I have recently adopted a keep-away team that goes Ammy/Arthur/Haggar. The goal is to wear down the team with Ammy and then use XF2 Gold Arthur plus Lariat to chip for the win. However, a lot of people online consider this outright spamming and I get a LOT (more in the past two days since I’ve started playing the game) of ragemail and BM, even though I set aside most of my resources for that set-up. This has me wondering: How and where can you draw the line between keep-away and spamming?
well good zoning requires you to make good decisions about your projectile usage such that you counter whatever movements the opponent ends up making. Spamming is typically just filling the screen with stuff without really having to think or make decisions about what you’re doing.
That said, a lot of legitimate keepaway/zoning gets miscategorized as spamming by scrubs that don’t know better.
Keepaway is keeping someone away.
Spamming is using a move over and over again.
If they are keptaway by spamming, it deserves to be called keepaway, not spamming.
If someone is getting mad at you for using Arthur of all characters, just ignore it. They have 0 idea as to what they’re talking about.
Same thing when people get mad at me for zoning with Hawkeye, either they are retarded or just don’t realize that Hawkeye is a zoning based character; his combos and close range game aren’t that great.
Also, Hagger on anchor? To be honest with you, I’d be embarrassed if I even lost to that team; I would never send ragemail to cover up my own shortcomings. In-fact, if you had a really good Arthur or Haggar I would probably send you a nice little compliment.
Repeatedly using s.H with Ammy or mashing pipes with Haggar is considered spamming. Using Arthur’s projectiles to keep someone out isn’t.
Ignore the salty kids who are just angry that their Vergil derp tactics couldn’t beat your team. Keep on rockin’ that Ammy/Arthur/Haggar, zoning is a legitimate part of this game and some characters are intended to do it by design.
Yeah a HULK player beat me and raged at ME for spamming. Talk about a double standard…
I think Hulk players are probably the worst at ragemailing. I think they seriously expect you to throw slow, single-hitting moves directly in their face. Then again, I did have a Ryu player ragequit when his point Ryu was reduced to 50% health by Ammy. AND HE STILL HAD SPENCER AND VERGIL LEFT!:xeye:
People online for this game are funny sometimes.
Hulk players expect you to walk right up to them and get hit by their s.H, if you’re zoning, walking away, etc you’re considered to be a “cheap run-away bitch”. Somehow you not wanting to lose makes you a bitch.
Such an infallible tactic, dat s.H.
I’ve always considered keep away the Judo style of fighting games. It’s less of trying to make something happen, and more anticipating movements and appropriately countering the opponent’s options.
I, for example, use Deadpool. At the start, I will often do a couple j. m happy trigs. If they are full screen away and they try to normal jump, I’ll do a standing m happy trigs, and when they land I’ll go for H happy trigs. Now, I have no reason to go for H Happy trigs–they have yet to super jump on me. In fact, if they would stop and think that I’m trying to guess what their movement is going to be (which is required with most zoning characters–because their vitality is usually atrocious), they would simply wave dash during my recovery and force me to use hyper or eat the damage.
That’s the big difference between spamming and keep away. Spamming is definitely a more “this move rocks and beats just about everything so I better use it” (looking at you Akuma and online Hulk) versus: “I’m going to strategically and thoughtfully maneuver and put shit on the screen that will put me at an advantage…assuming I guessed correctly.”
Who cares if it’s spamming or not? If it works, keep doing it.
This mentality explains why you think marvel online with 2 bars can be playable when most people say 4-5 bars is unplayable.
Do I need to link the video again?
Ironically, I was surfing capcomunity the other day looking @ shit and I saw jedilink on there. Go figure that the person who says umvc3 is god like online also is from capcomunity. It all makes sense now.
I think great keep away has 2 standards. 1st, you need to never let them get close to you. The more aggrivating it is to dodge the keep away to actually get close indicates the strength of the keep away. 2nd, unlike mvc2, there are no 100% traps in umvc3. There is ALWAYS a break in keep away strategies. These breaks due to way the game is basically gives your opponent probability to sneak in. The other major part about keep away is that once you actually get rushed, how likely is it you can go back to keeping away again?
if your character can keep away for so long they have the hardest time getting in AND if they manage to sneak in and you can get away to go back to keep away consistently, then I’d say its a very strong keep away.
regardless of the state of online marvel 3, the mentality applies to offline as well. if i’m throwing out projectiles and my opponent has no response whatsoever, there is no motivation for me to stop doing the move. play to win.
Learn to read.
It really doesn’t at the highest level. Do you think good players wait to be countered before they stop doing something? They can’t afford to be countered, especially when it matters. In the highest level play especially, it’s all about anticipating that the opponent probably will adapt on the next attempt you do something, and thus thinking ahead to that point rather than actually waiting to be countered before you do something different.
This is how keep-away/zoning (yes I know they aren’t necessarily the same) should be. you should actually anticipate that the opponent will catch on and think ahead to your next action that will counter their adaptation. But you shouldn’t actually be waiting for someone to catch on before you change it up.
My Nemesis plays a strong keepaway game with his rocket launcher and tentacles backed up by Jam Session and drones every now and then. Once the opponent tries to get in they get hit with his s. H, l. H ( a great weapon vs haggar’s pipe ) which have armor and then I finish them off with Nem+Sent DHC. It is highly effective keepaway but you do have to always look at your opponents position on the screen, how many bars they have in case they want to punish your assist and what char they are using.
In other words, good keepaway requires great reads and is effective.
Spamming requires button mashing and will often get you bodied.
In that case, Arthur/Haggar is legit. You get Lariat’d when you finally aproach Arthur. He then jumps back and continues firing/throwing. Also, Ammy becomes derp with daggers and lariat. If I get hit, I screwed up pretty badly or got baited. Thanks.
congratulations, you missed the entire fucking point of my post. maybe it would help if i wrote it in japanese for you?
No I didn’t, you don’t understand the deeper mental game within fighters it seems.
um, yes i do. you can try to anticipate your opponent all you want, if they sit full screen away while you pelt them with Morridoom, you have absolutely no reason to stop doing what you’re doing. in spite of how deep you like to believe you think, until your opponent shows some sort of sign of figuring it out, you would be a fool to change up your gameplan.
you’re not taking into account how good players abuse counters.
really good players will actually let you do something stupid over and over if it means they can kill you for it in a good spot. So there will be times where you will actually get away with it when they want you to so you can build a bad habit they can punish you later for. If you constantly counter something, eventually the opponent learns what you’re doing. What you can do is keep tabs of what can be countered, then @ the right time go for the counter when it will yield the biggest reward.
what I do is abuse layers that always allow me a way out. What this does is if my opponent is keeping tabs on my layers and is looking for a good spot to counter, I can always have extended options to what I’m doing to make it safe. With morrigan, its being in flight mode so you unfly in 1f but not every character can do that. You have to find unique ways that pertain to your character.