How do I prevent getting beaten by cheese tactics?

Newbie Saikyo Dojo
#1

Basically I’m getting beaten by (what I consider) cheesy tactics. Example is I get knocked down, the opponent is constantly walking towards me as I’m getting up and the moment I get up, he does either a shoryuken or a grab. If I guess wrong, I get knocked down and the process happens again.

Another cheese is crouching jab, walkup throw. Basically when we’re close range, I always fall for crouching jab or two, then throw. Characters like Balrog get me all the time.

Another one is El Fuerte with this wake up shenanigans. I know that’s a whole different strat thing though.

Any tips on how to avoid these things? If I try to tech throw, my character throws out crouching short and I get countered by a shoryuken or something. Is there a ‘beat’ you have to hit with teching, or do you just mash lp+lk as fast as you can?

#2

They’re getting away with stuff like that because your defense is predictable. Mix it up. Besides blocking all the time, try a jump, backdash, reversal, focus attack, or even a walk up throw. (Read your opponent’s habits)

You also need learn to block and tech. If you’re playing online, time the tech so that it coincides with their blockstring. Offline you need to delay the tech slightly. Practice it in training mode. Good players will trap you if you do this all the time, so remember to vary you defense. Blocking and teching should always be your first option though.

#3

Backdash is invincible in the first ~1-8frames (character dependend)

Tick Throws don’t give you enough time to hit the enemy out of it (unless you have a invincible reversal)

backdash + crouch tech [media=youtube]aHHoGHcgK9k[/media]

Depends on the matchup, Backdash/Focus/Reversal.

If you want to throw go for a proper throw if you go for a Tech do it late.
you do it to early i guess since your mashing

wait for the timing he would start the throw then tech the tech window is 10frames
thats enough if you trained your self to expect a throw and are ready to tech.
no need to mash, just 1 input is enough.

Generally you should when getting hit not trying to mash shit up. just stay focused and be ready to tech.
If see you an opening of course go for it.

#4

You should read this:

http://shoryuken.com/f176/cheapness-221148/

#5

Part of the game is that you can’t just do one option over and over again. You must change your gameplan towards what the other player is doing. So what appears to be cheese, could be something highly crafted just to beat your game, and the moment we give you advice, VOILA they’re cheesily countering what you just did so it depends on you the player to adapt. Be careful what you call cheese.

Now if they only throw/shoryuken, the wisest option is to walk back/tech throw as late as you possibly can. If you still get hit, they’re intentionally DPING you to hit your tech throw, it’s a strategy, albeit an unsafe and annoying one.

#6

First off, those aren’t cheese tactics. Fuerte’s game is based on his wakeup rape, there’s nothing cheesy about it.

Jabbing, then throwing is called a tick throw, and it’s not only perfectly legitimate, it’s a very good tactic that good players use often.

Them throwing/shoryukening you on wakeup just means your defense is predictable. You have to mix it up, as well as read the other player and counter what he’s going to do.

You have to understand, YOU GOT KNOCKED DOWN. You SHOULD be in a bad position where it’s easy for them to get additional damage. Lots of new players don’t think so because this game made reversals so powerful. I wish everyone who played SF4 had to play guilty gear for a month first to understand just how bad getting knocked down is.

Anyway, quite a few of your problems can be solved with option select blocking. If you’re under attack, you can hold block and tap lp + lk the whole time you’re blocking. What this does is makes you block while being hit, but if they throw you, the lp + lk registers as a throw tech, and if there’s a gap in their blockstring, a lk will come out and hopefully stop their string. Don’t mash lp + lk, just tap it at a regular beat.

#7

This game isn’t starcraft, cheese/cheap in fighting games is more of a compliment defining superior strategy than anything.

#8

Heck, even in StarCraft, “cheesy” tactics like Photon Rushing, Baneling busts, etc. are considered legit.

#9

Switch to 3rd strike. You can parry/grab, which prevents them from doing stupid shit at the same timing every time.

#10

first thing you should do is stop calling them cheese tactics.

#11

Second thing you should do is realize that for every move, there IS an appropriate counter to the move.

For instance, if people are walking up and RANDOMLY shoryuken/throwing, You need to learn how to (1) Block (probably could solve 95% of the problems most people have), and (2) Throw Tech. You need to not respect people’s skill level; don’t underestimate the opponents ability to mash buttons, reversals, 360 grabs, spam jab/short/throw, etc. Most players online have no shame in the craptacular tactics they use in an effort to gain a numerical recognition on-screen, so you need to punish people like this for being so flowchart.

-Learn how to read tick-throw patterns (crouching tech stops ths guessing game)
-Use pokes to keep people from “walking up and throwing” you
-Seriously, JUST BLOCK

No tactic in this game is cheap. Thats just the excuse people give for not knowing the appropriate counter for it. Theres never anything wrong with throwing projectiles, unless of course you don’t know how to get around them, in which case, to you, they’d be totally “cheap”

#12

Truth.

#13

As a beginner, I don’t believe in cheap tatics or tier lists to tell you the truth. Just means you have to work harder

#14

I get beat by hondas doing nothing but butt splash

help

#15

Not really if they’re all-in strategies (i.e. both of the ones you mentioned, 6 pool, etc.) and are being used against any decent player who scouts, because said strategies are extremely easy to fend off for a half decent player, which is why you never see real pros use said strategies.

Something like an early reaper push vs. zerg just to keep them in check for a long period of time is very effective as it’s a harass and control strat, not an all in rush.

But I digress.

#16

^Which is why you never see all-ins in high level play, right? rolls eyes

I’ve seen multiple Brood War tournament games decided by a 9pool when the opponent decided to go 12cc or something similar. It’s about reading your opponent, because it you always sit on the same macro build, you’re going to get owned.

That’s why Jaedong is so dominant in a bo5 format, he’s one of the best in the world at reading how the opponent is going to open in the next game, and he capitalizes on it. You’re really limiting yourself if you never utilize all-ins.

#17

Tactics like the one you described are really easier said than done when you talk about beating them. Before I talk about beating the strat, the best thing you can do is to make that kind of 50/50 not worth it for them. I don’t know what character you play, but what is the most DAMAGING combo you can do whenever you block an uppercut? If your character doesn’t have strong combos without jumping, what are some of the most DEVIOUS wake-up games you can play off of your knockdown of choice? Punish them as hard as you can for guessing wrong – 140 dmg from a throw becomes less threatening if you can take off 350 dmg because they guessed wrong.

There are 2 ways you can be hit by uppercut in this situation: 1, you crouch tech early. 2, you crouch tech late.

You need to be able to tell the difference in-game.
-If you get hit for reason #1, then that means he is uppercutting you as soon as you wake up. If you late crouch tech, you will block the uppercut and still tech the throw. You will be able to punish the uppercut if you block.

–For Ryu, this is High Risk/Medium-Low Reward behavior. He risks taking a LOT of damage for the reward of mediocre damage + another knockdown.

-If you get hit for reason # 2, he is waiting for your late crouch tech before uppercutting. If you are doing early crouch tech, you will hit him for walking forward with a moderately damaging combo.

–For Ryu this is High-Risk/Medium-Low Reward. Same as above, this Ryu is doing high risk behavior. He is risking getting hit by reversal, by early crouch tech into combo for the same reward as above. He is risking less damage to himself, but he is opening up more ways to receive damage at the same time. This is what I would call a “scissors” strategy (Rock < Paper < Scissors) he is putting bets on you not doing anything stupid, and then punishing you for that.

There is 1 reason why you are thrown: You didn’t crouch tech. Sometimes, you just have to take the throw (like if Ryu corners you and he has meter and Ultra). You should at least be trying to visual throw cues, like their arm sticking out, in this situation.

#18

Also, try these same tactics on another opponent and see how they handle it.

#19

option select bro. it will solve alot of your problems. I used to get tick thrown all the time, i figured out a OS for it its not much of a issue now.

#20

Cheese tactics?

CRACK OUT THE WINE.