thanks for that footsy, works a charm!
I went to DBQ BBQ the other weekend. I had only been to a few tournaments previously, and this was the first one that I did fairly well in.
I had a great round of Honda Dic matches against NKI that I learned an immense amount from. Which I’d like to break down and talk about but I’ll do that later, since none of them were taped. There are some matches that you can watch though and tell me what you think.
There were some situations that I ran into that I wasn’t really sure how to handle. I’ve watched them a lot and have a pretty good idea of what I could have done different or things to try but the more input I could get the better.
I’m not sure quite what I was trying to do with that first buttsmash.
At about 0:20 I was trying to jab headbutt when she was flipping over me. I guess that probably isn’t a good idea since I’d loose my charge. I’m not sure what the hitbox for the headbutt is either whether it would hit behind me or not. I figure the best option is to just try to block and oichio when she lands.
I got kind of greedy going for a third throw in the corner, and I was half expecting the super, would a buttsmash on wake up been my only/best option to avoid it?
I had some timing issues in the second match and wasn’t sure quite what to do when she was flipping over me again at the end.
The second match he played a more defensive and gave me a little harder time. I still could have come out on top though if I had made a few better choices and was just more familiar with what to do in certain situations I think.
I’d be happy for your input.
I’m no expert, but I can offer some observations:
Above all else, STORE YOUR OICHO whenever possible! A good place for this is in video 2, 0:40-0:43 seconds. Once Chun countered your jump in attempt, she moved in for some c.jabs. You have to do the stored oicho motion in the air and hold db. Since she was so close, you could’ve used your stored oicho and gained control of the match. Another good place you couldve used this is at about 1:00 in video 1. You sumo splashed and landed just short of hitting her, but close enough to where you could’ve used stored oicho and taken over the match
Another things to work on is crossing up with a belly flop-> stored oicho. Again, unless Chun is charging down, she has no reliable anti air if shes on the ground and you’re about to attack from the air. She has up kicks, but if you can get in a postiion where she isnt charging down, then bellyflop->stored oicho -> c.jab->oicho her to death.
EDIT: Ok, maybe she does have a reliable anti-air with s.mk or s.rh. Anybody want to confirm this?
I’m not sure if this is possible, but in the last seconds of match 2, when she had you in the corner, and was hitting you several times when you were blocking, you might have been able to interrupt those with a medium sumo splash, kinda like ryu would with a DP.
For the flip kick, I would just hold downback and block it. Then maybe medium sumo splash/oicho/c.jab mixup depending on your gut reaction.
Dont jump over her fireballs, but block them instead. Even though it still pushes you away, she cant do them forever. Keits knew that because of Honda’s big ass hitbox, it’d be easier to hit you with them. Honda seems to have to jump earlier to avoid them. Knowing this, Keits buffered the lightning legs in the fireball recovery animation, and it worked well. If she does throw fireballs for what seems like forever, then shes getting predictable and you can bellyflop -> stored oicho her.
If you must jump, try to make it so that either your j.mk/j.rh hits her so that you can gain a little more hang time and hopefully clear the fireball, or, to down lk to reduce your hitbox. Store the oicho throw as well and if you see an opportunity, use it.
If you jump at an enemy but when you land you arent close enough to do stored oicho, and you anticipate this (through practice), keep tapping mp so when you land, you can do the moving HHS and push her back some.
Hope this helps
Ok, now I have 2 questions; both involve cross ups:
Lets say Honda is on the left, opponent is on the right. When honda crosses up someone with d.mk (bellyflop), he can store the oicho, but initially he is facing right. But, when he lands, now he is facing left.
So my question is this: When do you start storing the oicho? When is is still facing right, or when you switch directions and face left? When do you exceute it as well? Does negative edging help any?
Posted by ehonda
crossing honda up is suicide due to the ochio. block then oichio. if it misses you block.
Similar question, except now someone is crossing up honda. When do you store the oicho? While honda is facing right? or when honda turns around and is facing left? When do you excecute it? Does negative edging help any?
From the right range forward buttsmash can counter almost anything Chun does, including her Super if you time it right. But if she fakes you out and you whiff it you will get punished.
I always do the Ochio in the direction that Honda will be facing AFTER the cross-up. That has always worked for me. Kind of like if someone crosses you up while your charging for a headbutt in one direction if you flip your joystick to the other side at the same time Honda turns around (goes from facing left to facing right for example), then you’ll keep your charge.
And you should always negative edge the Ochio, I now almost always negative edge all three punch buttons then release them one after the other (kinda like negative edge and piano at the same time, thanks for that tip Ultradavid!). That way you’ll just end up blocking if you mess up or they reversal.
Random awesomeness: on GGPO the other day with a pretty cool dude named Top-Ninja. While he was playing as Guile, and he air threw me out of a butt splash. I thought it was pretty frickin cool.
Regarding Honda’s headbutt, which characters have a rapid fire normal (standing or crouching jabs or shorts, I guess) that will beat it? Trade with it?
Which characters are able to punish the headbutt on block? With what?
I might be misreading this, but are you going directly from crossover d.MK straight into Oochio? If so I would recommend doing crossover d.MK, c.LK > Oochio instead as this forces a crouch block which in turn reduces the chances of being reversal thrown after the crossover - going directly from d.MK into Oochio isn’t a good idea overall imo since the opponent is at the advantage defensively.
Store after he has turned around and certainly use negative edge, i’d recommend aiming to Oochio after the inital crossover has been blocked since good players will use a decent block string to push you out of Oochio range, however, if they botch the transition from crossover into the combo attempt, you’ll pull them right out of it.
Hope that helps.
Everyone can hit him out of or trade with the headbutt, it’s not hard. Even characters without a rapid fire normal can do it, like Dhalsim does with down-back jab or Blanka with standing short. Some characters don’t need to do this, but everyone can.
And nobody can punish the headbutt on block, it’s safe. The only time you can get hit after it is if you headbutt over a low tiger shot, hit Sagat, and then as you recover fall on top of the low tiger shot.
Gotcha. Thanks a ton for the answer, dude!
A good thing that most characters can use against the headbutt is to jump back into the corner when you feel that one is coming. When honda reaches the corner after doing a torpedo, he will immediately go into the ending animation of the move wich lasts 25 frames. By this time you are right above him (since you jumped back) and have plenty of time to land a fat combo on your way down. Of course don’t get too predictable and start jumping back non stop, it’s way more effective if used from time to time. The good thing is that the honda player will now think twice before doing a torpedo. And if he doesn’t it’s all good too, free combos for you !
I’ve been playing O.Honda recently, and I have to say that he is a very fun character. I suggest that people give him a try. He plays quite a bit different from ST Honda. You can play a bit more offensively because the chop (which is a great anti-air) is available at all times.
Here’s a video that might add some motivation [media=youtube]kZNVYnpBuow[/media]
This is O.Honda vs CE Guile (Muteki!)
If O Honda had N Honda’s strong and fierce slaps, better jumping short and butt slam hit boxes, and controllable jumping fierce, in other words, if he had N Honda’s better ways of getting in, he’d be a really good character (and he could use N Honda’s crossup jumping roundhouse. Love his cancelable standing/crouching jab, standing kick sweeps, crouching fierce sweep, standing fierce chop, and walking jab slaps. Unfortunately, on the characters Honda wants to get in on, he’s definitely worse than N Honda. I think he’s at least as good and in some cases better than N Honda against the characters Honda wants to keep out or play zoning games with, though. Basically, N Honda is better for getting in, O Honda is at least as good or better at keeping out.
Yeah, I understand that N. Honda is better, but O. Honda isn’t bad either and is quite fun to use. I like both.
Not bad overall at all, but he does lose to keepaway characters worse than N Honda. I like using him too, and I hope Remixed Honda has elements of both O and N Honda in him.
Ok, I know this is a stupid question, but anyways. How do I beat Blanka’s j.LK (and j.MK?)? I dunno if it’s because my timing is off, but my torpedoes get beaten every single time. Same with MK buttslams. Tried jumping Jab, which seems to be good at mid-screen situations, but not near the corner.
I have the same problem against every Blanka I fight. Please someone help this scrub
Last-minute jab headbutt. Not so last-minute that Blanka gets to land first, but time it so that you’ll hit him as late as you can and you’ll beat his jump-ins every time. If you’re talking about crossup jumping short, you should probably just block, but if you really wanna get out then go for a roundhouse buttslam.
So it’s my timing then. I’ll try to tune-up my headbutt timing. Thanks.
Who are Honda’s worst matchups? In my short ST experience, I find that shotos/Sagat that know how to zone and SRK on reaction (most of the time anyway) are my main weaknesses. But then again, anyone who can SRK on reaction is a really good player anyway. I know that Deejay is supposed to be a big anti-honda, but I guess I haven’t really run into a super DJ yet.
In HF, Guile and Chun were huge counter Honda picks, but both seem more managable to me in ST.
I’d say his worst matchups are DeeJay, Ryu, and O Ken, and then N Ken, Chun, and Guile after that. I don’t think O Sagat is that bad a matchup for him, to be honest. I think he loses to O Sagat, but I think it’s like 4-6, although I wouldn’t object too seriously to putting O Sagat at around the same difficulty as Guile.
DeeJay’s probably his worst matchup. The maxout is really hard to get over because it’s so wide, comes out so fast, and can be made either really slow or really fast, and when you do get past it DeeJay has a hundred attacks that all seem pretty much tailor made to beat Honda’s jump-ins and buttslams.
I haven’t really had much O.Sagat matchup experience. Every time I find a guy who plays him I usually beat him pretty good, but seeing pro O.Sagat usage from Evo makes me realize that when used right Honda is definitely at a disadvantage.
I’ve also been told that when used right, DJ’s Maxout->Slide is pretty much unbeatable if timed right. I’ve never played against someone who could do it to me without fail (and once I get in, it is usually over), but I know it’s easy to people who play the match a lot.
Is there any way to reliably ochio out of balrog throw traps?