Hawk Dive Shenanigans!

t-hawk

#1

I need opinions from some players better than myself on this…
It seems that neutral jump->dive has downright mystical properties. It stuffs, supers, and even ultras… has a bizzare hitbox and deals healthy damage, all while granting hawk insane mobility for a grappler.

1.If you condition your opponent to AA when you forward or neutral jump, then you can n.jump wait for them to aa, then late dive, depending on your timing you can either stuff their AA, OR land just behind them or in front of them, giving you a free spd when they descend from their whiffed AA. Then when they wait for the dive to aa/block, you can change the spacing/dont dive. Its like his nuetral jump is a mixup all by itself.

2.It punishes every fireball as far as I can tell, with little to no risk. Only exception I’ve seen so far: An akuma player shakunetsu’d, I hawk dived, and he focus cancelled. There is no way in hell it was worth the 2 units of meter, BUT IT WAS VERY IMPRESSIVE!

  1. you can use it with condor spire to play distance games, causing your opponent to stop short and block or AA too early, when they dont need to - this is usually a free jab-spd.

Is neutral jump to dive really this good? Am I missing something here? IS it just that people arent used to it yet? I know its unsafe on block, but you can easily wait and use it on reaction.


#2

Sounds promising. But you forgot the easiest way to stop this entire thing is simply,

Walk forward.

Also, you can’t punish lp Sonic Boom or Max Out with Dive without some serious yomi.

Condor Spire shouldn’t be used at all unless it’s EX Version, or you need to catch up after a heavy Typhoon. It’s just way too easy to hit. EX Condor Spire whiff 720 is going to hurt fireballers. It works very well as I’ve done it too many times to Sagat and Ryu so far.

Oh, and Gouken laughs at your Neutral jump shenanigans as he juggles you into the corner.


#3

Good point about gouken… havent come across any good goukens in super yet… that will likely change when the game isnt so hard to find.
I Dont think condor spire is THAT bad. You have to be careful with it, but its at the very least a good way to build meter and close distance. Are you maybe confusing it with tomahawk? Cuz I dont think tomahawk should ever be used without ex outside of combos unless you have a perfect AA shot.


#4

Spire is a great way to build meter and imo it should be used instead of dash for the most part. Juri is the same as Goken because the up angled fireball neutralizes the dive. Also alot of people can ultra you off 1 blocked dive. Picture a blocked cannon spike from cammy thats how T-hawk is after a blocked dive so you might be able to spam it vs scrubs but everyone will figure out how to punish that shit in a few days.

Using it as a cross up is great. It makes peoples heads explode the first time they have that done to them. Also if you jump and then dive after a HP command grab you can get into 50/50 range before they can get up i think.


#5

Yeah, Im not talking about spamming it… spamming dive is asking to eat an aa, or like you said an ultra. I’m talking about careful use as part of a larger strategy. Didnt know it could cross up. Will have to try that!


#6

I just won a tourney today using T Hawk, I was trying different things like dive so that I end up right in front to set up for a 360. I even tried whiff dive into ultra, but that didn’t work out so well. The final was against a Gief (who’s my main from vanilla), that match was pretty tough, but I used standing rh timed right to stuff a lot of things. Also I’m glad the dive stuffs lariat lol


#7

I think using Hawk Dive as a crossup is really good, especially in the corner where it’s even harder to read. It’s not too hard to do either.

I don’t know why, but I’m having trouble landing in front of them and doing a spd. My brother can do it, but I just end of eating something cause of the recovery. Are you supposed to cancel the recovery or am I doing it too high?


#8

I make this video to see Condor Dive’s Cross Up properties.
It’s very handy and really usefull if you combine it with a Light Punch.
Since we all know that ONLY with Jumping Light Punch T.Hawk can cancel it with a Condor Dive.
The most important that you can see in this video is the Light Punch+Condor Dive Cross up.
While Light Punch hit the opponent in Block Condor Dive do a Cross Up hit.
See and Discuss.I will be happy to discuss that.

[media=youtube]StGrRPUCano[/media]


#9

I am so glad to hear I’m not crazy!

When you do it depends on distance. You have to eyeball it. and decide how late to dive each time.
It doesnt work if you dont have them blocking. if they are blocking whenever you hawk dive and you land IN FRONT OF THEM without hitting them. then you can ultra1/360p before they have time to do anything.
If you can get them to AA BEFORE you dive , thats better, because then when you dive you land first, and when they come down from their AA you can destroy them with ultra1/360p.

Tira, that is a wonderfully instructive video! The light punch blocked->condor dive crossup will likely induce some serious WTF in your opponent.


#10

Thanx man.Let’s hope we (T.Hawk fan and players) be able to do something after all.
While Dive is SO unsafe, in the end it appears to have some usefull things.
I want to add also something.
Don’t try EVER to beat Abel’s U2 with T.Hawk’s U1.
He will alwasy grab T.Hawk.
It happens yesterday when i played with a friend of mine.


#11

I’ve been messing a lot with j.jab to cross dive and it didn’t seem too useful because I think a cross up splash or j.HP is a better option because if you don’t hit with the dive you’re going to get seriously punished or push them a far ways out whereas the other options still puts your opponent in a mix up situation and it’s a lot safer for t. hawk. one thing I do think worth messing around with though is instant j.jab to dive. it only hits standing opponents but it hits instantly and you can delay the dive enough that it crosses up. it’s less time for your opponent to react.


#12

Since this is Hawk Dive shenanigans.

If you see Abel’s U2. Do Hawk dive. Armor break.

Anyway, j.lp cancel to dive makes a loop mixup. j.lp crossup dive? j.lp no cancel lp spd? j.lp whiff lp spd? j.lp hawk dive lp spire 720?

THE MADNESS.


#13

Hmmm, hawk dive just gets more and more interesting… the amount of things it stuffs is mindboggling. Im pretty sure I stuffed sagats super-combo earlier.


#14

Yeah, us in the Abel forums are guessing its invincible to throws like Tornada Throws are, but no one tested it yet.


#15

You know how Zangief could beat scrubs by doing SPD, fist, SPD?
Hawk can beat scrubs by doing Typhoon, Dive, Typhoon. 0_0 You have to place it carefully, but you can do the dive just short of the opponent so you’re in range for the grab again.


#16

This is true, and thats part of what some of the people in this thread are talking about but only as part of a larger hawk dive mixup.
If you just want to pound scrubs, Typhoon->spiral->typhoon works better IMO


#17

Why couldn’t they have given Hawk a EX Dive? Make it go through projectiles, amazing pritority and safe on block.


#18

I’m guessing they didn’t want people slamming all 6 buttons simultaneously, since that’s probably what it would require. It’d be like giving Balrog (or as I now call him, 50 Cent) an EX turnaround punch, disregarding the fact that you’d be incapable of attacking for that period. It’s still not an awful move; you just have to be careful how you use it.


#19

Well he does have an EX Dive, you just have to use it after EX Tomahawk Buster.

Dive is so good for me right now. It’s like there’s an active hitbox… everywhere.


#20

Smartass you knew what I meant :razzy:

Thing about HD is it can be beat/poked out by a few normals. He is gonna have a hard time on players with a good runaway and zone game. EX HD may have helped cut down on that. HD is ‘good’, but EX HD could have been amazing.