Hakan Input Problems

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
#1

This is an issue that I’ve experienced and noticed other people complaining about on gamefaqs.com. However, I’m not a member of that site and I don’t think a satisfactory conclusion was reached, so I’m posting it here in case it helps anyone. :slight_smile:

Problem
When attempting to perform an oil slide (qcf+p), some people often find an oil rocket (360+p) comes out instead. This nearly always whiffs (causing Hakan to exclaim “Seriously???”), and the long recovery frames give enough time for the opponent to punish with just about anything, including their ultra. This can make the difference between winning and losing, and it’s frustrating especially since the oil rocket wasn’t being attempted in the first place.

Reason
This happens because the game has shortcuts that mean the full 360 motion doesn’t need to be performed. The oil rocket will always come out when BOTH these 2 conditions are met:

  1. You were holding back to block before inputting the qcf+p. For this reason, it’s most common when trying to block and punish. (Note: Holding downback doesn’t seem to cause any problems.)

  2. You overextend the qcf movement, ending in the up-forward position. This may be more common for stick users, who may use a quick hand movement to execute the qcf, flicking the stick from down-forward to forward with the backs of their fingers. (This never leads to misread inputs when using a shotokan character, so may be an easy habit to get into.)

Solution
Since not holding back to block before attempting an oil slide is impractical, the only solution is to ensure you do not end a qcf motion with up-forward. I’ve tested this in training mode, and as long the motion doesn’t end in up-forward, Hakan’s oil rocket will NEVER come out by mistake. When using a stick, the easiest way to ensure this is to consciously hold the stick in the forward position until you see the oil slide happen on screen, before putting the stick back into neutral. A good way to practise this in training is to record Ken performing an HP Shoryuken, then on playback STAND BLOCK it, and punish on landing with cr.mk, qcf+p, p. Once this is consistent, there should be no more problems in real matches.

Note
A lot of people commenting on gamefaqs mistakenly assumed the problem was caused by players not putting the stick back into neutral after blocking and before attempting an oil slide. Therefore they mistakenly assumed that the solution was to ensure the stick went back into the neutral position before inputting the qcf+p command. However, I’ve tested this in training and have found that putting the stick in neutral makes no difference. **B, [neutral], D, DF, F, UF **WILL result in an oil rocket every time, unless the stick is left in neutral for a long time. (When I tested, I could leave in neutral for over half a second, and the misread input still occurred.) Thus, the only solution to this is what I have written above.

If anyone is experiencing any other input problems with Hakan they would like to discuss, please feel free to use this thread. :slight_smile:

#2

Additional Notes:
I noticed that another thread has already discussed this issue, so I apologise if this is duplicating. However, the purpose of this post is to explain in clear terms a solution that has worked for me 100% of the time, rendering it a non-issue. Also, there may be other input problems. (E.g. Occasionally when I input dp+k to perform an oil shower, his oil dive throw comes out instead. This is nearly always fatal, but mostly down to sloppy execution on my part, and doesn’t happen often. However, if anyone knows exactly why this happens and what to do to ensure it never happens again, I’d love to hear about it!

Some people have pointed out another circumstance whereby the 360 movement comes out if the player was holding up-back just before inputting the qcf motion, even if they end with forward (instead of uf). I haven’t experienced this problem since I can’t think off the top of my head of a situation where I would be holding up-back immediately before performing an oil slide. In this case the solution is to put the stick into neutral after jumping backwards. (This has always been my natural habit, since I don’t see the point in continuing to hold up-back once I’ve left the ground.)

If there any other instances whereby 360 accidentally comes out and my solution doesn’t help, please let me know, because I’d love to know when it happens and what I can do to avoid it. :slight_smile:

#3

True, it has been discussed elsewhere, but I think it’s good to have a thread providing explanation and solutions on specific things to watch out regarding Hakan’s issues. Your solutions are the ones I use too.

To give them some more background:

Understanding SPD/DDT input issues

Understanding the mechanics behind the “360” motion and the so-called shortcuts can really help to solve input issues with overlapping commands on a character such as Hakan.

- You only need to hit the four main directions quickly enough to get a SPD or DDT out.
You don’t really need to do a circular motion. You could hit left, right, down, up + punch and get a SPD. That’s actually how PC keyboard players do it.

Of course, with a pad or a stick, it’s easier to do a circular motion. But this explains why you can skip some diagonal inputs and why making sure the stick goes through neutral doesn’t prevent a SPD or DDT to come out.

225° degrees is enough

As we all know, it is enough to do a 225° motion from back to up-forward (or the other way round) to get a SPD or DDT. That’s because the up-forward input count as both forward and up and, thus, this motion does indeed register the four different directions. Same goes for up-back to forward motion (or the other way round).

Note: For some reason, starting with a neutral jump or from a crouch position requires an additional input (270°), but since one is buffering the motion, it doesn’t really matter anyway.

Preventing input issues

Dannyboy4885 gave the correct solutions to get a flawless execution and prevent seemingly random SPD/DDT input. So, just to sum up.

SPD instead of slide when blocking
Back to up-forward is a 225° motion that will give you a SPD.

  • if you are blocking high, make sure you end the motion in the forward direction and don’t hit up-forward
  • if you have been blocking low, there is no trouble

SPD or DDT when you want to slide or oil up after a jump back
Up-back to forward is a 225° motion that leads to a SPD or DDT (doesn’t matter if you hit additionnal inputs such as down and down-forward once the motion is done).

  • Learn not to hold back while jumping. I did it, so anyone can. We can’t block while in the air anyway, can we?

  • Yyou can also make use of the famous DP shortcut to oil-up by doing: up-back to down-forward, down, down-forward + kick. Since you never hit forward, no way the SPD might come out.

#4

(double post)

#5

But what do you suggest you do if you jump back for some reason and upon landing, see a slide opportunity? this is one of my main booboos.
But the game in particular just seems to hate Hakan. Oil = 360k?
d,d,d+kkk = Oil?

#6

@TheGlow
If you tap up-back to jump and release straight away, the time it takes Hakan to jump should mean that you can input a slide immediately upon landing (making sure not to end in the up-forward position) without risking an oil rocket 360 grab. It’s only if you continue to hold up-back whilst jumping that you risk overlapping inputs when you land.

I know what you mean, sometimes I wish the shortcuts could be less relaxed. Also, the recovery frames of a whiffed 360 really could do with being shortened, but that’s just me being biased. :smiley:

Smiley B. gave a great summary of how to avoid the problem, which also covers the oil shower/oil dive input problem. I’m going to give this a go and see if it helps me. As for the Ultra 2 (OCH) / Oil shower mixup, I don’t have much experience with this, since I regularly use Ultra 1 (Oil Coaster). Does anybody else know of this problem or have any effective ways of dealing with it? If so, please post up a reply! :slight_smile:

#7

in one of my loss videos against adon, i tried to do empty jump into U2 to catch a predictable jaguar kick, but EX oil came out?!!?? cost me the match :frowning:

#8

Ending in the forward or up-forward position really doesn’t matter in that case, as long as you only tap the stick to jump back. But since it’s really essential to end in the forward position when sliding after a backdash or high block as you noted in your first post, better get the habit anyway.

Only tapping the stick to jump back really is the solution here. I think it’s also a good habit execution-wise as it makes it easier and faster to react with one of many options upon landing (blocking, sliding, oiling, st.HP, f.HK, coward crouch…)

I went in training with Gief, which I never play, thinking I’d find the kind of issue with SPD and Green Hand after a jump back, since it’s the same overlapping motions… And I was suprised to see it’s not the case: execution sloppiness just ends up with some normal punch, not a whiffed SPD or an unwanted command grab.

So, yes, looks there’s something a bit different with Hakan as far as input leniency goes. <_<

Ultra 2 / Oil Shower mixup

Never had the issue either, but I think I see where it might stem from, as dragon Punch shortcut is df, d, df. So ending the Ultra 2 motion with that string might get an EX Shower instead.

From what I’ve seen, U2 requires three “clean” down inputs to come out, but if this issue arise (might be partially controller-related) I guess one solution might be to try and lean more on the down-back side.

#9

That’s absolutely right. Getting into the habit also ensures you don’t risk a 360 grab if you happen to block back immediately after landing and before inputting qcf+p. (I sometimes do this if I anticipate or react to the opponent jumping in on me after I jump back.)

#10

This is a great thread! Im gonna have to practice this. The only issue i have is this: Why in gods holy name do we have to fucking adapt like this? This is whats pissing me off about SSFIV. My inputs were fine in other fighting games but SFIV just fucked everything up for me. Whatever off to training mode i go to re-learn everything -_-

#11

I main Gief and input problems are very rare.
Ive had some rare cases of ex hands becoming ex SPDs.
And since super when I do cr lp 3x, cr lk, ex hand often times Ill get a 360 K out off the cr lk. rare, but happens. if I hold the lk instead, Ill get the hand. But you would figure I should be whiffing a 360p instead. Games all jacked up.
And then Adon and T.Hawks reverse SRK never seem to want to come out at all. Ive asked others and they agree. I think the shortcuts are brizzoken.

#12

since this is maybe the best place to post this here it is

Performing SAVE LK-Oils after Slide+BB

there are 3 rules

  1. DONT MASH it will come out fast BUT NOT FAST ENUGH!
  2. Dont BUFFER to early you can not buffer it till almost the very very end of the move actualy the only part of oil you can “buffer” is the motion
  3. buffer the motion use the inputlatency and doubletap the button

if you use this correkt it will be EITHER

  1. SAVE LK Oil (well timed)
  2. NOTHING (to late)
  3. LK (TO TO TO LATE!!)
    all 3 should be save!!
#13

We shouldn’t have to adapt, but crapcom thinks we should so all the little scrubbies out there can have fun and think they are doing something when they mash the shit out of there controllers and get srk’s so there ya go. An OPTION to turn this retarded garbage off would be nice crapcom.

#14

You already posted how much shortcuts and such piss you off like 3 times in the other thread. I can’t say I disagree, but the fact is they are in and we can’t do much around about it around here. It would be nice if we could keep this thread clean enough and stick to solutions and discussion to work around the issue. :slight_smile:

I do quite often eat a reversal move when I try to LK oil after a knockdown, so I’m looking for a way to test this out in training. How can I get the dummy to throw a reversal?

#15

set dummy to record and do one quick shoryuken and stop the recording immediately. play back should be contant srks

#16

hahahah yea i know, my bad but man it has me really irritated. Your right tho, not much to be done about it. :stuck_out_tongue:

#17

I’ve never really had an input problem but as far as someone saying his U2 was giving him an oil, I think that d/f d/f is a DP shortcut. Could very well be the case.

#18

I get the input problem sometimes… when trying f+MP into slide, I seem to rear back and whip out the easy whiff 360+P sometimes. Also when jumping back into slide.

Sucks, but that’s playin’ Hakan. Gotta learn how to be precise with the slide motion. Can’t be swingin’ the stick around for slide. Now that I’m aware of it I don’t miss it as much. Still seems to get me in the most clutch moments though… lol

#19

I know I always echoed Hakan’s “Seriously?” every time it happened. I wonder if executing a dragon punch motion instead will help.

#20

one easy solution (although not as good as practicing your execution) is you can do the oil slide by performing a shoryuken motion. Oil rocket will never come out from this.