Different. I’ll give that a try. Don’t know how I played Honda before ST. CPS1 Honda sucks so much in comparison. No headbutt or sumo smash knockdown. All he (HF Honda) has is that HK Sumo Smash that hits on the way up… which is nice but no where near as important as HHS that move forward and ochio.
I like Super Honda aka O.Honda. He’s just a very different animal, especially with his lack of floaty fierce. You need ridiculous reactions to be able to reliably nj.mk over fireballs.
It’s not so much that CPS-1 Honda sucks, it’s more like everyone else is better. You think fighting fireball characters in ST is bad, try doing that shit against WW Guile, CE Ryu/Dhalsim/Sagat, or HF (anyone with fireball).
I get ya. I cut my teeth on HF and played O.Honda a little when I first started playing ST on GGPO in preparation for HDR.
Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.
I think they are, just because they have more varied move sets to play with. But you can’t underestimate the stupidity of jab jab jab jab jab jab jab stun and restun combos. You get caught once and it’s round over, and it takes zero skill to pull off.
I’ve seen that before, but the WW Guile jab re-dizzy is a lot harder to set up than it sounds.
Have you had any luck figuring this out with consistency? I know SOME of it might just be hitbox-related with certain characters, for example the crossup seems to always whiff on Ryu. But for characters I can cross-up with d+mk following a fierce grab, I still cannot be 100% sure they will actually get crossed up. Sometimes you land in the front anyway. That isn’t a horrible thing, but if I KNOW I’m going to land in the front, would prefer to use j.HK.
It has to do with when they pop out.
Didn’t even consider that, thanks!
Wait, WW Guile’s Stun/Restun combo is jab jab jab jab jab jab jab jab? HOLY SHIT, I gotta crack out Anniversary edition and pull that shit!
I believe several other WW characters also have a re-dizzy. I know Chun can do it with her standard jump-in, st.str, cr.RH, and shotos often do it with jumping RH, st.fierce xx hadouken.
I suppose Honda has one too.
In a game where you can cps-1 chain any normal into another, pretty much everyone has a redizzy combo. I think HF is the only one with a little more restrictions, so it makes harder for the rest of the case (unless you’re Dictator)
Pretty sure HF bison lost all his combo goodies from CE. HF Bison is easily the worst version of his character.
Whoops. Got the game mixed up. I meant CE Dictator. Everyone had a dizzy and re-dizzy in WW, but since that sort of stuff got toned down in general, it highlights Dictator’s strength in that he can do it off of a scissor kick on hit OR on block.
I noticed, that some japanese players tend to go for normal tick throws instead of ticks into ochio? Any particular reason for it?
Fierce and Roundhouse holds (bear hug and knees) can be followed by safe jumps and baits, so they often allow you to glue onto the enemy and land more damage over time. This is specially true midscreen, where oichio allows the player to escape. Shogatsu is knows for his nasty throw loops and mix-ups, for example.
To be fair though, O.Honda ONLY has tick throw setups with no ochio
You can also do ambiguous and delayed crossups after a fierce grab. It’s quite good for repeat damage setups, and if need be, you can always end it with an ochio.
Honda’s pressure after grabs is so great it always seems more worth it to me to grab first, unless you are worried about getting thrown yourself - Honda’s normal throw range is better than a lot of characters, though. Every character can be pressured in some fashion after a fierce grab (some easier than others), so you could always tick into ochio or bait a reversal after already doing the fierce grab damage.
His normal strong throw is also integral for tossing opponents into the corner and maintaining pressure.
The only issue is that Honda’s walk speed is so bad, it tends to downplay how good his throw range is. It’s similar in the way that Chun and Vega have decent and bad throw ranges respectively, but their walk speed tends to make up for that weakness.
So it’s also an element of knowing the mind games around the throw. How to bait out certain attacks, whiff punish it, preemptively throw out a sweep, how to train your opponent to block in order to open them up for that throw, etc… The metagame around this stuff is pretty complex beyond just examining throw ranges.
Like others have mentioned, Honda has amazing options off his HP/HK throws. If the Honda player catches Vega, Balrog, Guile, or Deejay (super non-withstanding for the last three) near midscreen with ether throw the round is likely over. Those throws will also give Chun, Bison, and Dhalsim a really tough time too.