Heihachi's Counter Compendium

heihachi

#1

Along with Hammer Punch, Heaven’s Wrath is Heihachi’s defining move in SFxT. Used judiciously, it can be a mainstay of his game. Used foolishly, you’ll spend more time on your back than a two-bit hooker.

I’d like your opinions regarding the best times to counter against each character. I’ll keep everything spoiler tagged for brevity/convenience.

SF Cast:

Abel

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Akuma][/details]

Balrog

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Blanka][/details]

Cammy

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Chun Li][/details]

Cody

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Dhalsim]
[LIST]
[*]“random” counters tend to work well, especially at the edge of his cr.hp range. Has the additional bonus of closing the gap if he hits high.
[/LIST]
[/details]

Dudley

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Elena][/details]

Guile

Spoiler

[LIST]
[]Counter will catch flash kicks on Guile’s wakeup. Throw one out whenever you feel he’s desperate for a flash kick tag out as well.
[
]You can counter between the hits of his sweep, but a raw launcher will get you more damage.
[/LIST]

Guy

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Hugo]
[LIST]
[*]“You can counter Hugo’s armor clothesline ability. Like your Vega tip, I like to empty jump and hit counter on landing. This is an upper body counter so follow up with a combo. The problem with this though if you’re jumping he can air grab you, doing massive damage. Just know you can counter that ability and plan from there.” (credit: Kanokare)
[/LIST]
[/details]

Ibuki

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Juri][/details]

Ken

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=M. Bison]
[LIST]
[*]I like to empty jump into his s.mk/s.hk range and counter. This is risky and probably ill-advised, but I’ve had decent success with it. Pulling this off early in a match makes your approach that much easier due to his below-average AA.
[/LIST]
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Poison

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Rolento]
[LIST]
[*]I’ll usually counter after the first jab, especially if he’s in close.
[/LIST]
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Rufus

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Ryu]
[LIST]
[*]Look for Joudan startup after his low forward.
[/LIST]
[/details]

Sagat

Spoiler

[LIST]
[*]Once you’ve closed to a range where tiger shots become too risky, you can try to catch 'gat zoning with his gangly limbs.
[/LIST]

Sakura

Spoiler

Vega

Spoiler

[LIST]
[*]I like to empty jump into his c.mp poke range and counter. This is risky and probably ill-advised, but I’ve had decent success with it. Successfully pulling this off early in a match makes your approach that much easier (when he doesn’t have 2 bars to AA super).
[/LIST]

Zangief

Spoiler

[LIST]
[*]His jabs are +1 at best. If he’s the kind of Gief that likes to throw out several jabs in a row, counter after the first. If he’s a tick-360 kind of Gief, beware.
[/LIST]


#2

Tekken Cast:

Alisa

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Asuka][/details]

Bryan

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Bob][/details]

Heihachi

Spoiler

[LIST]
[*]After the first strike of double palm. If Hei continues with lp, it’s a true blockstring and nothing happens. If Hei goes into the overhead or low, he’ll eat a counter.
[/LIST]

Hwoarang

Spoiler

[LIST]
[*]After his mk. If he goes for the follow-up overhead, you’ve caught him. If he chains into st. hk, you can punish. You lose if he just throws out a naked mk.
[/LIST]

Jack

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Jin]
[LIST]
[]Against Jin players who like to MA/Swaying Willow in the middle of your strings, occasionally counter during your pressure to keep them honest. Hugely risky, but the payoff is equall
[
]y huge, both in dealing damage and dissuading future attempts to interrupt your pressure.
[/LIST]
[/details]

Julia

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Kazuya]
[LIST]
[*]After the standing lk (mk?) in his tekken string (Twin fang combo?). Catches all mid attempts.
[/LIST]
[/details]

King

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Kuma][/details]

Lars

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Law][/details]

Lei

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Lili][/details]

Marduk

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Michelle][/details]

Nina

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Ogre][/details]

Paul

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Raven]
[LIST]
[*]On reaction to skull smasher command normal. Will catch the high, mid, and low options.
[/LIST]
[/details]

Steve

Spoiler

Steve uses a lot of grounded pokes and pressure strings. Judiciously tossing in counters can make him hesitate, which will give Heihachi the window of opportunity he needs. You can also counter Steve’s duck on reaction in anticipation of followup pokes. Counter is also a great option if he starts weaving against your jump attacks. (credit: eDane)

Xiaoyu

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=Yoshimitsu]
[LIST]
[*]Oddly, Yoshi’s cr. lp doesn’t seem to get caught by counter, making it a risky proposition altogether. I’ll need to test this more to be sure.
[/LIST]
[/details]


#3

Heihachi’s counter is a funny thing, in that it relies so much on what a particular opponent is doing. I think proper use of his counter is exactly as you’ve outlined in a lot of the matchups (eg. Using it in the middle of tekken strings). Some general notes I would add are that counter gets much better against very grounded characters.For example:

vs. Steve
Steve uses a lot of grounded pokes and pressure strings. Judiciously tossing in counters can make him hesitate, which will give Heihachi the window of opportunity he needs. You can also counter Steve’s duck on reaction in anticipation of followup pokes. Counter is also a great option if he starts weaving against your jump attacks.

I think it’s also worth noting here how good b.:lp: is as a counter of sorts. Against bison, for example, I understand your empty jump counter option to catch his :mk:. Using empty jump b.:lp: in this situation serves the same purpose, while simultaneously being much safer. I think this is best demonstrated in the Kuma matchup, where he has all these great strings where he swings his bear arms at you. Sure, you could counter in there somewhere, but why take the risk? With b.:lp:, you beat him, often with a counter hit, if he continues the string, you get a combo if he blocks low, and you’re only at -1 if he happens to block high. In general, it works great as a footsie tool against characters that have great standing normals.


#4

Vs. Hugo
You can counter Hugo’s armor clothesline ability. Like your Vega tip, I like to empty jump and hit counter on landing. This is an upper body counter so follow up with a combo. The problem with this though if you’re jumping he can air grab you, doing massive damage. Just know you can counter that ability and plan from there.


#5

@eDane - FINALLY! It’s about damn time you got yourself an SRK account. Good general advice on Steve - I’ll add it for sure. Are there any specific visual cues we can look for to ensure the counter connects? I’m trying to think of Hunter’s Steve. Is Duck his spinning thing? And you’re absolutely right about Hei’s Hammer Punch murdering characters that rely heavily on standing attacks like Bison or Bryan When do you plan on adding all of your knowledge to the GD thread? I know there’s lots about the character I’ve learned from you; I’m sure the community at large could benefit as well.

@Kanokare - Don’t know why I didn’t add this the first time around. More than a few Hugo players love to Lariat after jump-ins. Hugo’s AA grab isn’t usually a factor until he has meter, but I hear where you’re coming from.


#6

Feel free to edit my wording and proper names for abilities lol.

Vs. Akuma
Shoryuken and Tatsu. Works great on Shoryuken wake ups.

Vs. Ryu
Ex.Shoryuken. Risky if he does a normal Shoryuken you’ll get hit. Some like to Ex.Shoryuken and tag cancel on wake up with 2 meters.

Vs. Ken
Shoryuken! Works on all levels unlike Ryu. Great on wake up DPers.
Tatsu (Startup only). If you stand next to Ken and he does Tatsu, it’ll get countered. Works on Ex as well. If he’s already flying after the start frames, it won’t work.

Vs. Cammy
Cannon Spike. Great on CS wake ups trying to tag out
Spiral Arrow (close range). If they do SA next to you you’ll be safe. Doesn’t seem to work on max range SA. Either way if they do CS or SA on wake up and you’re next to them, you’ll counter.

Vs. Zangief
Lariat and Green Hand. Lots of Zangief love to Lariat on wake up. Might work on Lariat wake ups if you can empty jump fast enough. Risky if the Zangief prefers to pile drive. Do not attempt if super meter is ready.

Vs. Julia
Swift Steps. Works on both that tosses out a punch. The empty Swift Step might work if they go for a rush combo, just hope it wasn’t a bait to counter or they might follow up.


#7

Duck in indeed his spinning thing. I find you can do it as soon as you seen him moving quickly towards you. Speaking of spinning things…

vs Julia

You can counter during her chains on reaction to her turning her back to you. I don’t know the proper name for her spinning thing either.

Hah, I thank you for implying that my knowledge is so gratuitous. I’ve been adding things when i get the chance, but a lot of my tricks are in here somewhere or other. I recently did a writeup on use of Hell Axle for tag ins, and I tossed in some tech using Meaty Raijins. I will probably write up some ambiguous crossup setups at my next opportunity.

edit: for quote foolishness


#8

This is cool, I’m working on one for Asuka atm and seeing as both their counters work the same way (except we dont get a follow combo :() was wondering if you’re willing to share info between the 2 threads so that we’d have more info overall for both characters :smiley: ?


#9

After getting some experience vs the DLC characters, it seems that there are a lot of characters with longer chains that contain gaps ripe for the countering. I’ll try to format for easy copy/pasting into the original posts.

Vs. Alisa
If you can block her overhead in her chainsaw Tekken chain, you can counter it. Hell, you know she’s gonna do it. EX counter it to mock her with your excessive meter usage. EX counter sure isn’t good for anything else. (Side project for whoever has the opportunity to test: Does EX counter give you the comboable version on low attacks?)

Vs. Bryan
He has great long range pokes that are buffered into Tekken chains. These chains have gaps where you can joyfully qcf + K. If you want a safer option, I think most of his chain options are standing attacks, so you can b.LP in lieu of counter.

Vs. Christie
I think she mixes up with her Tekken chains, and again, those chains have gaps. Disclaimer: I say “I think” because who knows what the heck Christie is doing when she gets started? Ask Vulcan Hades, I guess. He might know.

Vs. Dudley
A fun character for countering. You can throw them out on reaction to machine gun blows, ducks, and that move where he sways backwards and follows up with an attack. Countering his dps may be possible if they are grounded on the first few active frames.

Vs. Jack X
There is a counterable gap between the 2nd and 3rd hit of his cl. MP > MP > MP > HP chain. Beware him stopping at the second hit to bait you. You can also counter his Gigaton Punch, but I wouldn’t recommend it. He can cancel it, and if he can hit you with Gigaton Punch, he can also hit you with his seismo, which you can’t counter.

Vs. Lars
His sparkly electric hands combo attacks have deliciously counter-friendly gaps.

I’m sure there are lots more delightfully fulfilling counter opportunities nestled in the bosom of this recent DLC, but these are all I have at hand right now. I welcome all you Heihachis to chime in on whatever I may have missed.