Hitbox Nullifying/Invincible Properties and other Random Effects


#1

Marvel has a lot of moments of random moments where moves seem to take on weird properties in trades. Have you ever noticed sometimes assists seem to have inconsistent invincible properties? Or how some times a hit whiffs through a character as though the hit was nullified? I want to use this thread as a community effort to seek out explanations of some of Marvel’s random move properties that lead to some rather WTF scenarios that can make or break who wins a scenario. While some of these concepts are known commonly, I encourage listing all things you find as a reference. A major concept I’m seeking to break, is the theory that your point character can cause the assist to adopt new properties…including invincibility for a few frames!

Confirmed Findings:
[list]
[]Zero’s lvl 1 buster completely negates opponent hitboxes - This seems to work on many multihitting attacks too such as Haggar lariat or Cap’s charging star. This leaves them stuck in the animation but with no hitbox to harm the opponent.
[
]Spencer’s :atk:+:s: also negates hitboxes - While it needs exploring, I had a moment yesterday where some one clawed into Vergil’s spiral swords (on the blades, not his vulnerable head) and punched him in the face .
[]Cap can give assist frames of invincibility in some scenarios! - This was discovered awhile back and is further documented in the Cap thread, but it was discovered in a test case using Cap/Vergil vs Spencer’s bionic arm. In the test, Cap uses his :atk:+:s: to safely roll through Spencer’s hyper as he is invincible to all but throws. We called Vergil assist before bionic arm and we discovered that if you time the roll properly, Vergil becomes invincible and rapid slashed through Spencer unharmed. It’s a tight window and requires a bit of trial and error to reproduce, but it leads to assume their is transference of point to assist properties.
[
]Shoryuken-like assists take on invincibility if alpha counter into - …even some that normally wouldn’t have it. Morrigan and Zero are key examples of this, as they are invincible in this scenario and can fully combo.
[]Vergil has normals that destroy projectiles - s.:h:, :s:, j.:m: all can destroy low-med projectiles. (I think that’s all of them?)
[
]“Power Up” hypers dodge Hawkeye’s Gimlet - If you do a hyper like Devil Trigger, you will cause Gimlet to miss entirely.
[/list]

Speculations and Observed Randomness:
[list]
[]Jam sessions assist nullifies hitboxes - I have no been able to recreate this, but on several occasions I have had Dante seem to take on invincible properties. Later I theorized that he’s actually negating hitboxes after seeing Cap do charging star into him and Zero, only to see Cap doing the move in place but harming neither of them. I’m not sure if this is a case of point/assist transference or an off frame on jam session, but I’m convinced there is something similar to this going on.
[
]Akuma tatsu assist seems to have inconsistent invincible properties - Recently I played a match where my opponent called Akuma assist, and in response I helm breakered to punish. The helm breaker went through Akuma, allowed me to land (so i did not get beat out by the kicks in trade), then the 2nd/3rd kick hit Vergil. In test Akuma can be beat out of Akuma before the 1st hitbox, but in play there’s been several moments where punishing him leads to not hitting him in his start up. While this could be a matter of punishing too early before he becomes active…there’s been some weird cases that suggest there’s something else going on.
[]You can escape block stun on Vergil swords - Swords is a very odd attack in that gaps exist between each blade hit and can create super brief openings in neutral…however it’s generally assumed that if you block it standing, unless you push out to tip range, it’s a true blockstring. However in several cases I have been hit out of swords from a blocked standing opponent. Most notably is Morgan using c.:h:. I have no idea how this occurs. I would like to think this is a case of catching chicken blocking and somehow they reset when they fall a pixel to the ground…but it seems unlikely.
[
]Morgan can duck other Morgan fireballs - While testing a mirror in training, on several occasions Morrigan was able to go under standing qcf+:l:/:m:/:s: fireballs with no other animations. We were not able to recreate this despite seeing it occur several times. We tried down, down forward, down back, c.:h:, nothing seems to do it.
[/list]

So I’m sure you all have seen bizarre scenarios like these, so post what you know, theories on why these occur, or simply your own speculations and observations.


#2

Yeah I’ve ran into a LOT of bizarre “invincible assist” situations where I’ve tried to punish with charging star, but Cap would just push against the assist without hitting them. Makes sense if the assist takes on some of the point’s invincibility. Something else odd happened the other day that seemed pretty random. I was going against a Hawkeye who did his H move (I guess while holding a direction). I saw Hawkeye pull up his bow and then my character got thrown as I was walking towards Hawkeye to punish. I guess holdable H moves have frames where they can still throw? We tried for a bit to reproduce it but weren’t able to.


#3

I’m starting to theorize that the akuma scenario i listed might have occurred because spencer was ziplineing…but it would be bizarrely perfectly timed based on what I saw and the position of everyone. It would me the stupidly sized hitbox somehow hit the zipline at the same time it hit akuma who was clearly the first thing i should’ve hit.

But yeah…this game sometimes. I can’t tell you how much i hate dante jam session. That thing is retarded to punish for some reason, I’m still shocked when i beat him out in start up, because i fully expect him to gain capt. Commando properties out of no where.


#4

Trish trap eats up pipe and footdive.

Trish sucks tho.


#5

Just those or all hit boxes? Wondering if you can do something like a meat j.:m: with Doom and have it save doom but lose your attack.


#6

Peekaboo negates most normals with it’s hitbox. The exceptions being certain multi hitting attacks, in this case only the first hit of the multi hitting normal will be negated, but oddly enough it negates all of shell kick . This does NOT apply to projectiles though. Which sucks because that would be awesome. I think against projectiles it has 1 durability point. Capcom actually made a special like this ridiculously balanced, yay. This is the same for both the point and assist versions of Peekaboo.