How come Team Air Combos aren't used more often?


#1

This is one thing that really jumps out at me when watching streams… team air combos (air tags/exchanges, whatever) are almost never used. Yet when I play online and offline against my friends, I see TACs used against me left and right. I know, it seems like the obvious answer to my question is that it’s “better” not to use a TAC and just finish up your combo with the one character you have right now, because that’s what the vast majority of top players do. But there seems to be much more to it: is the risk of potentially dropping the combo from the opponent really outweigh the reward of potentially building a massive amount of meter, partially resetting damage and hitstun, and safely swapping out characters?

I’d like to know what you guys think, because currently my team is Ammy/MODOK/Sentinel and I’m currently practicing MODOK’s air cube combos that he can only really do when he gets tagged in from a TAC.


#2

TACs seem like they’d be a boon for Phoenix teams at the very least. Potentially getting a whole meter for free? Yes please.

Personally, I use them all the time, mainly because I have no idea how to really play this game.


#3

I’ll answer using my team as an Example. Taskmaster Haggar Chris with Haggar on point.

I’ve openned up my opponent. and have engaged in a combo with Haggar that will undoubtedly do at least 500k+

lets say L M xx dp+ L (neutral jump) M M H down+H (land) walk forward M S (forward jump) M H S land DP+ Haggar Press DHC into Taskmaster Legion Arrows, I end in a favorable position for completely easy and risk-free execution

now, SURE I could TAC Tasky in somewhere during the second air string and finish with S then jump forward Aim Master H xx Legion Arrows M+H but there’s that chance that the opponent will correctly guess and break my TAC pushing Haggar away to the end of the screen where the situation is neutral at best for Haggar.

not only that but TAC-ing too much can potentially mess up your Team order messing with DHC Synergy.

Most players likely wish to do guaranteed damage instead of taking a (perceived as) unnecessary risk on a TAC


#4

#5

I think it depends on your team, your style of play and the situation. You can do a Wolverine bnb combo, TAC into storm air combo, OTG wind hyper, DHC berseker charge, wolverine bnb to kill any character in the game so long as the TAC doesn’t get countered.

But really, if the reward ensures that a character will die from it’s benefits, then to me, I think it’s worth it (nothing is more important than taking out a character when given the opportunity). If your strategy is to gain meter (especially for Morrigan or Phoenix, or whether you’re going against a Phoenix player) it’s a viable option with the risk of being put in a neutral reset of the battle. But if you’ve got someone on your team like Taskmaster, then you’re better off to just pull off one of his super long bnbs that builds like 2 levels (meaning there’s no real loss to using meter for a hyper combo at the end. And since you’re taskmaster, you know it’s gonna hurt your opponent.)

Also, I will agree with Densuo. Some teams are really dependent on their original order, or it might play in your favor if you team can function just as well in a different order. (It’s very important to get used to this because you don’t wanna find yourself dropping a combo for pressing the wrong assist button.) It’s not just DHC synergy, but assist synergy and sometimes Crossover Combination Hyper Combo synergy as well.


#6

I always thought this was the reason, the concept of team building would gradually mean that all characters despite the rotation can DHC in any order


#7

yeah, its because of guaranteed damage versus “not guaranteed” damage… basically the top tier, and most characters all do enough damage to one touch most characters if they just do:

longest ground starter>longest aerial finisher>air hyper combo or otg hyper combo> dhc x2

so basically 3 meters to kill damn near any character if your lead in bnb is strong enough, ie 450 to 500k or higher.

with numbers like that and dhc trick running around, theres little reason for most teams being made to fish around with tac stuff.

the 1 character that seems almost designed for tac is chun, because chun has no way to finish her longest bnb’s with hyper combos, so tac into a character with an otg or an aerial super makes alot of sense. the other "character it works well with is phoenix teams… because phoenix teams cant finish with hyper plus they need as much meter as possible. i dont know why more phoenix teams dont abuse tac… i certainly abuse it with chun.

but yeah, long story short, there are better ways to get damage and meter comes pretty freely in this game anyways so tac is mostly redundant with current metagame builds.

-dime


#8

So, if the DHC trick would be patched from the game, then we may see a change in the risk/reward ratio, and more players would choose to attemp an aerial team combo near the end of their combos.

I personaly want the DHC trick gone, but i know it is not going to happen (damn you capcom!)


#9

Because you get 25% (TAC up+S is useless as shit) so let’s say more reasonably 33% chance of having your combo countered, and even then you only build half a bar with a side combo (opponent will mash down +S ) AND can miss the side combo because timing is tight.

If you are an high risk high reward player, just play with it. It gives greats benefits overall.
Otherwise, just no.


#10

I used to abuse TAC’s for the first few days of playing online. Mainly because I kept going against people who didn’t know how to counter a) TAC’s and b) X-23’s speed. I remember destroying a few people with that combination. But once people started realising that they can counter TAC’s quite easily, and my team change resulting in droping X-23, I took a step back from them.

Although I still use them if I want to finish with Iron Man and OTG into Proton Cannon. I did notice that they aren’t used much but I figured it was because getting a combo that doesn’t give you the chance to counter is better than risking being countered. Why get fancy with TAC’s when you can go for the kill without having to worry about being countered?


#11

if you have your tac’s studied like your regular bnb’s it becomes 25% chance of breaking. up tac is good cuse it gives timings almost exctly like down tac. side tacs will ALWAYS pop out of the corner if the opponent was cornered though, which makes up tacs even stronger. all the tac options are good when using a team built around them, just there is little reason to base a team around tac when glitch and dhcx3 kill so well.

as it stands, if i connect a jab against agrounded character with chun, i can do 1 mil in damage and complete my combo having gained 1 meter if i down tac’d. if i up tac’d i use all the meter i built. if i side tac i get a less damaging followup, but it requires less meter so my meter still gained. this is right off the bat at the start of the round. tac certainly isnt useless. but as i said its redundant in current metagame.

its mostly seen from lower level players that cant get great bnb’s off consistently or online where harder bnbs dont work as well… its an easy extender and leads to no execution lmh dhc x 3 combos… its a low execution players dream., auto reset with huge meter gains.

-dime


#12

Just fyi, breaking f+S is the same as b+S.


#13

really? o wow, thanks for the heads up. ima check that out right now.

so FORWARD +S and BACK +S have the same break? i only checked down and up and those ARE different breaks. weird that side breaks would be the same input… i guess 25% was a little broken in capcoms minds. i agree. hmmm. weird having that random property.

-dime


#14

Actually if it wasn’t for the DHC glitch I would barely do TAC combos. Because of it I do them pretty much every other match I play. When I have Wesker on point who follows the glitch I’m usually half the time fishing for an up tag combo to switch into X23 and kill people. I have combos that will give me a whole bar even with up tag to start DHC glitch again. Not to mention that with X23 and Wesker sometimes I need a bit of extra damage at the end to one shot characters like Wesker or She Hulk if I mess up a certain portion of the combo. With a TAC at the end of the DHC back into X23 I can kill off Haggar also I think.

When the glitch goes away with the way my team is set up I’ll probably still resort to using it at times but for a different reason. Probably just use it to quickly build 3 meters for X23 so she can dirt nap early in the fight.


#15

probably because they want to build guaranteed meter/don’t want to bet countered during a TAC.


#16

Well it becomes really predictable at times. Certain TAC combos require you do go in a certain direction. Until more TAC specific combos utilize all four directions it won’t be safe against intuitive players. Just like certain resets, TAC combos are gimmicky. Also like resets, once you find a really safe, solid, and unpredictable one you’re golden.


#17

Thats the way I see it.

I usually don’t want to mess with my team order as well.

Throwing one in while your opponent is off guard isn’t a bad idea though.


#18

Meter and damage is plentiful when you play Taskmaster, no need to chance it with a TAC.

I still think TACs were awkwardly implemented.


#19

i think TACs are horribly design. especially the dumb guess game to prevent them from being done on you. imo, it should be like tvc when it cost a bar to do it. it would add more strategic element in safe tagging among other things.


#20

Agreed. Why is there an unnecessary guessing game that can result in an arbitrary meter gain AND arbitrary damage bonus? Not to mention the guessing game makes you far more susceptible to resets if you’re watching for TAC’s and you mash out a j.S when your opponent drops their combo. TvC TAC’s were perfect; a safe way to tag out and get a little extra damage, but you paid for that luxury.