Hakan Vs girls (Chun li / C.Viper / Ibuki / Cammy / Rose / Makoto)

hakan

#1

update 20111010
Thread was initially “Hakan vs Chun Li”, but I’ve decided to change the thread to Hakan vs the Girls, this is due to the fact the i believe it has some of the hardest match-up for Hakan… and of course i find it hard personally against them and wish to gain some updated tips and share in this discussion other than the match-up thread.

i’ve recently fought many chun-li / ibuki / viper in the past month and have felt that they are some of the hardest match up for Hakan, especially ibuki.
For ibuki, i find it hard due to
-cant jump
-cant oil
-her jumps-in are usually right on top of your head - hard to AA.
-99sec game, with her life lead and chipping your life away slowly.

Here are some of the strats that i’ve been utilising against Ibuki:

vs. Ibuki
reactions
-punish blocked Neck-breaker (ibuki sliding) with [ c.lp/c.mk > slide ]
-punish blocked Raida (energy grab) with [ c.lp/c.mk > slide ]
-punish blocked ex.dp with [ s.hp > f.mp > slide ]
(info from jap Arcadia magazine: best way for Hakan to punish this move wether ibuki does dagger follow-up or not)

setups
[ Standard mid-screen & corner uncrouchable setup ] works.
-but most of these setup timing is more strict than others.
so for some of the setup involves hk.dive, use mk.dive for more coverage and or use the setup ending with mk.dive.

[slide/press > walk back little > n/f j.mk/j.hk ] -safe jump

[ slide/press > jump.over > s.mk > options ]

i use U2 mainly to scare her to stop doing votex on hakan once i have it.
But with the footsie & chip dmg style, i cant get enough dmg to them.
so i am not sure if U1 is more effective?

HOW TO DEFEND HER VOTEX with no u2 and unoiled hakan? xp


20110926
hi guys, since i’ve been having so much trouble against Chun li, thoght u guys can help me out with strats/setup/videos.

Its the offensive Chun that i kept losing to.
This guy that plays like Nemo’s vanilla Chun. its so annoy.

This are some of the stuff that i’ve been trying to utilise so far:

VS. CHUN-LI
reactions:
-punish blocked SBK (spinning bird kick) with [ f.lk/c.mk/f.mp > hp Sliding ].
-f.mp is good against Chun’s j.hp.hp

setups:
-slide/press > walk back alittle > j.mk/hk (safe jump)
[S]-hp.rocket > s.mk > j.mk (stuffs ex.SBK) ??[/S]
[S]-ex.rocket > dash > j.hk (stuffs ex.SBK)[/S]
[S]-slide/press > s.lp > neutral.j.hk (safe against SBK)[/S]
-slide/press > s.hp > mk dive (un-crouchable) (works best for PC version)
-slide-only (hit/knockdown) > FDC back > f.lk > hk dive (uncrouchable)
-all corner setups works on her

heres are some of the most annoying part i felt against chunli:
-Focus back dash
-Hazanshu (overhead kick) = on hit > super… big dmg for early round 2.
-safe empty jump-in c.lk > combo etc. << this i can do ex.rocket, but she mix up with Hazanshu.
-she gets in easy, so agile

come to think of it, i lose dmg alot due to this setup:
(knock down or or not) empty jump-in > throw/c.lk/hazanshu


#2

i saw a video not to far back and it showed a good hakan using c.mk to punish ex SBK


#3

@imafatloser
i hate ppl like you how dont read the post and just give there thougts out … its annyoing he already mentioned the right punish for SBK -->-punish blocked SBK (spinning bird kick) with [ f.lk/f.mp > hp Sliding ]. but f+MP is by faar the most damaging

@jakult
try to avoid getting hit by here airials (i avoid most jumpins from here with c.hk but i think that’s something hard to master and not worth it (i only masterd it by accident LOL) but the problems are here jumpins and the good spacing footsies and hakan hafe many footsys that trade or win against here c.hk or standing hk or other stuff where she try to space

But against rushdown you need to learn focus atack spacing DNC and specialy when there is the right time to SPD and devinitly use U1


#4

read the whole thing goof boy, just mentioned that i saw a high lvl player using c.mk.

nothing wrong with taking tips from the pro’s, maybe he did it as a clutch fuck up reaction, or maybe he thinks its better.

try not to be a scrub and take some tips.


#5

Geez guys, what’s with the hostility goin’ down in these threads during the last week?

Nothing wrong with what FatLoser said, cr.mk is a very valid punish option against EX SBK, the timing is stricter for f.mp.

Anyway why was a new thread created for this? We have a matchup thread for this stuff.


#6

You’ll want to stay oiled as much as possible (no kidding, right?) and utilize Hakan’s sliding FA. Chun’s best mid-range pokes are S.FP, S.RH, and C.RH, all of which are prime FA bait. S.RH usually isn’t weak against Focus but with the sliding FA even that becomes unsafe for her. S.MP is another one of her great pokes but if Hakan charges up at the right time he can catch her for a crumple. Also remember that Hasanshu is major Focus bait, so if you think your Chun opponent is going to Hasanshu it won’t hurt to go into FA and just see what happens. All possible without oil, but with makes it much easier. If Chun isn’t using U1, you can drop back to full screen and oil as you like.

If your Chun likes to Focus backdash, do Oil Sliding. You may just have to throw a few out there to show her you’re serious about catching her in the act. You may not be able to catch every FA backdash but hopefully you can discourage her from relying on it.

If you knock Chun down, get on her ass and stay on it. Chun’s biggest weakness is getting rushed down. Make her burn meter on EX SBK, and this takes away her ability to super you later. You might eat an EX SBK or two but the biggest advantage is keeping Chun meterless. If you do get hit by EX SBK, unless Chun decides to rush after you take the opportunity to oil up since EX SBK sends you flying and try to get back in her face.

U2 is probably a better choice against Chun - it’ll be hard to try and U2 Hasanshu on reaction but simply having it will force the Chun player to think twice about using it. You might have to be random with it once or twice just to show her you’re willing to throw it out to catch empty jump Hasanshu’s or wherever the Chun might want to toss them.


#7

thanks for the feedbacks so far its all good.

@drew : i just want a dedicated thread on vs chun discussions as i m having so much trouble with her. i hate chun li! >:(
hopefully we can gather all data/strat/details on this match up.

staying oiled is always good advice :slight_smile:
but with this offensive style i cant seem to be oiled enough, talking about FDNAC ><

also any suggestions of how to punish a blocked 1000kick, ex or not?

can anyone link any video regarding safe jump against her/ ex.SBK baits/ or sutff SBK setups?

she get in and gets away too easy, want something to keep her in the loop…


#8

Yakult, this is what I use when i go against chunski hehe

1k Kicks info:
For 1000 kicks I don’t know any punish yet, but if you CC underneath her EX 1k kicks you won’t actually get hit I’ve had accidents wanting to do U1 and end up getting CC. For some reasons if you try to slide her when shes EXing 1k kicks the lp slide gets in, the hp and mp sometimes get hit (can’t prove this 100% hittable sometimes they are hit sometimes they aren’t maybe range dependent)

Stuffing EX SBK attempt (Old):
for post slide - press stuff I usually use (old one) walk towards her and when she wakes up I vertical jump and early mk as soon as the gravitation pulls me back down but if she does EX SBK late to anticipate this you get hit I did this because if I got hit I usually got only 1 hit but that’s also very time dependent and her EX SBK activation so it’s abit like most of hakan’s cross up I guess.

Stuffing EX SBK attempt (new):
Also, lately I been using post slide-press, whiff Hp then try do cross up (jump over) like usual but use lk. if she mash EX SBK it usually gets stuff but on some occasion it gets hit (but only 1 hit). If she mashes 1k EX kicks it will whiff. She can anti air you with Hk and Hp. Also if she learns how to handle this she can just crouch and your lk will whiff on your landing she can grab you (maybe the throw is still in time for being techable, haven’t tested it)

Baiting EX SBK (unsafe):
post slide press just walk towards her and jump over as she gets up the EX sbk will whiff entirely if she does EX SBK early.

Baiting EX SBK (safer):
post slide press walk towards her like you want to do the unsafe ver then jump back as she wakes up input in instant overhead jump back mk if she tries to poke you with :hk: or :hp: she will get countered.

My biggest problem is with chun who loves to do the overhead :df: :hk: then mix up w normal throw or she mashes EX 1k kicks, usually they pair that w U2 so they can combo it right off.

Hope that helps :razzy:


#9

DF+RH is an air-based attack you can see coming from a mile away. U2 is perfect for catching it and discouraging it all-together. Also, if your Chun opponent is also using U2, it would be easier to get away to full screen and oil. U1 can punish a full-screen oil but if she doesn’t have U1 then there isn’t much she can do about it.


#10

just want to add, to really go head to head with chun-li, you really need to learn the reaction against her hazanshu (overhead flip kick).
if you can not counter this move with a focus attack/cancel on reaction for 80%+ or 100% stand block, then you will lose likely to players abusing the choices/setups.

so yes, keep playing more chun-li players and hit the lab now and then to get use to her hazanshu.


#11

Definitely. Then if you like to use U1 in this matchup, you can take it to the next level and do focus cancel dash >U1. But that will take some practice, only ever managed it once.


#12

had a lengthy battle on arcade with one of the best ibuki in aus (clakeyD’s level), ended up like 8-2 his way :frowning:
this is first time he fought a proper hakan, and i told him about uncrouchable a few games into our matchs.
the 2 wins (mostly due to uncrouchable dive surprises) did make him think twice about the low tier oil moster :slight_smile:

the battle ended up being a patient & footsie & DONT JUMP game.
besides the vortex on knockdown, what gets me is her agile normals and dmg chipping kicks.
he keeps his mid-distance footsie so its so hard to do anything at the range, also OS c.mp > neck.breaker (ibuki sliding)… = cant oil cant jump cant get in ><.

any tips on what good normals to use against her?

on second thot of her footsie pressure, what i should have done is on my oil chances, i should DNC to get in and burn the bar.
i think this could’ve got me more chances to win.


#13

Ibuki is a tough matchup for me too. The key is to have a good defense meaning that you have to block correctly from her cross-up dagger . However, once she is knocked down just bait out her ex-upper kick and prepare to focus her dagger and to crumple her. If she does not have a bar. it is just free jumping. Sometimes it gets trade when she tries to up kick against j.mk.


#14

I think oiled hakan beats ibuki, but its just getting the oil that’s the problem. Use cr.rh as a counterpoke footsie tool to get the knockdown and some oil. Sometimes it might even be worth just doing a blood trade because when oiled her kunai mixup game doesn’t really work on hakan, so use this to your advantage.


#15

after talking to another ibuki user, it seems that ppl usually do [ Focus Dash FORWARD ] on her wake up kunai setup to escape as below:

[ ibuki sliding > jump/high jump forward > air.dagger/j.lk > land & combo ]
-if ibuki didnt do dagger(kunai) in the air then any jump.normals will wiff and land behind

/or
[ Tsumuji knockdown > jump.dagger/j.lk > land combo ]
-Tsumuji (backward fireball kick input).

/or
[ c.HK/Forward throw > walk back alittle > j.dagger / j.lk > land combo ]

/or

[ ibuki sliding > walk forward one tiny step > air.dagger (FRONT) / j.lk (Cross-up) > land & combo ]

solution in general:
(1) air.daggers = Focus (dagger) Dash FORWARD (dash towards where ibuki jumps)

(2) j.lk/j.mk (cross-up) = Block & ex.rocket /or Hakan sliding to escape?

this do u mean using FDNC?


#16

also reading up Airs Ryu vs ibuki strat help you understand ibuki better.


#17

Yeah, you can focus her kunai and hit her before she can hit you, basically she’s falling right into your hands, as long as you’re sharp. Nullifies her kunai game completely, and add to the fact her footsies are weaker than Hakans, Oiled Hakan runs a train on her.


#18

i had another lengthy match vs ibuki with one of ex.ibuki user.
Although it was more of a practice experimental matchs, i also picked U1 to exp.
But lets just say its pretty one-sided favor for her :frowning:

after a few games, he ended up just doing [ walk forward s.lp > s.lp > s.lp > s.mk > combo ] repeatitively alot.
With this on top of all her footsie games inc c.mp OS sliding, this s.lp loop is really BS for her to come at you and shuts down pretty much all Hakans options.
Come to think of it i actually used this alot with my Sakura vs Newegers Hakan before as well lol ><

With having no U2, ibuki did got in with few vortex a few times with my Ultra ready.
i can say ibuki win most of the dmg on footsie games.
So even if i had U2 equipped i dont think the score would change much.

Also i tried FDC the votex dagger… its hard! there are few instances that Hakan FDC the dagger but before i could finish my dash ibuki already landed and c.lk or sliding me again.
I need more testing on this.

its really hard. need more hakan love.


#19

ya, hard to tell if they want to poke, grab, or dp when they just walk in on your wake up. Just have to guess right that’s the part where, I think, you can’t do with any technical skill, just have to read mind and anticipate the correct move.

Carry on the love for Hakan Yakult! I can’t play online anymore seriously I freakin hate TPG now and I can’t switch to another ISP…


#20

Are you sure her footsies are worse than Hakan? It’s odd because I have a lot of trouble with Ibuki’s standing jab, especially when dry. I swear jab links to everything for Ibuki and also ticks for throws. Is there anything that you know to counter this?