Honda AE changes

e-honda

#1

So I picked up the mook and figured I’d share the numerics with you guys. Super version is on the left, ae version is on the right. Frame data is listed as advantage on block followed by advantage on hit.

Frame advantage changes:
[LIST]
[]Close Roundhouse: +1 +4 to +3 +6
[
]far fierce: -2 +0 to -2 +2
[]fierce hhs: +6 +10 to +3 +10
[/LIST]
Damage changes:
[LIST]
[
]jump in fierce: 120 dmg to 100 dmg
[*]Max range stand fierce: 120 dmg to 80 dmg
[/LIST]

Oicho Throw:
[LIST]
[]jab 180 dmg to 160 dmb
[
]strong 190 dmg to 170 dmg
[]fierce 200 dmg to180 dmg
[
]ex damage remained 190
[/LIST]

headbutts:
[LIST]
[]jab 130 dmg 130 [120] dmg
[
]strong 140 dmg 140 [130] dmg
[]fierce 160 dmg 160 [140] dmg
[
]ex 160 dmg 160 [140] dmg
[/LIST]
hhs per hit:
[LIST]
[]jab 20 dmg, 30 dmg
[
]strong 20 dmg, 30 dmg
[]fierce 20 dmg, 15 dmg
[/LIST]
hhs renda bubun (mashed continuation):
[LIST]
[
]20 dmg in super,
[]high, mid 30 dmg, fierce 15 dmg in ae
[/LIST]
[INDENT=1]HHS total dmg:[/INDENT]
[LIST]
[
]jab 80 dmg, 90 dmg
[]strong 100 dmg, 120 dmg
[
]fierce 140 dmg, 105 dmg
[/LIST]
U2 changes:
[LIST]
[]range: .9, 1.16
[
]startup: 1+0, 0+1
[/LIST]
I’ve only played AE 3 times so I don’t have too much to add. Interesting to note is the buff to close stand roundhouse. I don’t know if the pushback is any different, but you could only (to my knowledge) link crouch jab on Abel, Vega, and Chun in super. Now perhaps it’ll work as say, a big punish on anyone.

A few damage comparisons:
[INDENT=1]jab xx fierce hands, roundhouse:[/INDENT]
[LIST]
[]super 260
[
]ae 225
[/LIST]
[INDENT=1]jab xx strong hands, roundhouse[/INDENT]
[LIST]
[]super: 220
[
]ae: 240
[/LIST]
[INDENT=1]jab xx fierce hands, low forward xx fierce headbutt:[/INDENT]
[LIST]
[]super: 356 dmg
[
]super ae: 307 dmg
[/LIST]
[INDENT=1]jab xx strong hands, jab xx ex butt drop[/INDENT]
[LIST]
[]super: 278
[
]super ae: 318
[/LIST]
With fierce hands nerfed, strong hands into roundhouse may be the new simple bnb. Honda had a 4f link from fierce hands, but only has a 2f link from strong. It’s tighter now, but it’s still quite doable. Strong hands gives 50 less meter than fierce hands, so meter gain may be slightly more problematic with this combo.


#2

thanks for the post, I had about 20 minutes with an AE cab to myself last night and, jabxxhands HK does horrible damage now - there’s still a lot to learn, and no jab HB AA is really annoying.

I’m not sure about MP hands since you generally get less hits off them - its something like 4 hits with MP hands and 7 with HP, so HP might possibly still be better or maybe only slightly worse. unless something was changed which gives MP hands as many hits as HP.

CS.HK doesn’t seem all that useful, IIRC you can already link a low jab off of it but it pushes you back so far you can’t do much with it. unless they decreased pushback its mostly useless I’d imagine.

I’ve only played AE maybe 6 times and mostly I’m playing boxer now until I can get a long sit down in training mode to decide whether or not honda is worth it. next time no one is at UFO I’ll be testing most if not all of these.

edit: I still think the BNB on a lot of characters will end up being jewelman’s HP hands linked into EX hands, low jab, hands or whatever - that or we’re all going to have to start doing headbutt combos :confused:


#3

I was talking about going to UFO with Joe tomorrow. If we go I’ll test close roundhouse and see if it’s useful on most characters or not. In super, versus chun, abel, and vega (potentially more) you can link low jab xx fierce hands. I don’t think you can link after the hands because of spacing, but super is a new game. Perhaps there’s less pushback?

Ex hands is still a non-plinkable 1f. I don’t think bnbs will include it for the majority of players.

If my math is right, low jab xx fierce hands, ex hands, low jab xx fierce hands, roundhouse does 398 damage. jab xx strong hands, jab xx ex buttdrop does 318. 80 more points of damage for a much harder combo. Both take 25% meter, Jewelman’s builds a bit more than mine. If you’re comfortable with the 1f, be my guest. I don’t even know if jab, strong hands, jab, ex butt works on everyone. I found the combo but it was low damage so I didn’t bother to check.

edit, bah, I should learn how many hits my character’s moves are.


#4

well, so far testing on console version of super, MP hands is only 4 hits and HP is 7

so MP hands = 120 - HP = 105 - I guess MP hands is better if you’re close - also if your frame advantage is correct it even gives +1 more frame than fierce hands now edit: (on block)

also I can confirm the combo into EX buttflop doesn’t work on everyone and is a little range specific even on the characters it does work on.


#5

Ha, I have no idea why I thought it did 5 hits. The mook even says 3 hits, 4 hits for jab and strong hands. I’ll change first post to reflect this.


#6

so jab strong hhs RH works? hmmmmm and jab hhs into ex hhs is 1f? it cant be it feels so easy now… the characters it works on you guys still dont know but that will change :slight_smile:

ya hhs into ex hhs is not a 1f link… the cr. jab hhs after is lol
jab strong hhs RH is @$$ in super but its great in AE???


#7

Great is an interesting word, more like “20 less damage for a tighter link” compared to the combo you did in super. Also the meter gain is a good deal less. But yeah, still 2f link from hands to ex hands.

I like when you did that during evo online vs that Abel and James Chen was like “Oh, he messed up.” Who’s ever heard of Honda messing up ex hands while walking forward?


#8

lmao ya i was watching the stream so after the whole debacle i just did a hhs RH to get a reaction


#9

Had very little time to test as traffic didn’t permit me to get to the arcade early, but it Seems like roundhouse’s pushback isn’t decreased at all. I guess bad luck for Vega, Chun, Abel, maybe more (I’ll test later) but the rest of the cast has nothing new to fear from close roundhouse.


#10

Man 185 damage for Jab xx Hp HHS- RH does only 185… that doesn’t make any sense. So the jab does 40, the HHS does 105 and the RH does 40???, REALLY 40.

Has the movement forwards on strong hands been increased at all? because in super u need to be basically on top of them to get all of strong hands to connect son u can do the RH. Going to be god awful for footsie punish. Plus Strong hands just looks and sounds so god damn stupid, i don’t wanna start doing that.

Man i hope this changes somehow or your wrong, absolutely no reason fierce HHS - Rh should do less than 200.


#11

O.K i call bullshit on this.

If you open this video [media=youtube]Be4c9zsKWE4]YouTube - SSF4 AE: Mike Ross [Honda] vs Josiue [Fei[/media] and pause it at 1:18.

The sequence of moves Mike has just done at the start of the second round is LK buttslam hitting on the way up followed by jb xx Hp HHS - Rh which should be 265 damage (80 + 185) if the Numbers posted in this thread are correct.

If you now go into training mode (using Fei’s name on Player 1 side as your comparison) in console SSF4 and get the Honda dummy to recreate that exact sequence of moves there is no possibility the difference in the life bars is 75 damage (340 ssf4 - 265 AE) which is what it would need to be for Retekin to be correct that jb xx Hp HHs - Rh does only 185 damage.

If you stay now get the Honda dummy to do Fierce HB followed by RH which in Super is 260 so approx the same 265 Retikin said Lk Buttslam - JB - Hp HHS- Rh is does in AE, u can see its nowhere near the same.

Unless they completely redesigned the the Character Names in relation to the life bars in AE those numbers are wrong.

Update: If get the Honda dummy to do Fierce Oicho followed by standing Hp (200+120) the damage looks exactly the same as in the video. I would guess that yes each slap in Fierce HHS does now does 15 damage but the Rh on the end still does 80 so damage would be 225 not 185.

Tell me why I’m wrong.


#12

Ha, didn’t notice that, does 225. My arithmetic is apparently way off. Fixing that.

Roundhouse didn’t change damage, it still does 100 dmg non scaled. Jab xx fierce hands, round house does:
40 dmg + 105 dmg + 100*.8 (80% scaled damage for third hit), so 225.

Also, I tested strong hands a bit at the arcade, forward movement seems to be the same. I was able to link roundhouse in matches, but I wasn’t hitting dudes standing to try to go for low jab ex buttdrop. I’m pretty inaccurate with strong hands, however. I kept messing up getting either nothing, ex hands, or fierce hands. That’s on my end though, not the game.


#13

Yeah that makes way more sense, 185 would have been an unbelievable nerf.


#14

Yeah, I just left out the jab. I don’t exactly have a training mode over here so it’s all just theory work. Also, nearest AE cabinet is like 200 miles away, so I’ve only played it like 4 times.


#15

i’ll sacrifice the 15 damage for more meter and to keep doing jab heavy hhs…sounds like hhs into hhs doesnt do the same damage as it used to with jab hhs RH…

If these new combos i’ve found work in AE i highly suggest you all learn them


#16

Pretty sure you can’t connect the st. rh after the 2nd fierce hands.


#17

ya no st rh after cr jab hhs ex hhs cr jab hhs its max damage is 380… least amount is 370-376…

most damage with a jumpin is 490…speaking of which whats the new damage on neutral jump roundhouse…(this move beats sims st RH)


#18

Stayed the same. I posted all the changes. Sorry it took me a bit to respond.


#19

How much damage does each hit of ex hands do?


#20

umm, after all there is a chance that we will be able to pick Super or AE versions of characters. There is any reason to pick AE Honda?