Any idea on what lp xx b+mp xx mk is? (Demon Kicker)
so how does this work? any move that has +# on block is safe? and any move that has -# on block is unsafe? or does it depend on the number? which of hei’s moves are safe? i never did understand frame data :shake:
You just generally go in the lab, and test stuff to gain better knowledge of the character. The Frama Data stuff is just there to help people out.
Startup=How fast the move comes in frames per sec
Active=How long a move last once the hitbox appears
Recovery= How much long until your character freely move
Invincible Frame= When your character doesn’t have a point in their body that they be hurt from
Advantage on Hit= How many frames you are free to do action before you oppotent. It can be Negative, which is the opposite. Where your oppotent can act before you can.
Advantage on block= Same thing, but on Block.
Usually when it’s + or positive. It’s safe because you are free to do a action before you oppotent can.
However -1 to 0 is also safe before it’s impossible for the oppotent to punish that quickly.
Sometime there is push back in moves that prevent you from being punished by DPs, or Jabs.
Most of this could really be answer by going to training mode, and recoding IF DPs or Jabs can punish Hehaichi.
You don’t have to be honest, I mean there is a lot of players out there that don’t know their frame data. It just helps, and give you better knowledge of what’s safe. However, you can easily go into training stage and figure out how safe Heihachi actually is without using a guide.
thanks man, appreciate it
Cheers for this. How are you guys using Raijin Stance? Does it push you back far enough to be a safe(ish) poke? Considering they all do the same damage, which version is best here?
I don’t think -1 is safe anymore against certain characters. I believe has a 1f start-up super.
Push-back on a move might leave you far enough for her to not be able to punish you. But you have to space your moves.
It’s very situational to run into a Julie player… and to have her with 2 bars… and her close enough to punish you. But just in-case
Understanding frames helps a lot. You don’t need it, sure.
But if you do understand it…
- You’ll be able to understand what is happening in a match better.
- You’ll waste less time in the lab trialling things which are impossible.
- You’ll be able to come up with combos and tactics easier
It helps a lot. But it’s not necessary.
It’s kind of like plinking, you don’t need it… but it sure helps a lot if you can do it! (and it’s not that hard to learn).
I find mp version to be good. It travels far enough to be able to cancel off C.mk at max distance. And, a shoto can not punish it.
The only things in the game that can punish -1 are Gief’s Super and Akuma’s Super. They listed the frame data in the guide incorrectly and didn’t count the 1f freeze before the Super. So for Gief and Akuma their supers are 1+0; which cannot be jumped unless jump was inputted before the freeze. Very few things in the game can punish moves that are -2 (Julia and Ibuki’s Supers are the only ones I can think of) and -3 frame moves are punishable by reversal SRK’s, Gief’s EX-RBG and many 3f normals (into chain or link combo.)
Chun’s hazanshu is +/-0 on block. If you do a reversal Super with Gief or Akuma and the Chun player constantly holds up while hazanshu is being blocked she will not get grabbed after the freeze, since the input for up occured same frame as the freeze and the following frame she is in pre-jump frames (ungrabbable). Her lk lightning legs are -1 on block, which can be punished by Gief/Akuma’s super because the input for jump cannot happen simultaneous to the reversal Super due to her being in recovery. Holding up during the freeze will not make any difference, as the Super is active on frame 0 and no inputs will be registered for Chun.
This is different from non-grab Supers, where they freeze frame and startup have to be combined. So, for Julia, the guide lists her Super as 1f. It is actually 1+1 frames (2 frames). Tested on CHun’s lk Legs (-1) and hk legs (-2). If Chun player does lk.legs and holds back, Julia’s reversal timed Super will be blocked. If Chun player does hk.legs and holds back Julia’s reversal timed Super will hit.
This is a bit nerd overkill but this is because on lk.legs Chun is -1, so as soon as lk legs finishes blockstun:
FRAME 1: Julia inputs reversal super and freeze occurs; Chun is in recovery and vulnerable but holding back for block
FRAME 2: Julia’s Super starts; Chun’s back input reads block since she is out of recovery and Julia’s super is blocked.
Thanks man. Was unaware of that.
B+LP (Hammer Punch) is listed as special cancellable, yet i can’t cancel it with any. Is it me being lame, or frame data being off?
What really? Special cancellable?
Nah, it isn’t. I’m not 100%
But there’s no way in hell that an overhead with crush as slip abilities is special cancellable. That would be the most god tier broken thing ever.
It says his cr. hp ‘forces standing on hit’ and is +6 on hit. I’m not the best with frame data, but could that mean you can 2 frame link into st. Lp, and then do some sort of reset off that, like grab them/ bait into counter? not really sure.
Frame wise, yes, but you also have to consider the range at which the cr.hp pushes the opponent back. Your opponent might not be in range of anything fast enough that will link. Also, cr.fp is scary to use on grounded opponents due to its recovery time, so it might not be the most practical thing either.
You have a point. Hmm, I’ll have to take it to the lab and see what I get. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst, as I always say.
EDIT: It would seem that cr. hp’s effect of forcing a stand isn’t usable in juggles. It just knocks them away. Further study is needed.