Honda thread


I’ve been playing O.Honda recently, and I have to say that he is a very fun character. I suggest that people give him a try. He plays quite a bit different from ST Honda. You can play a bit more offensively because the chop (which is a great anti-air) is available at all times.

Here’s a video that might add some motivation [media=youtube]kZNVYnpBuow[/media]

This is O.Honda vs CE Guile (Muteki!)


If O Honda had N Honda’s strong and fierce slaps, better jumping short and butt slam hit boxes, and controllable jumping fierce, in other words, if he had N Honda’s better ways of getting in, he’d be a really good character (and he could use N Honda’s crossup jumping roundhouse. Love his cancelable standing/crouching jab, standing kick sweeps, crouching fierce sweep, standing fierce chop, and walking jab slaps. Unfortunately, on the characters Honda wants to get in on, he’s definitely worse than N Honda. I think he’s at least as good and in some cases better than N Honda against the characters Honda wants to keep out or play zoning games with, though. Basically, N Honda is better for getting in, O Honda is at least as good or better at keeping out.


Yeah, I understand that N. Honda is better, but O. Honda isn’t bad either and is quite fun to use. I like both.


Not bad overall at all, but he does lose to keepaway characters worse than N Honda. I like using him too, and I hope Remixed Honda has elements of both O and N Honda in him.


Ok, I know this is a stupid question, but anyways. How do I beat Blanka’s j.LK (and j.MK?)? I dunno if it’s because my timing is off, but my torpedoes get beaten every single time. Same with MK buttslams. Tried jumping Jab, which seems to be good at mid-screen situations, but not near the corner.

I have the same problem against every Blanka I fight. Please someone help this scrub :frowning:


Last-minute jab headbutt. Not so last-minute that Blanka gets to land first, but time it so that you’ll hit him as late as you can and you’ll beat his jump-ins every time. If you’re talking about crossup jumping short, you should probably just block, but if you really wanna get out then go for a roundhouse buttslam.


So it’s my timing then. I’ll try to tune-up my headbutt timing. Thanks.


Who are Honda’s worst matchups? In my short ST experience, I find that shotos/Sagat that know how to zone and SRK on reaction (most of the time anyway) are my main weaknesses. But then again, anyone who can SRK on reaction is a really good player anyway. I know that Deejay is supposed to be a big anti-honda, but I guess I haven’t really run into a super DJ yet.

In HF, Guile and Chun were huge counter Honda picks, but both seem more managable to me in ST.


I’d say his worst matchups are DeeJay, Ryu, and O Ken, and then N Ken, Chun, and Guile after that. I don’t think O Sagat is that bad a matchup for him, to be honest. I think he loses to O Sagat, but I think it’s like 4-6, although I wouldn’t object too seriously to putting O Sagat at around the same difficulty as Guile.

DeeJay’s probably his worst matchup. The maxout is really hard to get over because it’s so wide, comes out so fast, and can be made either really slow or really fast, and when you do get past it DeeJay has a hundred attacks that all seem pretty much tailor made to beat Honda’s jump-ins and buttslams.


I haven’t really had much O.Sagat matchup experience. Every time I find a guy who plays him I usually beat him pretty good, but seeing pro O.Sagat usage from Evo makes me realize that when used right Honda is definitely at a disadvantage.

I’ve also been told that when used right, DJ’s Maxout->Slide is pretty much unbeatable if timed right. I’ve never played against someone who could do it to me without fail (and once I get in, it is usually over), but I know it’s easy to people who play the match a lot.


Is there any way to reliably ochio out of balrog throw traps?


I been playing honda recently, and i like him a lot, he can do pretty well against almost the full cast, o.ken and ryu players who can do srk on reaction are my nightmares :sad:

And for the boxer loop throw, u can do the ochio motion with fierce~strong, if u fail the ochio, u’ll get the bear huge, i think this throw have more range than ochio, and the same than boxer throw (im not sure about this, if someone can correct it…) I do this and almost never fails to me :lovin:


Do stored negative edge command grab to get out of that, it should work every time. So press jab-strong-fierce and half circle back before you get up, hold the stick at down-back, and let go of fierce-strong-jab as you get up. If it doesn’t work because he’s doing a tick from too far away, just drum the punch buttons again.


What are viable things to do to counter Claw’s wakeup wall dive shenanigans, where he times a wall dive that may or may not crossup just as I get to my feet from a knockdown?

The usual anti-air jab headbutt doesn’t work very well since I lose my charge as soon as Claw crosses to the other side. It almost seems the safest way to act is to just guess a direction and block high, but half the time I just get knocked down and Claw does another wall dive…


Block or buttslam, depending on the situation. Buttslam will usually get you away from Claw and basically set both of you back to neutral positions, but in some situations, depending on where you are on screen and how Claw controls his dive, he can actually punish you at the end of your buttslam with slide and then start a new dive. Try to identify those situations and just block them.


Buttslam indeed works like a charm, thanks for the tip :slight_smile:


Any tips for turtle Guiles who are also incredibly patient and can reversal nearly all the time? It’s like fighting a spiked wall that throws fireballs at you.


Guile can be pretty annoying. You wanna limit jumping over booms to attack him to a minimum, because you’re probably gonna get flash kicked and maybe crouching fierced. The only time that’s a reasonable thing to do is if you’re standing at about the range of your jumping forward or roundhouse and you have great reactions and jump over a boom as soon as it comes out, but that’s pretty rare. Jumping is also ok if see the Guile player standing… also rare.

Better ways to get around booms depend on where you are on screen, but usually you want controllable neutral jumping fierce or neutral jumping kick or just bulldogging (walking up and blocking booms on reaction, then walking forward again), but toward jumping forward/roundhouse/short and forward buttslam are fine in some situations too. Make sure that if you’re going to jump over a boom that you recognize what speed it is first, and if in doubt just block. You can follow up a jump over a boom with strong/fierce slaps, bulldogging, buttslam, headbutt, jumping toward forward/roundhouse, or toward standing roundhouse sweep.

A great spot for you to try to stand is at like standing sweep range. Here you can sweep Guile with toward standing roundhouse, chip him strong/fierce slaps, beat out crouching forward with your crouching forward/strong/roundhouse, or do walk up fierce grab or ochio.

One thing to note is that if you do fierce grab on Guile midscreen, you can hold jumping toward and do down+fierce for the splash, and it’ll usually cross him up and always be a safe jump. The only problem is that since it usually but randomly crosses up, you can’t be sure which way to block if Guile does a reversal flash kick/super. Generally just block like you’re gonna cross up. It’s stupid for Guile to try reversal most of the time because most of the time you’ll safe jump, so he’ll probably just block expecting a cross up. Once you’re there, you can do all sorts of things, like crouching jab to fierce grab or ochio, crouching short to whatever-strength buttslam, strong slaps, crouching roundhouse, whatever. You can also mix this up by just doing toward jumping forward after the fierce grab, which will never be a crossup.


I love to use both. O.Honda has a nasty 3 hit combo + HHS block damage that is too easy to land (crossup belly flop->cr.LP->LP HHS). Takes a ton of damage plus you are essentially charged for ether sumo smash or headbutt at the end of it. If you nail them with a headbutt after the combo (like if they try to jump away) it is dizzy time and pretty much GGPO.

Yeah. I almost never have a problem with Guile because most people play him the same. It is just that rare player that has perfect zoning + patience and reversal skill that just seems nearly impossible to crack with a character lacking a fireball.

The person who pretty much made me ask this question was wolf1 (I think that was his name). He said your Honda actually busts his Guile up, which is pretty damned impressive. Wish there was a video or two of those matches.


Disclaimer: I am not an expert, feel free to question this advice.

I’ve found that a very useful thing to remember against Guile is that he cannot use his flash kick for a short time after throwing a sonic boom, so you’ve got a short window of time where it’s relatively safe to jump over that boom or buttslam him. On the other hand, be extremely careful if he doesn’t throw a boom for a short while as that probably means he’s preparing for a flash kick.

The towards+roundhouse far sweep is also pretty useful to punish his pokes as it outranges his normals and can trade with booms in your advantage.

Bulldogging is often very difficult against him because of his incredible recovery after booms, a good Guile will throw you enough booms to push you back from blocking the booms so you won’t actually advance anywhere. Some Hondas like jumping straight up with the controllable FP but once again that doesn’t let you go anywhere and mistiming the jumps is dangerous. Against a good Guile, your only real option from a far distance is to just jump over booms or SK/MK buttslam through them instead. HK buttslam is pretty dangerous to use to advance, though, since it’s fairly easy to counter. I try to only use the HK buttslam if I’m sure it’ll actually hit Guile, and never use it just to advance. In any case, where you want to get is just out of range of his sweeps, from there you can punish whatever he does.

But Honda vs Turtle Guile still remains a lot of guesswork and mind games for me. I often do buttslam+HHS or far sweep if I guess he’s going to boom. Far sweeps are also useful against pokes, and sometimes Guile gets twitchy enough with them that he’ll try to psychic Flash Kick them, which often fails and nets you a free hit. If he gets afraid to throw booms (i.e. he’s storing his Flash Kick and waiting for you to jump) I’ll just MP HHS him for tick damage, since it’s impossible for him to Flash Kick you on reaction. If you’re at the right distance, even if he does throw a boom the MP HHS will often trade anyway, and most pokes will be cleanly stuffed. Learn to recognize that distance and be ready to HHS him for free tick (or counter!) damage.

Technically you could also try a walk-up grab, but most Guiles will poke too much for that to be viable and you’ll usually be a bit too far for it to be much of a surprise.

But all these depend on your ability to predict your opponent. The scariest Guiles are those who can reversal Flash Kick only after they see you start a move to tick-damage them, like a buttslam+HHS. Perhaps the safest thing to do after you score a knockdown is to get close to him and try a negative-edge Oochio - if he tries a reversal Flash Kick you’ll just block him, if he tries to block or poke you’ll get the throw. It’s often hard to get into range fast enough, and it’s still pretty dangerous if he decides to go for the counter-throw, but you can train him to not do that by doing meaty far sweeps instead, once in a while.

A crazy thing I like to do in combination with that is to use a buttslam to get close to him as he gets up, but purposefully do it early so I either land before he gets up, or it counts as a safe jump and I’m safe from reversal Flash Kicks anyway. And then do the negative edge Oochio stuff. Bonus points if it crosses up! You have to do it really early though. Often Guile will try to reversal Flash Kick it since the move is so obvious, but since you’re already landed and blocking you’ll get the advantage. Then maybe mix it up by sometimes actually hitting him with the buttslam+HHS for some sweet tick damage so he never knows whether to reversal flash kick or not - that’s much more dangerous to do against reversal fiends but it does increase your psychological “fear factor”.

Overall, though, the only “safe” thing you can do is use that small safe window after a boom to jump-in FP or buttslam and do some tick damage - and that depends a lot on your reflexes… Generally I try more to win the psychological war against Guile because he can technically psychic Flash Kick me anytime else than after a missed boom if he’s calm enough, so I want to do everything I can to upset him and make him lose his concentration. Where Guile thrives on regularness and predictability, you prefer chaos to happen and screw his well-timed patterns. So don’t be afraid to take gambles and try to guess his moves because overall you’ll generally get more out of correct guesses than Guile will out of your mispredictions. Honda vs Turtle Guile must really get into Guile’s mind to win the match, both to predict his actions and to instill paralysing fear.