Hakan Ultras

hakan

#1

Ok so I’ve been playing around XBL and I’ve gotten decent with Hakan. Right now I’m trying to make a list of preferred matchups for Hakan’s two ultras and I would like everyone’s input on this subject matter. This early list is based on what I’ve seen from XBL. If this subject was touched upon earlier, the moderators can go ahead and lock the thread.

Oil Coaster (grab):
Guile, Bison/Dictator, Rose, Hakan, Makoto, Cody
Oil CH (Anti-air):
Cammy, Honda, Shoto characters and their offshoots (Sakura, Gouken, etc.), the Twins, Juri, Rufus, Gen, Vega/Claw

If anyone has advice for ultras against other characters such as Dhalsim and Sagat it would be highly appreciated since I personally have issues with those two characters.


#2

In my experience, unless you’re great with setting up throwing situations (or you can do the rare Standing 720) Oil Coaster is more of a burden than a boon. I’ve watched a lot of Hakans, and even in my own experience you spend more time worrying about how to set up and hit oil coaster than you do paying attention to your own spacing. Sure, it’s powerful, but it also lacks the same kind of catch-all that SPD ultra’s like Zangief’s have.

Really, I consider Oil Combination Hold to be the go to ultra for the fact that it eliminates every characters ability to jump in on you. Against low to mid experience players, this can mean a lot. Against higher level characters you can apply it as a punish (which serves two-fold: a decent chunk of damage, and it gets you some seperation since it shoots them across the screen).

Here’s a small list of specials that are punishable by OCH
-Dragon punches (minus Oni’s EX in certain situations), including as a counter punish on block as they fall down
-Hurricane kicks
-Spiral arrow and block punish for cannon spike if in the corner and Hooligan Combo
-Psycho Crusher, Dictator’s head stomp if they don’t pull up in time (which at some point there is a point of no return where if you pop it this will activate no matter if they pull up or not)
-Sumo Head Butt
-Teleports, minus Akuma/Oni/E. Ryu’s teledash
-Blanka balls
-Any dive kick, including Gen’s command dive Oga
-A majority of Vegas’ air moves
-Guy’s throw dive

I could continue, but you get the idea. One of my other favorite tricks is standing next to a downed opponent on their wake up and pop it at the last possible second. You’d be surprised how often you can catch them trying to jump or do a wakeup move only to get caught. This strategy is double effect if you have them pinned in the corner, as their only option will be to simply block, but against Hakan they may expect an EX wakeup throw.

Oh, and let’s not forget another setup for U2: Focus attack, cancel dash then pop it. It’ll activate as they crumple. Pathetic damage if you aren’t oiled, but considering how much of an advantage an oiled Hakan has in hitting a focus attack thanks to being able to move, it’s something to always keep in mind.

I’m not saying U1 has it’s uses. if you’re not strong against Charge characters like Guile and Balrog, it’s something to consider if you don’t keep strong about baiting a jump or a punish. In those cases, here are my favorite (and somewhat usable) setups for U1.

-The short slide: This can be done oiled or not, but keep in mind that your sliding distance will change. If you have distance between you and your opponent (at least midscreen), do an oil slide that will leave Hakan not quite landing next to the opponent, but out of punish range. This is best used against opponent’s you have conditioned to block and punish the slide. as Hakan is coming out of the slide and popping up from the animation, buffer U1. As soon as Hakan comes out of the animation and stands up U1 will immediately pop. By using the short slide, you can fake your opponent into thinking you will land next to them. As I said, useful and effective if you have trouble quickly buffering 720s, as this gives you a bit extra time.

-The Standing 720. Ah, the rare standing 720. Hard to do with a fightstick, near impossible with a controller (though, after a week of practice am now able to do without fault using a Dual Shock 3), the standing 720 gives you an advantage for a simple fact: players are pre-conditioned to assume that if a grappler with a 720 ultra jumps at you, you should jump, as they are probably attempting to el-kabong you by using the jump as their buffer. By using the standing 720, you can eliminate this expectation. Of course, this takes time and in game practice to get down. Patience, young one.

-Sliding focus attack setup. Of course, this is the other setup that most people would expect to be tried, landing a focus attack then performing the ultra. Hakan has an advantage in that he can move will charging a focus attack, use this to your advantage, but keep in mind that if your focus attack connects when they try to jump in, they won’t crumple and will instead go flying off into space, never to be thrown by a giant oily man.

Finally…

-The Crisco Throw: This takes a lot of coordination, and quite possible a lot of muscle memory since you are applying the crisco FADC and the standing 720 into one maneuver. This will require Hakan to be oiled and have a bit of space to work with. Of course, we know that Hakan can cancel his dash while oiled with any of his normals. The same is applied to U1. Likewise, you can cancel your focus attack with a dash, with the dash then being cancelled into U1. This can be applied in an FADC combo as well, but may take more precision on the player’s part to land in the middle of a combo since the dash used to buffer U1 is shorter.

Hope any of this helps.


#3

Sorry, mate. I actually responded to your question on Sim and Sagat, but my connection in the office where I work went out. The gist was that U2 is a good deterrent to Sim’s teleports, but be careful of them trying to bait out U2 by teleporting in place. As for Sagat, typical shoto rules apply, and use U2 as a punish/bait for DPs and tiger knees.


#4

Even more advice for Sim: Don’t get ancy. You’ll have an urge to try and dash in or slide to beat his zoning, but don’t. You want to make them come to you and bide your time by avoiind his fireballs with the coward crouch, beating out his zoning normals with focus attacks and jabs, and using S.HP as an anti-air to a lot of his tricks. It’s a game of time and patience against Dhalsim, but eventually you can find a crack and get in. Once you do, stay in and he’ll have a hard time getting away from you (especially since sliding to a porting Sim is rather quick and they often don’t have the time to respond).


#5

After a blocked dp, or just punishing in general, try cr. mk into ultra reset. People are always expecting you to finish the cr. mk into slide, so this works a lot.


#6

Wow. Thanks guys.

So yeah U2 is definitely useful against plenty of characters. Oddly enough I did find a consistent way to land U1 but involves Hakan’s wakeup game after a slide. I know post-slide you can oil or go for extra damage. Usually I go with the damage since you can still do light oil shower safely if you do it quickly enough. With this in mind, I use the light oil shower to buffer my 720 and activate the ultra just as the opponent is up. Surprisingly, a lot of people do sit still for me to catch them more often than I expected on XBL.


#7

Depending on how confident you are at dealing with jump ins, or cross-ups attempts, the damage that U1 puts out shouldn’t be ignored.

I find it most effective by throwing out a command normal at the right range to either whiffing or force them to block, ticking into Ultra 1.

Most players online have no idea Ulra 1 is following the normal. The other use I have is against cross-up attempts as you are waking up. Hit cr.hp and you will duck under them - buffer in U1, by the time you come out of cr.hp they will have landed and they get grabbed, this also works with regular SPDs when you are oily.

I get great success with all of these moves into U1:

f.rh - unoiled only
f.mp - amazing range if you are oily and dnc into the f.mp
f.mk - works better when oily for me
cr.mk at close range - this is one of my faves, as you can use it as a mixup in the mp safe jump setup.
cr.hp - again amazing range if you are oily and dash into it
f.hp - only if you are oily and they are in the corner and they block the f.hp.

Also don’t forget the safe slide setups for SPDs also work with U1 but I find most players have cottoned onto it now, so best to maybe FADC the slide on hit and if they jump away you can dash and try to catch them with an oil dive or a slide as they land, or if they have blocked - churn dat buttah after the dash cancel, say a hail mary and hope the ultra lands.

Without doubt U2 is an amazing defensive option, but sometimes I find having 50% damage in your back pocket is pretty handy, I have taken a ton of games from people who thought they were safe sitting on a life lead late into a round and U1 goes off and drops them.


#8

U2 is good in certain situations, but in general, my philosophy is this: if you need to rely on U2 to anti-air people, it isn’t really that good, because you’ll just do your 350 or whatever damage, and then they’ll keep jumping at you again once you’ve popped it. Learning how to use non-U2 anti-airs is much better in the long run. Also, the better the players you play against, the less they will be jumping. However, the big exception to this is that U2 can stop oki pressure where normals can’t; i.e. against Akuma’s vortex or El Fuerte’s miscellaneous bullshit. OCH is a great deterrent against characters that depend on that kind of thing. There are also a few characters (such as Chun and Honda) against whom U2 can be used in extremely effective option selects.

On the other hand, U1 opens up a lot of possibilities in terms of punishing things. Being able to do things like punish any poorly-spaced dive kick on reaction is a pretty substantial draw. Many of the things Eyepawd posted above that can be punished with U2 can also be punished with U1 for more damage, or by a simple cr.MK/cr.LP xx Slide. Having U1 stocked when your opponent is on their back really makes them want to do something to get away from it, and if you can predict/option-select correctly against them, you will put them right back in the exact same situation.

There are some matchups where U2 is especially useful, but I generally prefer U1 for the majority of characters.


#9

Pretty much this ^. I don’t really like relying on U2, and U1 is just such a big threat when added to your offense. Not to mention the help it adds to your defense when not oiled. Although since any SPD gives you a lot more oil in AE, and now that I’ve figured out how to successfully incorporate U2 into my offense, I’m thinking U2 might be preferred in a few more matches. You can really use it to limit your opponents options and force them to the corner. It’s especially fun throwing out normals like s.:mk: and f.:mp: while buffering :d::d: and waiting to hit that last :d:+:k::k::k:

I’ll probably go over each character when I have a bit more time.


#10

I’m in a similar boat, I don’t really like using U2, since it makes me feel more defensive. Ultra 1 gives Hakan a shot at huge comeback potential, being the strongest ultra in the game, when he’s oiled. If you can learn to put tick ultras into your game, it’s pretty scary.


#11

I use both Ultras respectively. I use to used them depending on the character, however I’ve been training hard (and watching videos) and learn how to be more lenient with the ulras. Case in point, I would use Ultra 2 with Ryu all the time. Come to realize Ultra one is better against him. Same thing with Deejay. use to use U1 all the time for him, but U2 is better (IMHO). With that being said, I have no issues using either one with ANY character i face (its more of a phychological thing if you ask me) now. however I can see how Hakan players get stuck using one Ultra for matchup purposes. Both are really good Ultras.


#12

I respect the sizeable chunk of damage that Oil Coaster does, trust me. As an Ibuki player that used to use U1 (which does about 45% health fully charged), I certainly know how it feels to have that home run swing in your back pocket.

But, I also can’t shirk just how useful U2 is in making your opponent change their gameplan on face the consequences. Sure, the damage isn’t all that impressive, but it has the ability (similarly to Rose’s U2) to eliminate a part of your opponent’s game if they are aware of what is going on. Looking at my number of ultra wins (currently at 210, all but 5 of them with Ultra 2), I simply can’t do anything but advocate for oil combination hold.

Besides, it’s far more embarrassing for an opponent to be shot out of an oily man’s arse.

=D


#13

That’s assuming that damage is the only reason you’d use U1. Don’t forget that it’s a 1 frame grab that does some of the highest damage in the game. It also has good range even when you aren’t oiled. All of that is more than enough to massively change the game plan of loads of characters. Why do you think other grapplers use their U1s consistently?

Good players can mount completely solid offenses without leaving the ground. It’s risky to jump. I only recommend U2 if they take to the air a lot, or if it shuts down a large portion of their strategy. Consider this though, you’re in HKD, unoiled, with U2. The opponent can meaty normal with an OS completely for free, they don’t really need to jump. If you have U1, you can at least EX spd safe jumps, and ex/slide away from later ones.

U2:
Akuma
Blanka
Viper
DJ
Honda
Fuerte
Ibuki
Dictator (Scissor pressure is annoying, but he’s usually going to be too far away. U2 is useful in too many other ways)
Rose? (I was thinking this lately. She has pretty solid ways to get around grabs, and U2 could be helpful)
Seth
T. Hawk
Zangief

U1: everyone else

On the fence:
Adon (he’s in the air so much, but one mis spaced JK and he eats an U1.)
Gen (don’t know Gen nearly enough)
Gouken (leaning more toward U2, super handy for his demon flip shenanigans)
Rufus (love U1 for a free punish everytime he let’s a GT fly, but U2 is useful for obvious reasons)


#14

Well Swoops, looking at your list, I do see your point on this. If you have U2 and nothing else against a really smart player, it’s hard to mount a counter-attack and U1 makes sense in that regard. It’s just with U1 I have personally limited knowledge on my ticks to ultra. Roujin did list recommended normals so I guess I’ll try that.

Aside from that, against Gen I would say U2. Considering how much time Gen can spend in the air, it’s a better choice.


#15

I swear you can tick nicely into U1 off pretty much all his command normals, as well as after whiffed command normals. If you have wrists of steel you can use it in the chained cr.lk>spd instead of the spd!

Oh and if you are oily, the grab range on the Oil Coaster is fairly ridiculous.


#16

I think the oil coaster range is pretty much the same if he’s oiled and unoiled?

But yeah, totally, ticking into ultra should be added to your game. I like standing mk > ultra, and f.lk ultra, gives you good time to spin that stick, ha.


#17

It’s the same? Hah, I thought the range changed like it does with the SPD! Learn something new every day.

Also as Drew points out f.lk tick into U1 is awesome. Worth practicing now that f.lk has become a much more commonly used move with the combo into slide. Condition them to expect the slide, drop the ultra, ???, profit.


#18

I appreciate the difference in opinion, but as you can do with U1, I can make a case for almost every character (minus a few glaring examples) that U2 is far too useful. And yes, there is always someone going to bring up the fact that U2 is an anti-jump, and, yes, it’s easy to assume that “good players” won’t jump, but I don’t really think that is a valid argument, as I’ve watched plenty of Wildcat’s videos, and I’ve seen him apply (and connect) with U2 more than a few times. But, moreso to the point, having U2 in your backpocket against a “good player” is far more of a trump card than against a “bad” one. Mostly because a good one will know to look out for it, thus, they will be thinking about it. Just with that, you’ve already forced them to change their gameplan. besides, there are more practical set-ups for controlling the game, such as oil trapping in the corner (with either making them play a three way guessing game on wake up in the corner, which happens a lot consider Hakan’s propensity to get opponents into one of the corners with his throws, or by making use of j.mp’s in air effect of allowing a follow-up with U2).

I’m not going to lie: I feel more comfortable making the opponent play a guessing game against U2 than with U1. But, to be fair, I play my Hakan differently than most, in that I tend to rely on normals more than I do his command throws (which is something I’ve been working on, but because I know the character’s normals like the back of my hand I can compensate).

I’m not saying you’re wrong and U2 is the only choice, I’m merely saying that U2 has just as much merit and applicable use as an ultra that acts as a home run swing. I think of it a lot like baseball, sometimes you need a big swing, and sometimes you need the guy that can lay down a bunt.

Hopefully I didn’t sound like I had a stick up my arse about this. >_> lol


#19

Don’t worry, argument is how we move forward. You say you can make an opposite case for almost every character, then do so. I feel like it’s just a cop out to say that U1 is just difficult to incorporate.

I essentially think of it this way. You have U2 stocked. It changes their entire plan. They can’t jump or use any airborne moves for risk of getting ultra’d. But that’s the thing, jumping or using airborne moves is already risky. There are numerous ways in SSF4 to punish jumps and airborne moves, but the safest option in this game is to just sit and block. Having U1 and being able to use it effectively forces any opponent, and especially good ones, to move erratically in fear of getting hit by a large damage ultra that punishes them for doing the safest thing they possibly could’ve done. Frankly, this is an immense presence in competitive play, as opposed to U2 which causes them to…continue safe grounded pressure which you can’t do shit about when you aren’t oiled.

It’s not necessarily about the guessing game, or practical set ups, it’s about which ultra makes them risk more on a constant basis (without even using the ultra no less.) I’m not saying that U2 isn’t amazing, in fact I recommend U2 for almost half the cast, but I do get frustrated when it seems like most people just turn to U2 because they either can’t handle airborne pressure, or they can’t incorporate U1 properly.


#20

I’m not going to lie: Half of what makes me like U2 so much is that I find it hilarious every time. And, honestly, it should be more about having fun than winning, and i have far more fun winning via shooting a fully sized human out of an oily man’s ass. =P