help with shotos...


#1

hey… dont really know much about this game but ive been messing around a bit… i was wondering who ppl think is better in A groove: Akuma, Ryu, or Ken… from wat i’ve read it seems ryu isnt that good, but akuma is good and ken is getting better (or some1 played him well recently?)… sorry for my lack of knowledge, if any1 can help me out thatd b great…


#2

Ryu doesn’t have much in the abuseable move category. Technically you could do the same flame fireball thing in the corner that Akuma players do, but it’s a lot harder to setup.

Akuma is probably the best A-Groove shoto, but, even though he has a million setups, he does take some practice to use effectively. His main damage dealer is the hcf+hp in the corner, but the trick is getting them over to the corner, which involves a lot of his oddball command jumping attacks.

Ken is the easiest A-Groove shoto to pick up because all you do is towards+mk 10 or 12 times before you trip them up and do a Shin-Shoryuken super. That, and it’s pretty easy to burn a level 1 Shin-Sho for anyone foolish enough to jump over Ken and get more mileage out of your super meter instead of wasting it all on a pretty average and always risky anti-air CC


#3

ken’s cc is towards + Roundhouse. Plus you can also try to reset the custom by doing towards -> forward kick(overhead), then after that hits, continue with towards + roundhouse. Mad Damage!


#4

Oops, that’s right. I’m getting my Third Strike Ken mixed up with my CvS2 Ken.


#5

Ryu’s red FB is only one hit. It’s not good for CCs.

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Akuma’s red FB is hcb, not hcf… which is why many ppl accidentally get manual rolls.

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Ryu is the one with the shinsho… Ken has Shinryuken… and Ken’s AA CC isn’t risky at all… it’s easy guaranteed damage, especially against C-Groove jumpers.


#6

so it sounds like ken is easy to pick up eh? thanx for the help so far… any1 wana post up some strats for me? thanx


#7

tsk tsk

I play Ryu a lot more then any other shoto, and while he is not as fast with his priority as Ken is, or quick off recovery like Akuma, Ryu has a very strong move damage base, and in my opinion, the strongest fireball in the game.

Ryu has a lot more options then Ken as far as defensive, and offensive maneuvers, specificly the standing hk. This move owns for shutting down jumpers, also it’s fast enough, that a wiffed won’t insure a sweep CH (the way a dragon punch would) Second, Ryu’s cr.mk f.mk are two very powerful tools that can be used to maintain pressure. Also, using fireballs, whenever possible, are that much better with Ryu then Ken because hcf+p does more hits and damage then Kens. Also, this move throws opponents off balance, which is pretty useful imo. Of course, Akuma has the same .hk as Ryu, a stronger fireball and a waaay better Hp then either Ken or Ryu. But once you get towards the lights and mediums with Akuma, it’s pretty mediocre, whereas Ryu, with his fierce has a lot of diffrent options of maintaining distance and spacing.

Whoever you decide to play is pretty irrelevant though, it’s really a question of personal taste, a friend of mine uses ken with a strong move base of hurricane kick and backwards Zk combos, this is good, but the damage only really comes from using the backwards Z. Also, Ken has an Airthrow, which you can use to stop Blankas air rolls. Oh it’s true it’s true. I’m pretty sure that his Z.Hp has the greatest reach of the two shotos, but for me using slow/fast fireballs is more signfigant for my style.


#8

im sorry, mayb its because im new at this game… but Z? can some1 explain? never heard that… or r u referring to the dp motion( ie f,d, df or 623)… just wana make sure im not misinterpreting wat ur saying…


#9

dragon punch, (f, d, d/f) yes sorry.


#10

Re: Re: help with shotos…

OUCH, thanks for catching all of that lol i was ready to explode on that guy. :frowning: so much incorrect advice :bluu:

dude, the concept of custom combos is that all hits at the end of the combo do only 100 damage no matter what, so the most damaging cc will be the one with the hits coming out fastest at the end, bison, sakura, akuma, why do you think these guys are great in a groove? the hits on their ccs come out at like 5 per second, so it doesnt matter that they each only do one hundred damage because a good sakura can pull out 53 hit combos.


#11

tsk tsk

sorry but ken and akuma are just better than ryu. Ken with his RC’s and above par ground game, akuma with the crazy rushdown and infinite demon set ups. Don’t get me wrong Ryu is a decent character but he’s not better than ken or akuma.


#12

hmm, im not sure, i play all three and its very strange,

Ken: I can sometime wipe out a whole team with just him and get really lucky, dishes out alot of damage, but… alot of the time i dont do much at all.

Ryu: I can always deal a fair amount of damage with ryu, never amazingly much or regrettably low.

Akuma: same as ken, if you get the ball rolling, youve won the match, but other wise, youre dead awfully quick.


#13

Re: tsk tsk

I never said that Ryu was best, in many respects Akuma and Ken have a bit more going for them, but in my opinion on the basic level Ryu does more damage by far. Akuma and Ken both have to land DPs and Hurricane kicks accurately to make sure that all hits connect, on the other hand, Ryu only needs one hit to do full potential damage.

[edit] also Ryu has a great leaping mp. This move owns air parry poopheads


#14

the way i see it, its about consistancy. ryu is VERY consistant in the damage he deals, since his shoryukens and whirlwind kicks arent based on multiple hits, ken and akuma often dont deal much damage consistantly because their specials are mostly multi hitting, and if you dont get all the hits, (which happens very often) you do shit for damage.
In the end its like this Ryu= consistant amount of damage, ken and akuma= damage fluctuates from much less, to much more than that of ryus, depending on how well you play your round.

The differences besides hit count in specials are as listen below:

ken:
Three different, mostly usefull, hcf special normals, hcf mk, hcf hk, and of course… hcf lk.
Flop kick, not always used in high leve play for its… uhh, lets say predictability, it comes out a little slow, but thats NOT to say it has no use.
also noteworthy is that kens j.mk is a little different from the other shotos, its better for cross-ups.

ryu:
Hop kick, not so great but… you can use it here and there.
red fireball, hmm, its pretty usefull for stopping advancements on those who like to jump in, knocks down up close only though, and is not usefull in cc’s like akumas because it only does one hit (weak…)
His s.rh is a little bit different. at a higher angle and pretty good as anti air if you predict a jump-in but dont want to risk throwing a whiffed dp :S.

Akuma: More of an A groove character because of his ability to NOT waste an activation, lk hurricane, activate is TOO good, you can pull out the cc any time, and just lk hurricane to the corner where you do 400 damage for every red fireball you throw before the meter runs out.
His moves link in REALLY weird ways, you can do two light hurricanes one after the other, sweep into hurricane, dp out of MANY situations.
Demon flip, not so often used outside of his CC because of its… speed. another reason why akuma was made for A.
Air fireball-not what it used to be, 'nuff said.

a few more comments on super differences:

Ken deserves more for his qcfx2+p super :frowning: Shoryureppa isnt so great, though it works good as a level 2 cancel, and you can combo into it from many jumpins… it seems to come out hella slow, and is very counterable if you DONT combo into it.

Ryu - GAH! Shinshoryuken does GODLY DAMAGE, too bad it has less range than a THROW. Super hurricane is too good, Great for that infinite level one in s groove, and if it gets blocked, EVERYONE trys to hit you after it, soo… immediately do shinku hadoken, hah hah, ive won matches with this alot. - note, dont use level three super hurricane unless you are 100% sure you are going to hit. Its always good to use level2 for reasons mentioned above.

I dont play akuma so i dont want to give any advice on his super.


#15

ryu is a strong worthy character.
i can depend on him and his infinit shinkuhadoken and super hurricane.

and btw, hop kick is +1 on bloc, not so UNusefull.

"Thus having better consistency than Ryu? What I mean, is that in the worst possible case, you never score a nice knockdown, never land your supers, never get a chance to do what you want "

Ryu is all about knockdown, hurricane kick is knockdown, red firebal is knock down, DP is kncok down

i use him in S groove so landing a super aint a problem so i wont say anything about that

and never getting a chance to do what i want? well i think thats more of a player thing wouldnt you agree?

im just saying, dont under estimate ryu, i think we all agree that he is a strong, solid and dependable character.

IMPO i think ken is good also, he has really a very good ground game, RC, and all of his kicks are basicly powerfull.

but i use ryu to rushdown, witch is think is the way he should be used, also, i wouldnt ignore his rush punch, i dont know how it works, but it does, and it does great.

and akuma is just low on life witch basicly lowers his valuea good deal. NOT that he’s usless, but not VERY dependable, thats all.

all 'n all, i think it comes down to the player and the chosen groove. not the shoto, scince there pretty equal.


#16

You can hit Ken when he whiffs RC funky kick. The move is really good, but I wouldn’t go too crazy with these things; especially if you’re going up against Chun, Sagat, Cammy, or Blanka when they all have meter.


#17

kcjx you get the pm or what?

and wraithco, i dunno, im pretty dependant on specials for damage, kens feirce srk = 2300 damage, < ALOT.

lets say you are using shoryuken only as antiair, and never on the ground, that means ken only lands one hit of the srk, and does… 840 damage, Now when ryu is in the same situation, he deals out the ALL the potential damage of his srk, because there is only one hit to his.

so there is a difference between:
Ken landing anywhere from 840-2300 damage.
Ryu landing 1995 damage no matter what.
Ken lands anywhere from 315-1575 damage on a hurricane.
Ryu lands 1470 no matter what.

and dont tell me that doesnt count for much damage in this game, because, get in 3-4 srk’s with ken and youve done enough to kill some ratio 1’s.

Point proven? thank you, come again.


#18

Umm… I’m not trying to say that I’m a high level player (wait I play with my friends when I get high… and it works, so yeah high level play I’m down… wait what were we talking about? Oh yeah)

I’m a fan of Ryu. This is because of the three, his attitude and style fit mine most accurately. I don’t care who you play, what you do, where you run, anything. Because I know that eventually I’ll figure out the best Ryu move for the situation. I could do the same thing with Akuma, Ken, Cammy, etc etc. But there is something cool about standing into the wind.

Now, Wraithco, you said you didn’t care that you missed out on damage as long as you knock the other person down… well I agree, KD is incredibly useful in every fighting game, but can you admit, that ryu has an edge in range because his hcf+p KD? I assume when you talk about funky kick, you’re talking about f.mk. This is a cool move, and I haven’t seen it RCed, but I can see potential, add to that a solid offense of f.hk and leaping .mk crossovers and you got yourself a good ball rolling.

Keep in mind gentlemen, it is my belief that of the three, Akuma is the strongest. If three identicaly skilled players got together to play just the shotos, I suspect that Akuma would walk away victorious. I NEVER said that Ryu was best or better. But I do believe that his basic movelist (Yes, Hopkick and f.hp) offer loads in the way of setups and combos. This, with a KD fireball makes an appetizing character for me.

But you know, if Ryu never has the high level play lime light, that’s ok, because it just makes it more rewarding for me to play and win with discipline and nerve.


#19

hcf+lk, not f+mk


#20

Sorry, I’m not interested. You guys can take whatever you want that I’ve already written here though. As long credit is given where credit is due and there’s no blatant, word for word plagerization, like some some scrubs at gamefaqs did to my work then claimed it as their own, I’m fine.