Help against E.Honda

juri

#1

This seems to be my worst match up ( i also hate M.Bison). I cannot punish the headbutt move and do not know how to punish it. Can anybody offer some advice on this match up?


"Mmm... You look like you're in good shape": Juri Q&A and General Discussion Thread
A Master Class in Juri Han: Learn to fight like me and you'll realize how boring everything else is
A Master Class in Juri Han: Learn to fight like me and you'll realize how boring everything else is
#2

Honda is one of (if not the) Juri’s hardest m/u’s.

a) Counterpick with Chun, Guile, or Dhalsim if you know how to use those characters.

b) Be really patient. Throw a purple maze of fuhajins and mix it up with pokes and movement. Make it hard for him to get near.

Like so

Searching for “SF4 [character A vs character B]” on Youtube never hurts, either.

c) For starting out/low level, stuff like this is fine I suppose.

Be aware of what you can punish and what can’t be (most headbutts :crybaby: ) When you (and your opposition) become more experienced though, Honda’s are less likely to throw out easily stuffable headbutts.

2:25

d) Do use the matchup thread. Some info may be outdated, so do post there and ask if you are unsure.


#3

another way to punish edmund


#4

I still don’t think this MU is THAT bad for Juri. Like really as long as Juri stays on her feet most of the time…it’s really not bad.


#5

I don’t think it’s that bad, you just have to stay closer in this matchup than others becuause otherwise you can’t anti air j.mp consistently. Also mk fireball is the main one to use, since his headbut goes clean over the low one.
In a tournament I’ll go Chun in the blink of an eye, though, since that matchup is a lot better.


#6

It is actually pretty bad. Can you actually imagine how to open him up if you’re not having a lifelead ?
I mean you can obviously punish all of his retarded headbuttattempts easily if you stay on your feet but what about a Honda that is actually good ? You can counter his online tactics but you can’t counter solid play as easy as derpy fullscreen headbutt attempts. He can also EX Headbutt your store when you’re close if you get predictable with fireballs which will happen at some point if you end up creating a maze of purple plasma.
Also you can’t antiair him like he did in that video. If he’s not competely retarded he will also make good use of his j.MP. YES you can antiair it but depending on range and timing it has the ability to stuff all of Juris antiairs and it’s not a rare occurence either so theres basically no reason to not take the risk a few times. The payoff could be that he get’s the lifelead and once he starts turtling you can consider yourself fucked.
But yeah 3-7 matchups aren’t that bad :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Personally I would never bother to play against this character with Juri. I rather go with Cammy or Ibuki since he is free on wakeup


#7

ok just drop your stick and give up


#8

You don’t open up a Honda. You sit back and throw fireballs until his patience wears thin. Even if you lose the round, the lameness still hurts him. When you have FSE activated, approach cautiously and pause strings to bait reversals. Like someone said earlier, throw lk.Fuhajins seldomly 'cause Honda Headbutt goes right over them. And mess up Honda’s charge as often as you can. – This is how I won against Evil Rahsaan anyways at a Tampa tournament a couple months back >.>

I too probably won’t pick Juri for this matchup – as I would probably pick Honda against Juri =P It’s not unwinable, probably 4-6 in Honda’s favor. Also, My Honda does well against Ibuki >.> Cammy counterpick? -> Ibuki~

#FuckTheBullshit


#9

I am sorry for not sharing the same opinion as you do


#10

It’s not about having different opinions, your post basically oozes “omg there’s nothing you can do, unwinnable”, and that kind of mentality is just going to hurt yourself.


#11

I never said it’s unwinnable or close to the Thawk Blanka matchup. I just think that “not that bad” is exaggerated and I merely pointed out why it’s bad. Being too much of a pessimist is obviously bad but why would you lie to yourself and be all like “IT’S WINNABLE” ? I think on a competetive level this will hurt you alot more than being aware of the fact that you only have limited options in matchup xy.

You basically expect the Honda player to be an idiot. His patience won’t wear thin if he wants to win and has a lifelead and I think it will be more frustrating for you if you see that it won’t work. I don’t know about FSE in this matchup other than with 2 bars it’s an “ok” punish for HP headbutts with further reset / mixup potential if you have 4 bars and even if you block a reversal during FSE you still can’t punish him.

Nice to know that your Honda does well against Ibuki :stuck_out_tongue: I do well with Ibuki or Cammy against Honda. I just feel comfortable like in the Juri - Bison matchup. I would pick Juri anytime over Cammy or Ibuki against Bison Balrog or Cammy since I am used to the matchup. The same thing could basically apply to the Hondamatchup but I think that Juri - Honda is far worse than Juri - Cammy/Bison/Rog (my worst matchup :P).

In the end it’s all down to personal preference anyway so if you feel comfortable against Honda with Juri then there is no need to counterpick but you should be aware that a lamefest where you have limited options awaits you.


#12

I believe the honda matchup is slightly in Juri’s favor. It’s a lame fest but that’s what I would prefer over vortex. You need to be smart with your fireballs and spacing is very important for anti-airs. Throw low fireballs only when he walks forward. Know your ranges when throwing mk/rh fireballs.

Honda’s problem is that he has no b.s. hard-to-blockables. Patience will win you this match and I’m afraid most Juri’s don’t have the patience. That’s probably why most feel that the matchup is bad.


#13

Surprisingly, most hondas dont perform cmd grabs, rather instead they use hand combos. I only seeing this matchup beeing HORRIBLE going up against a Honda thats NOT trying to make risky reads with headbutt. other than that, juri should work like poison slowly bringing down his health.


#14

lame it out. only throw full screen mk fireballs. never low or high ones. doesn’t matter if they hit or not. if you are too close the Honda will punish the recovery of your fireball charge/hold, be patient make him come to you, anti-air with far standing hp or cr. hp.
oh and always bet on U2 and practice punishing headbutt attempts with raw ultra 2.
like this:


#15

I think it’s in Juri’s favor;

_Neutral Jump HK at max range of mp.doskoi shutdown Honda.
_Mid fuhajin is a spam fest, pushing Honda into corner, avoiding every doskoi, punishing his Oicho whiff.
_Best Anti air will be jump MP, do not try to face his j.MP on the ground. Use j.mp or teleport to control space. for damages, cr.HP or jb.HK.
_U2 is perfect for stuffing doskoi with reflex, and OS when jumping on Honda with safe jump.
_When honda breaks his charge, you can go forward and even jump on him with max range j.hk. He can’t nj.hp, nor backjump hp. He can stand HP, but if you delay your jump with a dive, you hit him and this offers a follow up with EX senpusha.
_cr.MK and st.LK outrange Honda’s cr.LP. You can poke with them when Honda breaks his charge, and stay aware for jumps.
_You can punish hp.doskoi with lk.senpusha, so when you have 2 meters, go for LK.senpusha FADC cl.MP xx HK.senpusha. Or MK.super !
_Cross ups breaks the 2 charges. Your overhead breaks also one. When you score a KD with senpusha, you can dash under and come over with dive kick or overhead, to be sure Honda doesn’t have doskoi.
_When the opponent goes for but slam’s fest, try to focus, or simplier, teleport. Think dat if he uses doskoi, you take damage, but is “vortex” is over. Take care of his rear charge (butt slam cross up or not).
_His cr.LP is 4, his cr.LK is 5. for gor good frametraps. If you score a knockdown when Honda doesn’t have meter, use your best frametraps to deal great damages, and take the life lead.
_Fuzzy guard with instant j.HP works. With a corner throw, you’re godlike on him.
_When he performs handslaps FADC on block, he has no response against your backdash (unless you’re cornered).
_You can punish nj.HP with st.HK, dash 2mp or dash teleport. Note that’s easier that it seems (go training mode, 10 minutes wisely spent)

Things you can’t do against him :

_You can’t do the run without the life lead.
_Jump in when too close (nj.HP) or when he gets charge.
_Change your playstyle too much when you lose lifelead. You need to cheap damage even if he leads, because the FIRST THING Honda wants is you rushing for him. Be smart and discreet when you search for close fight.
_Use fireballs at range of j.LP. His range is HUGE. More generally, stop using/spamming fireballs when honda breaks his charge, and go for normal moves instead.
_Frame traps when he has his charge and meter. Better go for safe jump with block string and go away, than try to open guard and take EX.doskoi into bad position.
_Stay at maximum distance. It’s a comfort zone for Honda where he can build meter with whiffed Oicho. go ahead and push.

Against Honda, just sacrifice all the fun in this game, to get something really tight. Just stick on gameplan, relax if you throw a round, find how this honda find a jump in, and destroy all his hopes of coming close. That’s a boring but easy match-up. Don’t be ballzy, do not try to be a hero. If you really want to, you can try with ultra 1, but I’m not responsible !


#16

No, Juri can chip away at Honda if she’s zoning correctly. FSE I only use for damage 'cause Ultra 2 damage is complete ass.

Even still, in a tournament situation, I’d probably use Chun against Honda unless my Chun gets blown the fuck up -_-;


#17

Honda doesn’t relies on headbutts + he can EX headbutt you at that range.
Yes mid fuhajin is her best tool in this matchup no doubt. Anyway she has to store them. If used together with LK fireballs to bait the headbutts she also creates an opening where honda can EX Headbutt the store. Also jumping over fireballs isn’t that hard. MK fuhajin doesn’t travel fullscreen and who cares if honda gets 50 damage if it reaches him at all. j.MP is also her best antair but then again if he honda isn’t completely retarded it get’s pretty tough. Stil viable though. U2 is just no. You can punish HP headbutts on block with FSE > LK wheel FADC. But then again who the hell does random fullscreen headbutts ? Unless he’s a scrub or the legendary 4th I doubt it will happen alot / you can’t rely on it. Honda has no reason to stop his charge unless he’s pressuring you or you have unexpectedly a lifelead. If anything of these 2 situations happen he’s doing something wrong.
Also implying you can play footsies with Honda. He doesn’t care about far.LK and cr.MK has 16 frames recovery and is -5 on block.

You can’t punish HP headbutt with raw senpusha since only the 2nd hit connects which makes an FADC a 1 frame link if it’s FADCable at all. It works after FSE activation since it moves her forward. Yes crossups break the charge but he can still autocorrect EX Headbutt these crossup attempts. Also when are you in a position to do that anyway ? Then again if the opponent goes for a buttslam fest and you just focus and he really does the Headbutt you end up losing health. Depending on the situation it can be a keymoment and he can get the momentum of 1 single Headbutt (e.g. getting a lifelead).

When you score a knockdown when Honda doesn’t have meter… When should that happen ? On the other side you have only 1 chance to score a counterhit and even then you will most likely combo into store. You can obviously combo into Senpusha too but I’d like to see that happening first. Theres no need to be afraid by Juri unless she corners you. The fuzzyguard is good to land the finalblow but while having EX Meter I don’t see a scenario where he would have to block a safejump in the first place. I didn’t think of the backdash after hands FADC though, I guess it’s good and you can obviously dash and antiair his neutraljumps on reaction. It’s not like you don’t have time to react to this with a 23 frame antiair.

Also of course you can’t run away without having a lifelead and if you don’t and he is patient you will lose. In german I’d say “und da liegt der hund begraben” You can’t chip him to death. He can neutraljump focus absorb or simply block them and you have only 99 seconds to win the match. If you think you can chip him…oh well

The thing is I don’t see how Juri can have an advantage when she doesn’t have a lifelead. How can she open up Honda ? There aren’t even 50/50 cornersetups vs him, her frametraps are weak and she can’t confirm into any damaging combo unless with a fireball. If you mess up your store and it whiffs even then he will be able to punish it. You have to be completely on point. I don’t think it’s impossible to win and the stuff you mentioned is viable at some point but it’s just not in her favor. I don’t see it.

Well good luck with chipping away a 1050HP character who has a lifelead and pretty decent defensive options.
This thread is a joke and just hypocrisy at it’s best. I maybe sound even salty but that her worst matchup of all times suddenly is in her favor just for the lulz is ridiculous.

“It’s in Juris favor/ not that bad / actually good but we will counterpick the second the opponent chooses Honda”

I am out.


#18

Juri can zone Honda while building meter quickly… you just have to practice zoning in order to play him properly… Honda is an easy match up for Juri… there’s no need to switch for other characters…

take advantage of zoning him while building meter… then use your meters to deal massive damage against his high HP.

abuse mid fireballs to discourage him using headbutts… his H/EX headbutt can be punished with super.


#19

My spidey sense is tingling. I sense someone has activated their full troll mode.


#20

Pretty much this


and this