Holding Back


#1

Is Holding Back a good idea to a certain degree? I’m been tryin to get folks to learn a few of the games I found. I know a lot of ppl down where I am, and I feel like I can break the mold to get these dudes to learn fighting games. I know if I give it my all I think they will lose morality and motivation. So do you think I could explain the games to them like im a novice, but then when I feel that they are showing promise and they have will. Cut loose on them? The games are CvS2, 3S, Garou, LB2, MvC2, KOF2K2 and GGXX. I showed them match vids, no strats fuck that i never used em, tier lists < this might of been a bad move im not sure, and thats about it. I even showed them vids of guys from tourneys just having a good time, and just falling out. So what should I do to get them/keep them interested? Altogether its about 22 ppl im tryin to teach.


#2

o_o hold back.

bronson.


#3

Holding back doesn’t work when you’re conciously thinking about it. (FUCK! I KNOW I was holding back!>_<) Other than that, it’s flawless.


#4

No, I need to know what Im doin’ wrong now. Fuck me learnin’ it a month a 2 from now.


#5

o. m. f. g. r u serious? av o_o


#6

Holding back is good.


#7

HOLD BACK.

Bronson once told me this. It has improved my gaming, my erection size and my 40 yard dash.


#8

fuck hold back
its all bout downback.


#9

Who here was eased into taking fighters seriously by a person that held back?


#10

wel, if the people you’re teaching have ZERO fighting game experience, then yeah, hold back so that they understand how to play the game.

imagine if you didn’t know anything about MvC2. and one of your buddies tried to “teach” you by unleashing MSP at full throttle on you. not fun, and i doubt you would learn anything.


#11

hold back.


#12

my advice is to go into training mode, set the dummy to “Human”, and make sure super meter is at MAX (or Infinity), and turn on the Attack Data.

That way, you can show your friends the BnB combos (using meter if necessary), and show them why (using the Attack Data).

like, if you’re teaching them how to play Ken in 3S, make sure they understand how to do all of his non-meter BnBs, metered BnBs, and WHEN to do it (like, after a blocked super, a parried sweep, etc).

hold back, and give them time to adjust.


#13

I really don’t buy or sell the whole “I was holding back” crap.

I ask defeated foes or successfull villians = “If your sh!t’s so good, why don’t you just use it and make ME look stupid?”

Instead, you get your ass kicked or not, then you pretend that it’s a DragonBall Z episode and come up with such an unoiriginal line, then, more sh!t before you even reach the toilet! Stop being dishonest or just go home.

Crap like that can really turn off people from this game.

Napoleon Hill said it best:

Just do what you do…[quiche][/quiche]

…that went well.


#14

depends…

what i do when teaching MvC2 / 3S…

round 1: full out… if i’m teaching MvC2, i use mag / sent / cyclops and go full out… third strike, scrubby ass genai jin combos or makoto 100% stun combo…

round 2: same thing, but i show them what they did wrong…

now… in mvc2 and not so much in 3S, i make them pick team scrub… and i use spiderman / venom / doom… i still win, but this establishes two things.

tiers AND player skill are important… where i typically can come near to or get a perfect in mvc2 on a scrub with a magneto based team, i don’t do so hot with spiderman / venom / doom against cable… spiderman can’t do shit against hp xx scimitar, which is a fairly simple thing to execute… especially not with sentinel drones on your ass…

after the whole “tiers do exist” comes up… i begin to slowly incorporate them into things in the following order…
prelim: team dynamics

  1. blocking
  2. screen control
  3. getting a hit
  4. running and battery
  5. baiting
  6. let them go figure some combos out
  7. gradually fight them harder and harder…

now, i’ve only taught two people, and neither are spectacular, but they play a shitload better than when i first met them… the one dude has a nicer storm than i do, so i was impressed… but his ability to react and finish a combo sucks… so him able to do some crazy combos and resets means nothing if it’s only in training mode… i’m his only competition.


#15

I don’t see how beating the shit out of people will make them want to learn. Honestly, a lot of cowards exist in every area and if you live in a place where your skill is what gets you competition, I envy you. Otherwise, to keep that quarter being fed into the machine more than once every half an hour, you have to know when to go easy on your competition. Here we have best of 5 set on most of our machines for VS so usually I go crazy for a round to see how good the opponent is. If I flat out beat them with a hit or less I’ll take it easier the 2nd round. Sometimes you need to give people the chance to experience more then getting beaten down in a match. If they can amount an offense then that’s good. If they’re mashing, I’ll just flat out kill them, but if they’re actually showing any signs of control and even 2 hit combos, I’ll give them a chance to learn.

HOLD BACK if you are much better then your opponent. If you know you can beat them and you have no reason to humiliate them, I don’t see any reason to do that. Though I hate the term, “it’s just a game” is important to remember since new players don’t think like us and mercy to them comes as a positive sign and not a negative one. For the people who THINK they’re all that, those are the ones you can kill off without holding back. I know people who honestly suck at the game, but every week I see them come back to play and I always give them mercy rounds and train them with the same situations until they can beat it.

I myself find that mercy is useless and I’d rather keep getting beat on if I can afford it. Then again, I’m at the level where I can learn from getting my ass beat down hard. Beginners don’t know enough to understand what they’re doing is wrong and they can’t fix it. They just think, “DAMN I got hit, gotta hit you back” no matter how many times you hit them, they’ll just think “CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP”. You want to break that mentality before you beat the shit out of them to teach them. I went through that phase and now I’m excited whenever a good player is on the machine. I’ll get my ass kicked just because I enjoy playing the game against a better player then me, but I had to get away from calling certain tactics cheap. All I have to do now is convince myself that a run away (or any style) Chun Li isn’t cheap and I’ll be in heavenly bliss…


#16

holding back is an artform. it basically means defense is the way to go. if they cant get in on you, you have no reasn to fear anything. it works with a lot of fighting games.

bronson.


#17

Holding back works and should be used. When new people try out a game and you walk up and beast the shit out of them they will not want to play anymore. If you go semi-easy and show them how to play then you will have people to play against in the future. I have learned this lesson all too well. Late


#18

yeah, i highly doubt that if you go into psycho beast mode with Urien against someone who still has trouble parrying an EX fireball, that they’ll want to go another 12 rounds.

go semi-easy on them, while making it KNOWN that you are not playing at MAX strength, and show them shit. show and tell why combo A would be used over combo B. don’t just do a 100% life combo, and ask them if they learned anything.


#19

welp thats exactly my point. im not saying that im the shit bcuz i kno that if i go to any major tourneys. 99.5 % says im gonna get tossed around by the loser racket players easily. im just saying that (this is for other posts when I say this) i know the basics of just about every fighter game. And I have evolved beyond the BbB’s, knowledge of frame advantage, etc. I just feel like i’ll never see to much of the fighting scene down here, and it would do my soul good to have a few…no scratch that shit a busload of great matches everytime my boys get together. I wanna see the fg scene flourish even just a lil bit one block or house at a time. Gamecrazy had a 3S tourney not too long ago, and I missed that shit. over 30 something ppl came. I was so pissed cuz i did not expect that. so i know its possible.


#20

It depends on the person. I know a guy that I play with at work (yes my job rocks) and he can beast me in Sam Sho 2. But when it comes to 3S he has problems just getting Shoto moves to come out. He gets hella serious if he looses, but he insists that I play him straight. You should see his face its hilarious. He dosen’t want me to teach him too much either. Says he’d rather learn on his own, so I don’t tell him much besides how to do certain moves, how to parry and EX and stuff like that. He’s learning. I still beast him 100% with Urien, but he’s learning to punish the tackle when I don’t have meter. Different people, different learning styles. :tup: