does moving zangief’s head hitbox up one pixel make it a worse anti air?
CWheezy: Not at all.
Cronopio: My idea for a balanced Hawk is very similar to yours. N.Hawk with the better normals from O.Hawk, as well as the better DPs. But then there would be no point in playing O.Hawk. I like the idea of balancing all n chars AND make the O.chars interesting to use. We can buff chars like O.Cammy, O.DJ, O.Blanka with some completelly new stuff just to make then interesting.
Anyway, some of the stuff you mentioned i know how to change, and others i dont. Anything that doesnt involves the quantity of frames some hitboxes are displayed or the actual hitboxes will not be possible, at least for now.
For Zangief, how about just adjusting the hurtbox at his head on the punch version? He’d have to commit somewhat that way, so if you could bait him into doing it, you could still, say, walk up and hit him with Honda’s long-range sweep. The other HDR properties each one had would be fine too.
For Hawk, first and foremost, get rid of the reversal bug. Eventually, if everyone figures how to reverse-engineer his throw whiff, we could have a version with that, but better, higher damage normals, slightly improved Rising Hawks, and two dives (along with throw tech and super).
“Old” Hawk could keep the smaller hurtbox and have a few very minor tweaks, but since he’d still have his amazing installs and tick setups, he’s not exactly hurting for throw techs, a super, or much of anything else. Once much of the rest of the cast at the top gets backed off (Sagat’s Tiger Shots, Claw’s Dive, etc), he could still beast.
“New” Hawk would have more varied and powerful options, but he wouldn’t have that safe option select everyone loves. Would give you a reason to choose between them, at least. If anyone’s seriously against this (as nothing satisfies everyone), I have a pretty in-depth list I’ve been polishing for going on four years, including specifics for changes that could be adapted across the different versions.
Give n.Fei all cancelable normals o.Fei has.
That would be a bit much for a Fei with comboable Chicken Wings, don’t you think?
Yeah, maybe, but since this hack is not meant to be serious, I mean, it won’t replace original ST in any way, I think it would be nice to have a Fei being able to cancel almost any normal while having chicken wing and super at his disposal. In ST my main is o.Fei, mainly for all the cancelables he has (ton of links that end in Rekkas), adding super, chicken and throw softening is my idea of a perfect Fei.
In that case, give all of Gief’s double suplexes the reversal bug, his HF kick lariat, instant dizzy headbutts, and all of his other HDR changes. Plus, let’s have him be able to call in a bear to attack you, and his super breaks your neck and permanently eliminates that character from the select screen.
Cool thread! I love the idea of just frame data and hitbox changes versus crazy SWEEPING changes (adding invincibility to moves, etc). But, since it really isn’t going to be played in a “real” capacity anyways, experimenting could be fun too. I dunno I am torn lol. I like that idea of ST with no supers but, lots of matches would have to be tweaked (N.Sim vs most of the cast is going to be rolling in his favor as is).
It’d be far easier to just build an external program that does the dirty work for you but using a graphical layout.
Like showing the sprite and allowing you to edit the box per the frame and just write the changes to the rom. I’d hate to do this blindly like you are now haha.
Yeah doing this blindly is a huge undertaking even the developer’s editor to showed the corners of the hitboxes on the characters.
What you guys mean by “blindly”?. I go exactly where the values that must be changed are. Also, with all the hitboxes images that i put in the wiki, its very easy to figure out which value i must change it to. Just a matter of analyzing the image and do some basic hex math. Once you get used to it it will not take more than 5 mins per change. But still, if i had an program that did this automatically it would be better. I thought about writing a simple tool in C to do this job (without an GUI of course, i dont even know how to code that…), but seriously i’m not that motivated. For the developer editor, does ST have it? I know that HF has it, i checked it last night, very cool stuff.
Anyway, i feel so lazy to do all this hacking stuff… ill probably just write a quick guide and post it here or something…
Well this is just one editor essentially for frame data. But, there is another edits the hitboxes.
Edit: I’ll upload the hitbox editor tomorrow.
Edit 2: The text is there so most likely it’s still there.
Exactly like that.
Man, if only there were a way to import all of the bonus stages from HF into ST…
Any chances on a tutorial for what has been figured out so far?
Just to make sure, there is no way for this stuff to get thrown into GGPO, Right?
Or if there is, do both players have to have the same version to the Rainbow ROM, right?
*********************************************** ST RAINBOW ROM *************************************************
Be careful what you create… LOL