Gouken, T hawk, Dan, el furete, Hakan( with no oil) Dhalsim, and Vega. I feel in USF4 these character really need attention along with everyone else of course. I feel everyone else is mid or high when it comes to overall viable status. Remember this is my opinion and im not forcing it upon anyone. I was just sitting down and thinking. Capcom said they wanted to close in the gap between characters and I feel the ones I listed need to most attention. What do you guys think? I would like to keep this a clean open minded discussion please.
What I think is that you never played a decent Vega in your life.
Actually I have played plenty of vega players and I still stand by what I say. His ground game is solid and his pokes are very strong and his kara grab is good also. He has no good anti air, no does he have a good invincible reversal. Scarlet only has throw invincibility and ex scarlet has projectile and throw to the 4th frame. vega has very limited options dealing with rushdown and in a game with vortexes and unblockables I know he struggles. My name on xbox live is QLJ86 I have 4010 PP and 13000+ with gouken and I have palyed my fair share of good vegas.
Vega needs some help, no doubt, but he doesn’t belong with the bottom feeders you listed. Listing drykan doesn’t do anything since oilkan makes Hakan as a whole not bottom tier. I think Elf is pretty bad and Gouken too, but if we are talking absolute horrible characters to use in a tournament; Dan, T Hawk, and Sim are in a league of their own. They are the low tier ones. Elf, Gouken, Oni, Chun and some others are low mid tier IMO. Vega is probably right in the middle of the pack…mid mid tier.
Hakan should be considered as a whole, not oil and no oil. His gameplay is about getting oiled up, that’s the whole point.
You guys are forgetting DeeJay… He’s really bad, if you know what to do against him. Can’t zone well, supbpar rushdown (lol vortex), his normals are ass, his focus attack sucks and his dashes are among the worst in the game and his wakeup is free to low meaty pressure. The only thing he’s got going for him is that he can’t be vortexed by Akuma and Cammy like the rest of the cast, so people unfamiliar with the matchups will bitch and cry. Other than that, he’s pretty much worse than everyone save Dan and THawk.
He is so underused and irrelevant I literally forget he’s in the game half the time, it’s that bad.
DeeJay needs help no doubt. But his focus,zoning and “lol vortex” are not that terrible. Also he got some normals going for him (st.mk, c.rh, st.lk). His main issue is slow crouching jabs/shorts, difficult to use ultras, no dedicated AA normal without charge, horrible reversal game and trouble against characters who can easily punish lk sobat kicks.
There is no character called Hakan(no oil) in this game, only Hakan. Screw this, I say Hakan is top 10.
Actually, his focus is just THAT bad, since when you take focus in account, you have to take the dashes in account as well. And those are piss poor.
Also, his zoning is not good when you know how to get around it. He doesn’t have a good anti-air normal that work most of the time, just situational ones that get stuffed or deal so little damage is really doesn’t deter from jumping on him, since the reward of landing a jumpin combo is way greater than the risk of eating a st. mp…
I enjoy eating nectarines in the garden
This has just about as much relevancy to anything as your online warrior statistics
Speed, range and hitbox should determine focus attacks, not dashes. That’s my view anyway. How good he can zone is entirely depending on the matchup. His air to airs are beasts and can be used as anti air in certain situations. Regardless, deejay is bottom 10 and needs help.
The fact that Infiltration uses Gouken and Hakan as counterpicks discredits your statement.
Saying Hakan without oil is bad is like saying Guile without a fireball is bad.
You think E.Ryu, Oni, Dudley, Blanka, and Guy are better than Gouken? You haven’t played a good Gouken then.
You might want to look at the tier list and matchup data before you make opinions about balance. This is SRK, not Capcom Unity.
You should maybe try to compare Hakan with a heavy zoning character for example, who relies mostly on a keepaway game like Dhalsim or Sagat normally would do. Normally, as long as these zoning characters are able to keep the opponents away, then they will be at advantage, but once the opponents get in, they have a hard time. Hakan has normally the aim, to keep the oil, through getting hard knockdowns, he gets the possibilites to oil up. If the opponent manages to keep Hakan from getting the oil, Hakan is in disadvantage, if not Hakan controls the match. Keep in mind, some players can also try to use their characters different than their intended way, like getting in unoiled or a playing a rushdown Sim.
Or, as a less extreme example, Valle. RTSD baby XD
I agree. hakan should be counted as one character and im sorry for doing that. As for vega I may be underestimating his abilities and focusing too much on his flaws but there is a reason you rarely see this character in top 8 at tournys. he struggles and needs help .
I actually think deejay is a pretty solid character. I feel his damage is lacking. he has asoft vortex but as least he has one. he can combo super to ultra for damage or chip. His jack knife is 4 frames so its hard to safe jump him. His ex jack knife is easy to auto correct. I dont play the character so I know I wont know everything about him but I know capcom should be able to fix him due to his solid character design.
So its impossible to learn or become a better player and learn match ups online. I really don’t have time for that online warrior hate crap. Your comment was really not needed Contribute to the discussion or don’t post at all.
First off, I play gouken and I have been playing him since 2009 vanilla days. I know his struggles in and out I have been with him through all of his changes. I agree with you on the hakan situation. I should NOT have ever seperated oiled hakan from regular hakan you got me there. Infiltration only uses gouken in very certain match ups like guile and zangief. infiltration would not be able to win evo or any other big name major with gouken because goukens overall matchups are bad. He would get riped apart eventually hes smart and only uses him when he should. Infiltrations smart and I respect that. Like how he only uses hakan on balrog because of the match up. So no the fact that infiltration counterpicks with them only does not discredit my statement. Actually I do feel that evil ryu, oni, guy, and dudley have better character designs then gouken and are easier to fix in terms of overall being viable at high levels.
Overall I feel gouken’s character design is flaws although he is my favorite character. Its like he does not belong in this game. Kongo should not take gray damage and should not be armor broken. He can’t hit confirm from jabs like most of the cast can. Hes still my favorite character in the game but im not sure how capcom can can make him more viable.
actually it means a lot. Whoever reached 4k pp+ with normal play (no boosting or other cheating) know what they are talking about. The most players with 4kpp I played where very good, they defently know the game and its mechanics, option selects, meaty normal/throw mixups, frame traps, they know the mechanics, and they ofc. know the matchups.
I rather trust the opinion of a 4kpp online warrior, then some arcade offline scrub, posting in a joystick thread “this joystick is good, I can do srk motions without mistakes”. Most times the offline players are the biggest scrubs ever, due to their small group of players with no adaption and no new stuff.
I concur! Yes playing online has its faults at times but I have learned ALOT playing online. The fact that I have access to a multitude of players with a multitude of play styles helps with my overall adaption as opposed to playing the same people offline. Players like wolfkrone snake eyes ( I play him all the time) and other top players play online. You just got to know how to adjust your timing for on and offline play. Like how every player at evo who plays on xbox had to adjust their timing for ps3’s 2 frame lag for Street fighter 4. You do what you got to do.
Hakan is amazing i have played a really really strong Hakan player a number of times and he is def not low tier.
Thats actually a great way to look at things and I have already recognized my mistake of separating oiled hakan from un oiled hakan. It was stupid and the character should be counted as a whole. I do feel that unoiled hakan could use some buffs while further more balancing oiled hakan for a better overall character.