"Hey! Let's do this for real." Concept/Discovery/Match-up Videos

cody

#1001

Nice. can someone explain the input in details. I have no idea how to execute/time it. it just feels like mashing.

Edit: I think I got it. Seems to lose vs EX DP. found it to be a lot easier to plink by mapping hp/mp/lp button to throw and plink that with hp.


#1002

Are you sure you need to plink it? Seems to work for me without plinking…


#1003

Is this possible with Ex Zonk despite negative edge ?
This should be something like hold [HP+MP], press down back, release [MP+HP] and press [LP+LK].


#1004

Sakura’s f.Lk is good against Cody and can punish a Lp CU but I wouldn’t say it’s a troublesome button for him. It’s something minor to look out for.

As for her focus, you shouldn’t really be reacting to it with a c.Lk. Usually cancel a c.Lp or c.Mp into EX CU if you have meter or jump forward, releasing zonk if you’re holding a button is the best option though.

I agree with her NJ Hk/Air tatsu being quite annoying but her FJ Hp? Disagree. Cody has many AAs to deal with it not to mention the best two being Hk ruff and EX CU (invincibility buff makes this very strong now and a trade is always in your favour).

As for the backdash comment, it should always be used. It’s a defensive option. You shouldn’t remove an entire option just because your opponent MAY punish it. They won’t punish it EVERY time so it should still be used. I did say mix it up, just generally.

Perfect Bad Stone (PBS) is very good against Cammy, even with great reactions. If you’re mixing it up with pokes and other things, you can still use bad stone and PBS, if not reacted to before he releases the rock, is safe barring a few moves.

As for the crouch tech Hp again, that’s an option that will work against her if she decides to go for an instant EX CS. It shouldn’t be ruled out although the risk reward is more in Cammy’s favour.

I didn’t actually realise I didn’t move Chun and Oni to 5.5 in their advantage. I’ll edit that but Dan and Poison are remaining where they are.

With Poison, Cody can keep up with her fb game and PBS prevents her from using any flipkicks and jumping to get in.

The only disadvantage in this situation is the meter gain.

It’s also very easy to react to her fireballs (excluding EX) because of the slow start up.

She can’t combo her U1 from EX Rekka mid screen because it misses on Cody, Cody punish all Rekkas at all distances (except EX at max distance), also her flipkicks (except Lk and EX) can be avoided with c.Mk and punished.

Zonk can be used against her fireballs and FJ.Hp avoids her fireballs if you decide to go for a jump in (should be done rarely anyway).

The matchup evens out when she gets in and starts mixing up her overheads, flipkicks, throws and fireball pressure.

Her ability to constantly keep you in her EX rekka loop is also a terrible thing for Cody to deal with.

If she has u2 all safe jumps against her are useless as she can just react to your safe jump and reversal u2 for big damage. Forcing cody to pressure on the ground or perform a non safe jump that she could DP.

She also has ambiguous jump ins from a back throw with FJ.Lk and FJ.Hk.

Her ability to punish LP CU also means losing a safe chip option.

That’s why she’s there at 5-5.

I don’t think Yun is as bad as some Cody players make out. He definitely wrecks him but I think Rufus is a harder match.

The ability to punish Yun’s Lp shoulder and the dive kick being at terrible frame advantage when it’s not executed properly makes a big difference.

Not to mention the fake crossup/crossup setup in the corner with EX ruffian (I’m sure the jump medium is an unblockable, will have to clarify).

And then there’s Cody’s PBS which makes it more difficult to punish rocks with shoulder. It’s still bad just not THAT bad.

I actually think El Fuerte is worse purely because of the heavy guessing game and lack of reversal options.

Also, 6-4 is an advantage I’m the opponents characters favour.Two characters can both be 6-4 and one can be more difficult than the other. Saying one is harder than the other doesn’t warrant a move up to 7-3, it just means that’s a “more difficult” 6-4.

As for Rose being 6-4, the zonk through her blockstrings is not even the main reason. Rose can’t play her generic game against Cody.

He negates one of her specials entirely making it completely useless in the matchup because Cody doesn’t throw plasma but a physical rock.

He actually wins the fireball war which essentially means she has to approach. I’d disagree with Rose out poking Cody. His c.Lp beats pretty much every poke and his f.Mp is a great tool against her at closer ranges.

Her slide is rarely safe against him because of his 3f c.Lk and aside from backdash (which can be OS with u2) her wake up game is weak. You can OS Mk Ruffian on her backdash and even if you don’t OS it, SHE has to approach and she’s putting herself closer to the corner.

I just think Cody has the advantage the majority of the match.

I wouldn’t move Bison up to 5.5 it I’d like to hear your reasoning for why. My reason is simply because when Bison plays lame neither character is really at an advantage however Bison can keep a life lead a lot better than Cody.

Viper is 100% not even. The c.Mk is useful for getting around the burn kicks but it’s not a game changer.

F.Hk will get punished every time by a Viper that knows how to play Cody if you’re throwing it out trying to avoid seismos. Her improved c.Mk and Mp TK is also annoying for Cody to deal with although he can beat any button she presses after it apart from Hp TK.

The safe jump after Hp CU helps cody keep the pressure on and OS EX CU keeps her pinned down but her burst damage and overall good buttons and rush down give her a slight edge over Cody.

I think Problem X is good enough to clarify this with myself.

Too much theory fighter against Elena. You can punish all of her specials but you really have to be ready for them because if you miss the first few frames she ends up blocking.

Her mobility is a huge advantage over Cody. Good walk speed, backdash on par with Chun Li and a 4 frame DP so safe jumping her is out the window.

She can punish LP CU quite easily with her long rage 3f c.Lk (I think it’s that normal) and her normals have long range and convert into decent corner carry and damage.You’re also quite reluctant to throw rocks if they use u2 (Not to mention sliding on reaction to bad stones relatively slow startup).

All of her specials being unsafe is what makes it easier for Cody.

Dudley is 5.5 as well because, like you said, Cody and Dudley have pretty much the same gameplan except when Dudley gets a hit he sends you to the corner and he’s generally in range to keep the pressure on. He also has the option to throw in a random overhead with basically zero risk and convert into huge damage whereas Cody, doesn’t have a high/low mixup that he can implement. He’s more linear.

That’s what pushes it to a 5.5 imo.


#1005

I’ve seen a few people say that Cody wins the fireball war against Rose, but she can just match your rocks with fireballs instead of reflect and build meter 3 times faster.


#1006

she builds meter faster than most other characters regardless of what she does. That’s one of her overall advantages but the fact she can’t reflect your rocks or absorb them means she’d eventually have to approach. Her meter doesn’t change much against Cody to be honest.


#1007

If she has no meter you can option select her wake-up to cover all options. I find it hard to believe it’s a winning strategy for Cody to let her build as much meter as she wants while he does zero damage to her at far range. If she has more meter she has more ammunition for EX spark and Cody is more likely to get hit by it than she is to get hit by EX rocks, and I think the 2nd hit damage distribution is in her favour on that anyway. And if she does decide to approach, the higher her meter is at that moment the more likely she is to build and hit super.


#1008

even with Meter, you can OS Rose with cr.MK seeing that covers all go to options. It’s nothing grand of a punish but it will cover EX spiral, backdash, and go under EX soul throw.

Rose having meter in this match doesn’t change much though. Either she’s burning it on EX spiral or throwing out ex fireballs. Even from full screen, Cody can sit there throwing rocks comfortably and Rose is wasting meter for a few hits on EX fireball? It’s even worse when you have the life lead. If all she gets is a possible EX fireball hitting me when I have the lead then…that’s fine. She has to either keep throwing more fireballs which can be met with rocks, or take the risk to come in for actual damage. Not being able to reflect rocks turns the whole match around on top of being able to punish badly spaced spirals and zonk through all her “blockstrings”. Even worse when U2 is stocked. She’s forced to play a guessing game of if she’s going to cancel into a special or not. Still doesn’t make it any easier for Rose.


#1009

Fair point with the OS - maybe I should have said that your max damage off a safe OS is much better when she has no meter.

Of course Rose has to go in if Cody develops a life lead, but he has no way to develop one in the fireball war outside of EX rocks and dash up EX ruffian. EX rocks is poor compared directly to EX spark at long range both because it doesn’t reach full screen, has much slower startup and does less damage when only the second hit connects (which you would expect to be the most common scenario in a fireball war). Rose can comfortably throw fireballs until Cody get that one bar, but even then it should be clear to Rose what Cody wants to do and it’s also a risk for Cody as EX ruffian can quite easily lose to EX spark. The fact that she builds meter way faster means she can gamble on EX spark more frequently while Cody can’t if he wants the EX ruffian deterrent. If the Rose player somehow makes a mistake, say a failed focus attempt, and Cody takes the lead then yes I can see how he could force her to come in, but that just won’t happen in the fireball war the majority of the time. Either Rose takes the life lead and she can just as easily deal with Cody’s rocks at range or neither player takes a life lead but Rose has a huge meter advantage.

Cody does have a lot of stuff over Rose, but I don’t agree that meter makes little difference. Having meter for EX spiral means Cody can’t safely go for anything meaty other than cr.lp which minimises the risk of her eating a fat cl.hp/cl.mp combo, and just like Rose he can’t safely finish any of his pressure strings with a special because they’re not true strings either. She needs meter for EX spiral to maximise damage and stun off any confirm or punish (and to extend the range of her combos), or for fireball fadc combos if Cody screws up with hp/EX CU or EX Zonk. Her damage potential also clearly increases significantly when she has super.

Rose might not be able to play her typical game but she’s hardly helpless. Here’s Sasaki vs. Ninomae fairly recently. Not the greatest example because Sasaki gets 3-0d but at the start of every round he approaches Rose rather than resorting to the fireball war. Why would he do that? Because he knows that it’s not in his favour to engage in the fireball war. The Rose player uses meter so efficiently here as well - basically max punishes on virtually everything. I think she only cancels into spiral on block once in the whole set. Sasaki’s clearing buffering cr.lp, which is supposedly Rose’s kryptonite, but the Rose player doesn’t take the bait by playing the typical buttonsy style.


#1010

You can OS EX CU whether Rose has meter or not.

EX rocks to blow through a fb and hit the opponent is not generally how it should be used. Frame traps, chip damage and to regain a lead during a fb war (For e.g. When you’re gradually losing a fb war EX Rocks to make the opponent jump or block similar to akuma HP Shakenetsu).

Rose’s fireballs have slow startup so reacting with EX Ruffian isn’t that difficult because you can actually react as opposed to anticipate. So once Cody gets meter she has to be more careful of when to throw them.

Not to mention that if you do decide to go in during a fb war, it’s a lot easier to jump over and land a damaging combo on Rose’s slow fb startup than the other way around.

Her EX Soul Spark isn’t amazing from long range. If you’re using PBS (which you should be) you’ll be able to focus it or block it.

Note: zonking under fireballs during a fb war is a good way to build meter

Saying Rose having meter stops meaty attacks is like saying you can never do a meaty attack on Ken because of his 3f DP, which is very unrealistic.

You can pressure her whether she has meter or not, if you anticipate an EX Soul Spiral then you can safely pressure her with a c.Lp (If you have u2 then you can OS u2 and beat all wakeup options except for EX Soul throw or focus backdash.

Cody can true string his blockstrings using medium or heavy normals to cancel into CU but either way, those situations aren’t the same.

Rarely do players blow through a blockstring into LP CU, it’s not an “obvious” untrue blockstring, maybe if they’re mashing but it’s not something they look for.

Roses, however, is obvious and good players that know the Rose matchup look for the gap in the blockstring, hence some Rose players mixing it up.

Also intercepting a blockstring with the release of a button is very different to inputting a motion. This is why it’s near impossible to react to Juri’s fireballs as opposed to Rose for example.

As for that Sasaki match, he played it terribly. He SHOULD have been throwing rocks. Ninomae didn’t even need to throw any soul sparks because there was no need.

Had he have played the fireball war, Ninomae would have had to throw fireballs which would increase the chances of landing a jump in, zonk, ex ruffian etc.

Sasaki stayed up close when that really isn’t necessary and he lost pretty badly because of it. It’s okay to switch it up from defence to offence but pure offence (in this mu) isn’t needed imo. Especially since Rose has such good mobility to move to the other side of the screen very quickly.

Also c.Lp buffer is supposed to be used just inside the opponents poke range or just outside. He didn’t use it much.

I still believe it’s a 6-4 in Cody’s favour


#1011

Shin Oni mentioned that already and I covered it in the last post.

I know. The point I’m making is by the time Cody has built up 1 bar she’s built up 3. How can that be to his advantage?

I didn’t say that at all. When she has no meter you are free to do meaty cl.hp or whatever because she has no option but to block it or backdash. There is zero risk. When she has meter she has an option that can beat yours which means you are putting yourself at risk. Of course you have to meaty sometimes even when it’s risky, but being able to discount/eliminate any of your opponents options in a given situation is invaluable.

Yes you can safely pressure with cr.lp, but your damage potential off a hit is a hell of a lot lower. The fact that she has meter is reducing your safe options for pressure.

He can create true strings with medium/heavy into CU but they’re not useful for anything except chip and you certainly wouldn’t use them during pressure. Clearly I’m talking about something like cr.lp cr.lp cr.lk xx lCU. I’m not exactly playing against high caliber players on a regular basis, but even intermediate level players frequently interrupt or focus backdash before CU can connect, especially characters with good backdashes like Rose. I played a very good Dudley the other night who punished it on reaction every time, including with Ultra. Well, either that or he had a 100% correct guess rate…

I agree, but I was never disputing that. Clearly it’s easier for Cody to interrupt Rose’s strings than vice versa, but what I’m saying is that if Rose doesn’t have meter it’s not really even a realistic option for her. (Anyone actually know how big the gap is between cr.lk xx lCU?)

I know it wasn’t the best example but I couldn’t think of any others from recent times. I agree that pure offense isn’t necessary - like I said before I can understand Cody winning the fireball war when he has the life lead, but he has to go in first to get it!

Maybe I didn’t say before but I do agree it’s in his favour.

Nice to be able to have some discussions on here again after somewhat of a lull :slight_smile:


#1012

Sorry for asking something that probably already been asked but I can’t find it anywhere. What is “perfect bad stone”, I see you mentioning it a lot packz but I haven’t seen it anywhere else. Is it a lvl 2 bad stone with minimum possible charge time?


#1013

Level 2 HP Badstone with frame perfect or near frame perfect timing. Something known before to an extent but only became viable in USF4 you can see the breakdown of the tech I made here:

As of USF4 a frame perfect level 2 HP Badstone is actually 1F faster overall than a level 1 HP Badstone. The move is 47F total with only 10F recovery it ends up being +10F on block +14F on hit and basically unpunishable. It is however quite slow to startup but with practice it can throw off opponents timings, allow you to punish, give you the ability to walk forward a bit while badstone is still on screen and setup stronger meaties.

I sent the video a couple of times to SRK but I guess they only post videos from Bafael or GroundedSF these days :stuck_out_tongue:


#1014

I don’t even send them in. Presumably the guy posting them is subscribed to my channel.


#1015

There’s a lot of stuff on Eternal’s channel that’s front page worthy honestly…


#1016

I think I’ve had 3 videos front paged, my two punish me videos and the Russian Lullaby zangief combo video.


#1017

Interesting thing I found, if Guile blocks crLK xx LP Criminal Upper EVER he has enough time to charge flash kick and punish. This includes a max spaced crLK xx LP Criminal upper where the tornado part only hits. Even if Guile crouches on the EXACT frame where the crLK would hit he has enough time to reversal flash kick and it always reaches.

If you do a raw LP Criminal Upper he also has enough time to charge flash kick if he blocks all hits while crouching.


#1018

Was testing stuff against instant overhead last night. ADN posted a video on this years ago:

Juggling into U1 now works mid-screen as well :slight_smile:


#1019

nice i didnt know about u1 in the corner. saw sasaki using u1 in the chun matchup now i can see some of its uses


#1020

That’s why I posted - it doesn’t even have to be corner any more.