Help on beating a good flowchart Ken

dan

#1

Hello everyone, I am new to the Kr— I mean Srk forums. I would love if anyone could give me some tips on how to beat Ken with Dan. He seems pretty difficult for me.


#2

Hit him more times than he hits you? Shit, man, I don’t know.


#3

Don’t waste time. Stay as close as possible. Focus on baiting out Shoryuken. Punish with s.MP/s.HP/cr.HP xx HK.Danku. Look for openings to Anti-Air with Koryuken. Win. Ask in character specific forums next time! thumbs up

You may have to practice to get your execution down, but you can beat flowcharts with those tools alone.


#4

Baiting the Shoryuken is the most important thing. Punishing it effectively is essential (middle punch xx danku danku is the best punishment - good ken users are impervious to grabs). Practice the punishment so you can do it without loosing frames (else you risk a second shoryuken)

The second most important is to bait is ultra and then do an air taunt while he goes up, so Dan “goes up” with it. That doesn’t lower their health bar, but it is awesome!

Some Kens like to do lots of pokes (middle kicks). Practice your focus attack against that.

By the way, when I mean “practice” I mean “really practice”. As in “go to practice mode, choose ken as opponent and make him do the moves you want to practice against”.


#5

Isn’t “good flowchart” an oxymoron? I don’t know what it is, probably Internet lag, but Kens seem to recover way too quickly after any kind of SRK. It’s so annoying since the first time you take a frame too long to punish them and they reply with another SRK you’re always eager to make sure you’re not too late to punish and as a result end up being too quick, hitting them in the air only to reset them while HK Dankuu flies by meaninglessly only to get hit by yet another SRK, or worse a Shinryuken.

If lag seems to be poor or random, if they have a lot of air time the easiest thing to do is just Kouryuken them as they’re coming down. If they’re doing Light SRKs at a distance don’t fall for those lag tactics BS and just wait out for them to do another one.


#6

that’s so funny, I was just going to post about this. We just bought an HDTV, and it appears we purchased a few extra frames of input lag as well… even putting the d@mn thing on game-mode.

I’ve been having a HELLUVA time with flowcharts. In some matches I can’t even block their fireballs unless I’m psychic!

I know this is going to sound really basic/stupid, but playing on this TV is like learning how to walk all over again. One thing I noticed is that if you’re too close, you get flaming DP’d when you jump over the fireballs, if you’re too far, they try to trip you on landing. standing JUST barely far enough away when you jump ( being psychic with their fireballs actually isn’t that hard with these guys) confuses them and can bait out a DP. as for punishing their DP, i start the s.MP/HK DANKU right after they begin falling from the peak of their DP, and it hits them just in time.

lame, huh? I’m thinking I should dig out my old CRT t.v. just for SF4.


#7

Plasma, LED, and HD/SD CRT are very good when it comes to input delay.

When you want to beat a flow chart ken and you’re playing online, if you ever see a light shoryu keep blocking and he will do a medium/heavy/ex 80% of the time after, another light 10% of the time after (which then has another 80% to do medium/heavy/ex) or something else. These statistics are for flow chart kens only and do not reflect the actions of true ken players. The reason why you keep blocking is because the delay over the internet provides the means of making his shoryu safe by doing another shoryu. Running joke between me and my friends is how do you make a shoryu safe?


#8

There’s a topic about TVs and lag/delays somewhere. Seems like you just bought the “wrong” TV :frowning:

Scrubs trying to trip you after a jump is pretty funny, you can just do an empty jump and immediately reply with a Kouryuken to stuff that shit. A while ago I played a Sagat who’s only purpose was to try and hit me with f.HK after spamming fireballs, so I purposely jumped out of reach of his f.HK knowing full well he’ll try and hit me with it and instantly did Ultra on landing, was rather amusing :stuck_out_tongue:


#9

I’d say 75% of the Kens and Sagats I face online do that. Its one of the reasons why I choose Ultra 1 so often, buffer it on jump in, watch Sagat’s sad lonely eye get HUGE as his foot harmlessly passes through Dan’s head… priceless. Although once, if ever, I get FADC-ing down consistently Ultra 2 is going to get a work out.

One thing to learn with Kens that have a hard-on for fierce SRK is that spacing is pretty important in using it. Throw their spacing off as much as possible and punish their whiffed SRK. Back dash A LOT, best case they miss entirely, worse case you eat one hit for like 10 damage or whatever it is. Once you get the feel for that spacing you’ll get hit far less often. Canceling a random FA is another bait that can bring the SRK out of a “flowchart”.

Really it comes down to this: Is he capable of learning? If so TEACH him how you want him to respond, then change it up and punish him for doing what you taught him to do. If not, then LEARN what he will do and predict and punish. The third option is that he is applying the same mentality to you but if that is the case then he isn’t a “flowchart” and your strategy and your mind games will need more layers of complexity.


#10

Flowcharts by definition do not learn, they are too thick to learn and will do the same crap endlessly no matter the consequences. Isn’t that the definition of insane? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? :stuck_out_tongue:


#11

I have to point this out: Sagat only has one eye, since he fought FATHER!


#12

Good looking out, Kikito. It has been corrected. You’re right Sugami, flowcharts don’t learn but there are variations in the number of conditionals that are present. Some are so simple they are more timelines than anything else while some might be so complex as to become pale imitations of the complex multi layered strategies employed by us esteemed Dan players.


#13

(uhhhh…what?)

Yeah totally! Follow Saikyo! Im awesome!


#14

Good Lord, Im surprised that thread title didn’t cause the internet to explode, its a paradox of epic proportions.


#15

oh, flow chart ken, how oft have i kicked thee in the head. no wonder you have a pink cowboy outfit after all the head trauma. How i jump close, then focus away your lousy Hadouken, punching you solidly to set you up for a combo. how many times have i taunted you mercilessly as you Shoryuken futilely into the air, to wind up to the mercy of the almighty Koryuken, or Dankyaku? A flowchart by any other name would fail just as deftly, just as Dan’s phone bill will lapse in payment.


#16

Having some huge issues with this myself Ryu is even worse… infact add in anyone with an uppercut which is most players.

The main issues is I cant engage Ryu or Ken. I jump in they time there Shoryuken PERFECTLY. I hop back they zone me with Hadouken.
I jump in they Shoryuken FADC and it’s a technical. I cant not allowed in.

Dan kicks are incredibly USELESS against Ryu & Ken and the thing that irritates the F out of me is that ‘go go’ shytebefore he uses them, Hey Dan’s using his hop kicks MAN THE FIREBALL UP PEOW FIRE.

Anyway Light Shoryuken, Hadouken = gg Dan. Im also a complete NOOB and after Ive eaten a few light Shoryukens juggled onto fireballs I am ready to give up. Former Bison player AND cannot believe dan kicks dont go through projectiles like scissor kicks. I still ex dan kick into projectiles all the time as my brain just does not compute this. If anyone has any tips for me to deal with Ryu I would be appreciative. Sometimes I just throw Gadoukens hoping it will be a 0-0 draw but then come the fireballs.

I wish Dan didnt make that sound before he started his kicks. I wish EX went through projectiles. Im not able to bait Ryu & Ken against good players. They simply stare at me and say no thanks I will just spam light hadouken, you cant get near me and If you start that hop kick shit I’ll counter you with Hadouken I just cant get in. I notice everyone has these problems though everyone who plays Dan but still gah.

Spam is a genuine problem SO I get close he stops spamming light shoryuken Im waiting for it thinking finally it’s Dans turn to hand out a beating… AND HE THROWS ME FFS and I once again have to jump into shoryukens again to get close. OR they step backwards sweep you and cross you up using your only strengths against you cruel, cruel game.

When Ryu jumps in with those crouching light punches I do nothing right? Wait for him to stop and guess either Shoryuken or throw or something. Due to frame data or whatever I would just open myself up to more damage by fighting Ryu’s LP with my own LP is that right? I lose the ascendency and my confidence really quick and then I have what I call my ‘defending dan’ which is an abomination and a disgrace to all Dan players and has been known as Mr Perfect for barely sometimes failing to land a single blow :expressionless:

And which one of Dan’s air moves does the business to Ryu’s air hurricane when Ryu does air hurricane I should do?? Another thing I struggle with!

I have seen people get in with a jump crouching medium kick into I think hard dan kicks but I am also a noob and cant really link that atm, maybe when I get my madcatz fight pad instead of the PS3 controller.

Have issues with the big guys too. T hawk runs in T hawk slams the fuck out of me t hawk back dashes t hawk frame recovers… T hawk runs in. T hawk is blocked T. Hawk command grabs, Dans whole game is being close and throw or dragon but command grabs really… put the spanner in the works here.

Im often able to land ultra one and pinch a round with unfamiliarity but once they get the lowdown on Dan the emperor has no clothes.

  1. Is back dashing after Dan kicks compulsory and what is the kind of point of it, everyone knows ur just going to turn around and come back lol.
  2. light dan kicks hit high (do they combo with light kicks? I dont think they do) Going low with dans reasonable light kick then high with light dan kick works OK but once people see it not comboing it the rabbit is ut of the bag once again and it becomes useless as they will light shoryuken you and give you a fireball for good measure.
  3. That medium spacing f’s me. Blanka. Bison. Balrog are the these type kinds, camp away, run in, back dash go again and then Bisons got he’s good air moves too my poor dan doesn’t know wut to do.
  4. Where do med dan kicks hit and does -2 mean… they can get out short shoryuken and thow. When I go for it and it’s blocked? and what is the point point of ex or hard dan kicks damage seems similar recovery seems more point seems 0/
  5. Does everyone here religiously throw medium kicks and medium punches as it’s our best move frame data wise? far HK is also sweet but not often in range.

Wouldn’t mind some advice. Im a noob. I normally jump in with MEDIUM kick as it’s easier for me to combo with and go straight to a dragon punch or a light punch and a gadouken. I figure Dan is actually playable now so we aint going to be getting any buffs if I cant do it now I never willllllll