Hitbox Videos: Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix

Chun Li:
Fei Long:

NICE!! Forget the pause button, YOU are my new best friend. LOL Where’s Zangief’s far st.Short?

Just want to say thanks in advance for this thread. It’s much needed since I can barely see where the blue and red boxes are in some of the moves in Training Mode.

Sweet!!! Chun please :smiley:

Fei long next

You, sir, are a genius! A resource like this was sorely needed. You done did good, kid! :slight_smile:

Good shit. Can’t wait for Honda and Rog!

I never had a problem with hitbox mode, cause I cool like that. But a couple of my friends hate it cause its so fast, good job yo.

Added: Blanka, Fei Long, E.Honda

It’s there. 00:11

(It is me?)

I would like to call attention to Honda’s HH Slap. Hit boxes on them are not any differnt than ST. IF thay are, I can’t see it. (I am total open to the idea that I over looked something).

From Sirlin.net:

“Strong and fierce versions of hundred hands have much lower priority and all versions do a little less damage.”

The hit boxes look just the same as ST. (Yoga Book Hyper)

Thoughts/ Input anyone?

I still don’t understand hitboxes and their relation to priority. Every thread on this subject leaves me with inconclusive evidence of who wins out. I think hitbox size is only part of the calculations. There has to be some “magic number” also assigned to that hitbox for it to help factor what beats what (three beats two, Ace beats Jack, etc).

Anyway, I wanted to say thanks for the Fei Long video, it’s much easier to see it playing in a slower speed with the ability to pause it. I’ve gotten a much better understanding of why Fei gets hit with some of his moves.

Perhaps it should be mentioned that these hitbox displays are all “pre”-patch. Not suggesting they will change post-patch, but I like to play it safe :wonder:

Okay, I’m not entirely certain, so take this with a grain of salt. But to my understanding, hitbox and priority are two different values. The value of a hitbox is something you can actually see with the proper tools (Hitbox viewer, hex editor, etc). The hitbox is what determines the behavior of the attack that you see in game. Priority is another value in it’s entirety. Where if a priority value of one attack has a larger value than another attack, higher priority wins. This cannot be seen by a hitbox viewer.

Can anybody verify my statement to be true or false? :xeye:

Pretty sure that priority is a way to facilitate conversations about hitboxes. In other words, when a move has high priority, that means that the hitbox is placed in such a way that it’s hard to hit someone when they attack with a certain move.

Sigh … here is a very very rough, dirty, messy, and quick attempt to explain hitboxes. If no one can provide me to a link that better describes hitboxes, then I’ll make that another project - after I finish going through all the characters. Sorry it’s such a long read, I didn’t have time to write less.

Let’s see if I can help clarify the concept of hitboxes.

As you may know already, the RED represents the attacking area. The BLUE area represents the vulnerable area where you can get hit. Here’s an example from Hyper Fighting (not Super Turbo):


That red box is Zangief’s knee attack. That’s the area that will actually hit the opponent. The blue area is where you can hit Zangief.

Thus, to successfully hit someone, your red area has to touch their blue area.

Now, let’s talk about “Priority.” Priority is a general term that describes a move’s ability (or likelihood) to hit (or trade) with the opponents attack. So for example, in a fight between Zangief vs Zangief, if one did crouching roundhouse, and the other did crouching short at the same time, at maximum distance, the one with crouching roundhouse will always win. The crouching roundhouse has “higher priority.” Now let’s talk about the hitboxes in action here. The c.roundhouse has a large red area that extends beyond the blue area. Whereas the c.short has a blue area that extends beyond the red. When they trade at max distance, the c.roundhouse will touch the blue of the c.short. The c.short’s red area never even touches the blue area of the c.roundhouse.

Here’s another example (from HF):

As you can see they have the same red area, but Ken’s blue area is different than Ryu’s. Ken’s blue doesn’t overlap the red as much, thus making him less vulnerable to the opponent’s attack. This example shows that Ken has a “higher priority” jumping fierce than Ryu’s.

That’s the basics of understanding hitboxes.

The term “Priority” is general and actually relative. A move that has “high priority” against one character may actually have “lower priority” against another.

But there’s something definitely lacking here when you talk about “Priority.” And that’s Time.

All this time we’ve been talking about attacks made up of blue and red boxes, but we never talked about timing. That’s where frame counts come into play. Each move has start up frames, active frames, and recovery frames. Oh gosh, this is quickly becoming complicated. So anyways if you don’t know about the concept of frames look here (http://virtuafighter.com/view.php?section=vf4&file=vf4ft_frames_guide.html). The important thing to note is that timing also plays a role in “priority.”

In a match between Chun Li vs Ryu for example. If both were trying to kick each other, and let’s say for example that Chun Li has a faster kick, then she would hit Ryu first (assuming she has less start up frames). In this case, we don’t even need to talk about hitboxes because it never even got to that point.

Thus “Priority” is a generalized term that refers to hitboxes and timing. But is there more to this? Oh hells yeah.

Consider this example:
This is Zangief’s standing roundhouse from HF. As you can see, they trade hits. But if one person does it first, and the second does it a fraction of a moment later, the later one can cleanly hit the first. Haha. Both move have the same start/active/recover frames, both have the same hitboxes, but the timing of when you do the move made all the difference.

Well, what about trading hits? Zangief’s PPP in HDR has a blue area the overlaps his red at the top. And since blanka’s jumping attacks has large red areas that are far away from blue areas, does this mean blanka can jump attack him for free every time? Well no. No because of timing. If Zangief does PPP early to antiair, yes Zangief will get hit. But if Zangief crouches and does PPP at the last moment, his attack box will activate on top of Blanka’s blue area. Likewise blanka’s red will be on Zangief’s blue, thus resulting in a trade.

As you can see, the term “Priority” is actually very complex. Which is why I never liked using that term. It’s so broad and generalized. Instead of saying something like “Ryu’s crouching MP has high priority,” I’d much rather prefer saying things like, “Ryu’s crouch MP beats his/her (insert move here).”

I don’t have the Yoga book with me at the moment.

But just looking at the videos, Honda’s MP & HP do have “lower priority”.
Look at the blue area. In MP & HP versions, they extend to his wrist.
In the LP version the blue is further back at his forearm.

Ceteris Paribus, less blue box over-lap on red box equates to better priority.

I.E. Akuma’s jump fw. RH versus Ryu’s jump fw. RH.

Wow… Really… My eyes… are jacked. I can’t beleive I miseed that. Thanks. :grin:

Still doesn’r seem like MUCH lower priority to me…:bluu:

A few pixels here and there can make all the difference.

Take Zangief’s c.HP for example. Sirlin made the slightest adjustment to it and now you can use it against Vega’s wall dive.

Actually, there is no such thing as a “priority value”. Priority is determined SOLELY based on hit boxes. I think the easiest way to describe priority from the hitbox view point is that high priority moves are, in the most general of ways to put it, moves with the LEAST amount of red and blue box overlap, meaning that the move can hit other things easily but have a hard time getting hit by other moves. See Bison’s Jab Psycho Crusher as a good example.

However, I just want to note that saying “priority value” doesn’t exist isn’t entirely true. They DID exist… but only in ONE Street Fighter game: Alpha 3. That game, moves had priority values, and when moves “traded”, occasionally the game would do almost like a saving roll or something, and if it came out right, the move with the higher priority would just win. That’s indicated by when you flash red when you hit the opponent. That means you SHOULD have traded had it been any other SF game, but since it’s Alpha 3, you win because you used a higher priority move and the game decided to let you win that time.

Priority values also exist in other non Capcom Fighting Games such as Guilty Gear. But in ST, there isn’t any such thing.

  • James

Somebody should create a site combining RC’s videos and NKI’s frame data site. Have like a “frame counter” that counts the frames of every normal, special, super, blockstun, hitstun, walking, empty jumps, etc. EVERYTHING, all while being able to view the action in motion and being able to pause at any frame, rewind, etc. That would be really helpful to the Remix and ST community. I would do it myself, but I don’t have the tech know-how to pull it off.