Help me become a better player

ken

#1

Hi everyone!:smile:

I’m a total noob at Third Strike(been playing for about a week and a half) and would really apreciate if you could help me out some. First let me say that my SF experiences are minimal. I have played the original SF2 and Alpha 3 on Kailera, but that’s pretty much it. Also for now I play on keyboard but I’m going to buy a controller in the near future, so keep that in mind… Any advice on which I should buy btw? (No sticks, can’t use em)

I have some questions I would rally appreciate if someone could answer.

  1. In match videos very often people don’t go as close as possible to their opponent when he is waking up. Instead they keep some distance even when playing Shoto against shoto. Why is that? I like to get in close use throw or use c.mk and link it to dp, or simply do short times three and try to hit SA3.

  2. IF I do short times three on wakeup is it possible for someone to grab me or superart me if i time it correctly?

  3. When someone tries to air cross me up and I run under them which attack is best to use to ensure damage?

  4. If someone jumps into me and then tries to grab me, but instead of grabbing I do short kick, will i come out on top mostly or is it better to always grab when someone jumps over or into u?

  5. I’m having problems punishing Chun Lis SA2. The last kick pushes me far away from her and I can’t connect with my C.mk. Should I try to parry the last kick or simply do SA3 directly after her last kick?

  6. When I play against this guy online vs Makoto he does the grab then puts me down and slaps the shit out of me and then links into his stun combo. After that the round is basicly over. Usually the way he sets himself up for this is by using his lightning dash attack, or whatever its called and then either does c.short and the attack again or the grab. Whichever way I’m screwed. What can I do to not get myself in either of those situations?

  7. Against Akuma he always gets me in the corner and throws air fireballs at me and mixes it with grabs and hurricane kicks. I always end up in the corner no matter how I play. And I hate being in the corner like a little biatch getting dominated… What can I do?

  8. When someone misses their DP or other anti air attack I get a free shot to punish him but many times I screw it up by hitting too soon and instead they fly “out of my grip” and I end up giving minimal damage. I noticed that when I use S.Mp many times my opponent manage to grab me or dp if i wait too long, but if I don’t they “fly out of my grip”. Should I use another attack then the middle punch, fierce punch SA3 combo? Or do I just need to get the timing down?

  9. What are good ways to set up for UOH into SA3? Also which kick button should i use to link it and when should i start doing the motion?

  10. How do i do double dp in midscreen? I’ve seen em done in matches but i never seem to get one of. I read I’m suppose to Kara and then do the dp. Which is the easiest way to kara and how do i do it?

  11. What is a good way to set up for an air crossup?

  12. I’m having trouble hit confirming. Should I for instance do c.mk then qct qcf and then release the button or should i do qcf qcf and then hit the button again? Also what is the easiest way to hit confirm, meaning which attack gives me the longest time to see if it hit?

That’s enough questions for one post I think.:smile: I hope I didn’t go on for too long and that someone could help me out.

P.s I know everyone uses Ken but I have used him ever since Sf2 and also in Alpha3 where he’s not exactly top tier. So now that he’s actually good it would be a shame not to use him no?:wonder:


#2

Sometimes apporaching the opponent on wake up actually puts you at a disadvatage. At begginer level there’s nothing more frustrating thatn good wake moves IMO. Alot of characters have attacks that have a high enough frame and priority advantage to get you out of thier face on wake up. (the most famous (but not nessicerily the best) the EX srk.

What you do about this depends on your situation. If you want to keep the offense going, I usually try to bait out a wake up attack and parry or block. This just comes when learning to play mind games.

Don’t think so unless the super has invincible startup. Ken has a great c lk with very many ways to force the enemy on defense.

clk x2 ,(enemy blocks) dash in, MIX UP TIME.

There isn’t one. But your chances of landing an attack are high becuase that’s a confusing situation to be in for most people.

If the jump in is empty, then they’re most likely expecting an anti-air so they can parry and counter-attack. Trying to grab them when they land definatly wouldn’t hurt. The worst that could happen is that you tech his throw.

Yes, on block, ALWAYS parry the last kick. and why simply Sa3? where’s the fun in that? HP, mp srk, SA3 is so much better. :wgrin:

Basically, keep that bitch away from you and don’t let her land that throw. She sets up some pretty crazy things with it. Try jumping away, using safe pokes, etc.

My anti-akuma game involves forcing him on defense before he forces you on defense. Knock him down and bait out a wake-up attack. After that: play time. However, if he manages to force you on defense, try dashing under him when he tries to jump in with a air-fireball. It’ll put you at the advantage. But BE PATIENT. There’s no such thing as a perfect offense, all you need to do is land a few hits on Akuma to turn the match around. Build up your defense game and punish him THE FIRST TIME he makes a mistake.

Off of a c lk. Cancel the c lk in it’s first few frames into a lp srk.

Hitconfirming is something you have to learn on your own. I personally look for the hitsparks and sound. With ken I think his c. mp causes longer hitstun
IIRC.


#3

hope that helps.


#4

For having played less than two weeks you’ve sure picked up on a lot of things already. I definitely encourage you to retire that keyboard for a pad or stick–and don’t rule out a stick just yet. I used a pad for over 15 years before I got a stick and have never gone back.

As far as gameplay, you say your SF experience is minimal, so maybe just go in training mode (after you get your pad) until you can do the fundamentals like clockwork from both sides. Also, play against real people as often as you can and watch match videos.

Oh, and the execution I use for kara srk is f,d+mk,df+lp (you can also use hk instead of mk). In training mode, pick Yun as the opponent and try to land lp srk > kara lp srk in the corner. If the second one hits, you know you did it correctly.


#5

For ken the easiest hit confirm, is close.mp x close.hp xx qcf+p xx SA3.


#6

Yo Mike C and Tigerboi. Thx a lot mates! That really helped my game. :slight_smile:

Thats some good advice there “thought”. Unfortunately I don’t have training mode yet as I have only played online, but the game’s in the mail. I’m gonna have to dig out my old dreamcast to be able to play it. The PS2 version isn’t realesed in Sweden. Is it a huge difference between Dreamcast and Ps2?


#7

Deepthoughts: I mentioned earlier: DO NOT DO d+mk,df+lp for karasrk, it’s not necessary. Just do the full dp motion before you land and HK,LP when your feet hit the ground.

TonyMontana:
When you succesfully evaded a crossup you should be able to punish them with MP,HP (X Hado) XX SA3 when they land, be sure to hitconfirm it though, since the results may vary from time to time.

“clk x2 ,(enemy blocks) dash in, MIX UP TIME.” this works a few times because the idea is actually retarded and noone expects you to do something that stupid, once your opponent catches on you’ll only be eating MPs.

Akumas tend to like to divekick if they want to push you in the corner, dealing with divekicks is possibly the most annoying thing found in a fighting game. If you can predict his divekicks you can jump up and kick him in the face, backdash HK or shoryuken. Since it’s Akuma, he’ll either quit doing it or die a really fast death. The rest shouldn’t be too much of a problem since it’s either easy to parry or not disadvantageous to block.


#8

Just stay on your half of the screen, behind the timer in the middle, and Makotos sa2 is no longer a worry. Problem solved!


#9

i haven’t played ken in a long time, after i found the fun in playing makoto and yun ;pp but he was also the character i started with… here are my answers…

1. In match videos very often people don’t go as close as possible to their opponent when he is waking up. Instead they keep some distance even when playing Shoto against shoto. Why is that? I like to get in close use throw or use c.mk and link it to dp, or simply do short times three and try to hit SA3.

ken’s throw range is pretty good… almost good to the point of it being deceiving… when playing a shoto, you should stay AWAY from them when they wake up, as a shoryuken will stuff almost anything you try to do, unless you’re trying to bait one, which is pretty risky, cuz if they decide to throw instead, you probably won’t be able to react fast enough to tech it.

Ken’s s.mp/c.mp is GODLY, and once you can hit confirm this, you can link this from almost half a screen away. if you’re too close to them, the s.mp will turn into his meaty attack, the short uppercut.

ken’s jab dp, IMHO, is like the best move in the game. its ability to stuff from a distance away is amazing, and can hit opponents when it seems like it shouldn’t even come close to them. This becomes an option to put your opponent back on the ground and do some hurtin if you have good reactions and can jab dp when you see your opponent begin an attack animation.

ken’s c.mk and c.fk have good range, but in the situation where u are too close (especially the sweep) , you are easily punished, but if you have the right distance where your toe is hitting the opponent, you will be too far for an easy punish.

ken’s has 4 main options when you are in your opponent’s face when they wake up…

  • s.mp > s.fp > etc (shoryuken or super.)
  • c.lk > c.lk > SAIII
  • b.mk > SAIII
  • Throw

the options arent too bad, but the problem is his axe kick (b.mk) startup animation is pretty fucking obvious, and you can be thrown or poked out of it, or they have plenty of time to react and block high, or parry. his uoh link is risky as hell, as it is also pretty easy to see coming. his c.lks and s.mp can both be blocked low. so what i do at least when playing vs a ken thats in my face, is just block low and watch for his overhead attack animations, and if they don’t do any of those, just get ready to tech a throw.

ken has more/better options when starting from a little distance, since you can also dash/walk up the them quickly enough where they won’t have time to react.

2. IF I do short times three on wakeup is it possible for someone to grab me or superart me if i time it correctly?

NO. If you time it correctly, it works as a meaty. It will stuff most moves, and if you can hit confirm it to SAIII, since its a combo, they will eat it.
however, you will eat most supers, but in high level play, people generally dont wake up super. you will stuff supers that take time to activate, such as ryu’s SAI/SAIII, or chun’s SAII.

3. When someone tries to air cross me up and I run under them which attack is best to use to ensure damage?

I wouldn’t recommend trying to dash under people with ken’s “decent at best” dash. but if this situation happens, i would suggest a s.mp or c.mpor c.lks hit confirmed into SAIII

4. If someone jumps into me and then tries to grab me, but instead of grabbing I do short kick, will i come out on top mostly or is it better to always grab when someone jumps over or into u?

if you try to short vs a throw, if they are in throw range they will throw you. the only real “no-risk” option after an empty jump is to throw, cuz the worst that can happen is that the throw will be techd. this is why you see (if you’ve ever seen it) daigo empty jump in, and fierce shoryuken. EVERYONE will expect a throw after an empty jump it, but the shoryuken will beat the throw. It seems like Daigo is just being random as fuck, but in reality he’s taking advantage of people’s “habits”… if you will…

5. I’m having problems punishing Chun Lis SA2. The last kick pushes me far away from her and I can’t connect with my C.mk. Should I try to parry the last kick or simply do SA3 directly after her last kick?

You should parry the last kick, but if you can’t or don’t want to try, I believe you can just super after being pushed back… the c.mk wont hit, but a plain SAIII will… (i think)

6. When I play against this guy online vs Makoto he does the grab then puts me down and slaps the shit out of me and then links into his stun combo. After that the round is basicly over. Usually the way he sets himself up for this is by using his lightning dash attack, or whatever its called and then either does c.short and the attack again or the grab. Whichever way I’m screwed. What can I do to not get myself in either of those situations?

being mainly a makoto player (at least nowadays), I can tell you that taking the fight up close is probably the worst thing you can do. makoto has too many gimmicks/mixups, and if the makoto is good, you’ll hardly see any of that shit coming. play a good keep-away game, using safe pokes to try to keep her away from you (c.lk, c.mp, and c.mk) the one thing makoto fears the most vs a ken is ken’s shoryuken. it shuts down practically every setup or gimmick, but use it sparingly, cuz ur screwed if it is anticipated and blocked. play keep away, and stay on your side of the screen, but away from the corner… if she does the c.lk > hayate (the dash punch thingy… this is what im assuming you are talking about), on a block the hayate is incredibly punishable… just c.mk > SAIII after every blocked hayate as long as your bar can keep it up, otherwise, punish however you want (i prefer to just jab shoryuken). playing a good makoto can get fucking frustrating, and it takes time to be able to recognize her most popular gimmicks and setups.
*
7. Against Akuma he always gets me in the corner and throws air fireballs at me and mixes it with grabs and hurricane kicks. I always end up in the corner no matter how I play. And I hate being in the corner like a little biatch getting dominated… What can I do?*

VS a good akuma, the corner is the WORST possible place you can be… if he throws out hurricane kicks, just block it and punish when he lands. do NOT try to do anything on wake up (unless ur gonna be risky as hell and throw out a random super or a shoryuken) cuz akuma has lots of ways he can stuff you. just be patient and look for an opportunity to punish him, or throw him into the corner. cuz a akuma that gets hit is a dead akuma ^^

8. When someone misses their DP or other anti air attack I get a free shot to punish him but many times I screw it up by hitting too soon and instead they fly “out of my grip” and I end up giving minimal damage. I noticed that when I use S.Mp many times my opponent manage to grab me or dp if i wait too long, but if I don’t they “fly out of my grip”. Should I use another attack then the middle punch, fierce punch SA3 combo? Or do I just need to get the timing down?

get the timing down… all i can say…
otherwise, use c.mk > SAIII… i believe that the opponent has to be on the ground for a c.mk to hit, and they will fall into its frames. this will eliminate the “reset” problem u got going.

9. What are good ways to set up for UOH into SA3? Also which kick button should i use to link it and when should i start doing the motion?

You should know how to do a UOH > SAIII to make your arsenal a little stronger, but its risky in a match. i suggest you stay away from trying to land it in a match. the UOH has to hit too “perfectly” for it to really be applicable as a viable option in a match. also, if it gets parried, you’re screwed. but if you insist on landing it, know that there are 2 situations in which you can link a UOH > SAIII.

  • you meaty the uoh, and your opponent wakes up into it and gets hit by it during its last frames.
  • you have the perfect spacing where your uoh will hit your opponent during its last frames.
    as for which kick you should use, you should be “drumming” it out. like… pretend you are playing the piano, and hit all 3 kicks a “drumming” fashion, so you maximize your chances to immediately do SAIII.

10. How do i do double dp in midscreen? I’ve seen em done in matches but i never seem to get one of. I read I’m suppose to Kara and then do the dp. Which is the easiest way to kara and how do i do it?

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=86370

From mopreme blog:

Verifiable Kara-uppercut Mid-screen
Kara-uppercut is really good. I have been trying to find more ways to land it, but generally it is up to your opponent to mess up to give you an opportunity to hit them, such as whiffing a throw for instance. Low forward -> DP and stand strong -> DP are generally the two main ways to land it. Unfortunately, neither is verifiable.

The hit confirm kara-uppercut mid-screen, the only way that seems to work is meaty UOH -> DP. It?s good, like after landing a super. But after a normal knockdown, your opponent can quick recover, and doesn?t leave you enough to time set up a meaty UOH on wake up. I have been trying to find some other way to land kara-DP mid-screen. Although I don?t think there is any other way, I came across something I thought was neat while experimenting.

I was thinking that if you could link jap DP after a meaty stand strong, that would give you enough time to verify it. You can in fact link jab DP after a meaty stand strong, however, you can?t get a second kara-DP. When you cancel stand strong into DP, you move forward and cancel before you get pushed back from the strong punch hitting. But when you link it, you get pushed back the full distance of the strong hitting, so you are not in range to hit a second jab DP. But you can link DP after a meaty stand strong. Not really useful, but kind of neat.

Complete Kara-Shoryuken Listing
Here are the circumstances where Ken can do 2 jab Shoryukens.

Midscreen:
Strong fierce Shoryuken Shoryuken

  • Q

Stand strong/low forward Shoryuken Shoryuken

  • Necro, Elena

Stand fierce Shoryuken Kara-Shoryuken

  • Chun Li, Makoto, 12, Necro

Stand strong/low forward Shoryuken Kara-Shoryuken

  • Ken, Ryu, Akuma, Sean, Chun Li, Makoto, 12, Necro, Urien

Corner:
Strong fierce Shoryuken Shoryuken

  • Ken, Ryu, Akuma, Sean, Chun Li, Makoto, 12, Necro, Urien, Elena

Strong fierce Shoryuken Kara-Shoryuken

  • Remy, Ibuki, Hugo

Stand fierce Shoryuken Kara-Shoryuken

  • Yun, Yang, Oro

11. What is a good way to set up for an air crossup?

Theres no real way to “set up” for the air crossup, but once you keep trying the crossup, you’ll learn the distance and spacing you need for the crossup to work, from normal jumping or super jumping. the most reliable time to do it is probably when your opponent is waking up.
*
12. I’m having trouble hit confirming. Should I for instance do c.mk then qct qcf and then release the button or should i do qcf qcf and then hit the button again? Also what is the easiest way to hit confirm, meaning which attack gives me the longest time to see if it hit?*

Hit confirming a c.mk > SAIII is tough, and arguably impossible to be able to do it consistantly on a random c.mk hit. you should probably save the hit confirms to c.lk x2, s.mp (close) >s.hp, s.mp (far), c.mp, b.mk, and f.hk.

as for c.mk, its easier to truly hit confirm it into a shoryuken, and thats what i stick with.


goddamn that took longer than i thought it would. feel free to ask anything else.

hope it helps.


#10

i 2 years learning shit reading shit watching shit practicing in training mode, when i found some competition i figured out one thing. shit aint sweet when you get comboed on


#11

Yo ESK. That was a loooot of help man!:tup::tup: Thx for taking the time.:smile:

I’ve been watching a lot of vids and I notice people often do s.mk after a combo that got blocked. Very often in the corner…Is this to keep them there if they jump? Isn’t it kind of risky to do it? I mean a sweep or c.mk and you’ll be punshied right?


#12

I’m pretty sure a s.mk is pretty safe on block… I don’t have the frame data in front of me, but I can’t recall ever being punished for a blocked s.mk.

Yes, it is used stop jumpers.

It’s probably ken’s safest option after a blocked combo, it has good range, comes out fast, and has little or no recovery time. It’s also his highest hitting normal, in terms of height… easily stops jumpers, and keeps you on the offense. Just think of it almost as a block string.


#13

It’s not punishable by c.MK or s.MP, but if launched in the wrong place Ken’s c.MP can punish it because the move is -6 on block. Generally it can be reversaled by any super that has the range for it.

That’s is just on block, if it whiffs your opponent can dash in and punish with stuff like MP,HP X Hado XX SA3. This applies to both HKs too, but with c.MK you’re very likely to be able to defend yourself.

So that doesn’t make it Ken’s safest option after blocked combo:P His safest option after block is generally do nothing:P


#14

As far as I know, you have to do the attacks some milliseconds in advance before they land. It’s timing, and you can practice by setting the CPU (in training mode) to jump. It’s somewhat unsafe, as they may jump with an attack and outprioritize your standing/ crouching attacks.

You can do up-close low LK x2/3 (or low LK, low LP, low LK), and look for a hit-confirm. If it’s blocked, you can quickly distance yourself in the perfect position and go for a max range UOH->SA3. Other set-ups are after air-resets, which you’ll see plenty of from Chun Li players. Perfecting the max range of the UOH takes practice. Try it out in training mode.

Use all 3 buttons. I don’t think it’ll come out if it’s blocked or parried, because of the extra air-time you get.


#15

Give this man some rep.

Seriously.


#16

I would but I don’t know how. I only get the add to rep icon on my own posts…:looney:


#17

You need to be a premium member to give rep.