How do we deal with T.hawk's pathetic rushdown game?

t-hawk

#1

honestly it’s getting frustrating almost evreyone i’ve seen online likes to run away from t.hawk like he’s the devil and from what i can see t.hawk has no way to deal with it. His walk speed his abysmal tomahawk gets you no where and hawk dive gets you punsihed. CS seems like the only option but even that is so-so the distance is good but it’s to slow to catch the faster characters. I’ve seen people say get them in the corner which is good advice but there characters like vega, elf and such that can easily get out of the corner.

I’m really getting frustrated trying to pin these guys down but I’m having no luck so who knows what we can do to pin people down?


#2

I try and play Hawk like a Shoto (I always thought of him as Zangief with a DP) in these cases - zone them with TB and CD. That probably comes from a million years playing Ken. They can’t win if they don’t come to you. And, if and when you do get in, you have to got rip them apart. The biggest problem with them running away is it gives you plenty of time to build full meter…so then when you do get in…they are really gonna eat it. And always U2 against those guys.


#3

IMO you need the patience of a saint to play T Hawk and therefore need to take as much of 99 secs as is necessary. Rushdown and T Hawk are clearly not meant to go together. Of course people want to run away - it takes away your best tools. Condor Dive and Spire are where it is against none fireball characters - you need to treat them as command dashes. Whiff low Condor Dive from full screen and then use Condor Spire for more control from mid screen. T Hawk can close space quickly and safely in plenty of cases and has very sound tools to keep people cornered and the mix ups coming. In answer to your question about what tools - neutral jump mp, lp, hp are all good ways to zone and keep people in. LP and mp spire, s.hk and c.hp as well as thrust peak at the right range. You need to become the one who frustrates your opponent into doing something dumb, taking some life and then they need to come and play in your arena - close up! If you loose a life lead early then its always going to be tough. People will not run for 99 secs - play solid, play calm and keep coming. If none of that sounds like your cup of tea then play someone else because because Hawk is not about offing people in 20-30 seconds.


#4

To add to the final sentence…WHEN you get in, Hawk is perfectly capable of destryoing an opponent in less then 20 seconds.


#5

Approach slowly, slowly, take a few steps and block, make them feel uncomfortable with how close you’re getting as you back them into a corner, and use T. Hawk’s terrific poking normals, like cr.mk, cr.lp, cr.mp, st.mp, st.fierce and st.RH to bait out mistakes or to land counter hits. If they try to jump over you or jump onto you to land a blockstring/combo, use cr.FP or Tomahawk Buster if you can react quickly enough. Remember to use lp.SPD to start your mixup once you’re close enough as it has REALLY good range, but also don’t forget there may be entire rounds where you won’t land a single command grab. Your aim is to damage the opponent, not to land command throws, and you can achieve this quite comfortably without ever landing a Mexican Typhoon. A link combo like cl.st.lp, cl.st.mp, st.mp nets you roughly 200 damage against an opponent trying to jump away on wakeup, for example.

Basically, be patient. T. Hawk isn’t meant to be played like Zangief. He’s got, in my opinion, superior spacial control with his toolset. Back them into a corner, get them to panic, absorb some attacks along the way and build up that demolishing U1 (U2 sucks, don’t use it).


#6

You are so off-base with U2. That move DESTROYS jumpy chars and Shotos. If you corner them with a full super bar AND U2 wtf are they gonna do?


#7

Hey guys, lets not get into the U1 vs U2 argument again. We all know where that path leads.


#8

U2 is in many situations less consistent than any of T. Hawk’s other AA options. The risk is not worth the extra damage which, in any case, is not as impressive as the damage caused by U1.


#9

U2 is the exact same (as in when you have to activate / use it to anti air) as his DP with more damage. Stop saying it sucks because YOU whiff with it.


#10

If it’s less consistent than another option at a particular time, then don’t use it at that particular time. And there IS no risk if you know you’re going to land it.

Against some characters having Ultra 2 is enough to severely hamper their game. And I mean just HAVING Ultra 2. If you appear to be constantly buffering its motion (whether you really are or not, although you probably should be) it’s enough to make players think twice about jumping into the air. And against some characters (Vega, Akuma, and Ibuki come to mind), if they can’t take to the air as much as they’d like to then you already have one advantage you wouldn’t otherwise have.


#11

If U2 is a less capable anti-air than his other options, then you are giving them opportunity to escape because you wouldn’t be using it in those circumstances where they can safely avoid it. I’d rather them feel relatively safe about jumping and punish them every time with a normal or tomahawk AA than waste my ultra on a whiffed high damage AA. And don’t tell me it’s the same as Tomahawk either. It’s not. It’s hitbox is much lower.

And you’re forgetting that even buffering U2 removes from your capability to apply offensive pressure.


#12

How does buffering remove that ability? You dont constantly need to be doing a special move to apply pressure.


#13

It hinders your positioning, and your offensive ability by surrendering control of movement for several moments. It might pay off if you catch them, but the likelihood against a good player is that they won’t fall for it and you’ve just lost a good couple of seconds of movement.


#14

I Have to say U2 is nowhere near a game breaker as some might want you to believe
but people still want to believe it’s a rock solid move…

so yeah for the most part stick with U1 unless you have no other choice


#15

SO let me get this straight…the fact that when you have U2 they probably won’t be jumping at you AT ALL is not considered anti-air? I mean, I just want to be clear here. Do I wish it had more range and that it hit lower that is does, sure. But you can’t buffer a 720 when you bait SRK’s, but you can EASILY bait an SRK and smack them with U2.


#16

I would have to agree with gridman that U2 is basically a DP.

I think those that are knocking on U2 just don’t know how to set it up successfully.

The double half-circle motion takes more time then a dp motion which causes all the fuss. Could there be a short-cut here to help the motion?

it’s just another case of practicing it to get it’s full benefits.


#17

I agree with gridman, U2 is great. When you push people to the corner and you catch them with an SPD, they get worried. If they try to jump out, U2 on reaction. It also WRECKS some characters offensive games completely (although, I don’t know why you would go on the offensive against Hawk). Destroys Ibuki’s vortex for one.


#18

I prefer to just use his Super 'cause that shit gets things so on-topic.


#19

What he said, concerning T. Hawk’s rushdown. You have to be patient and take as little damage as you can from a zoner.

I personally never do cross-ups against guiles, ryus, or akumas if they have a good zoning game. Ryus have their jump hurrican to escape the corner which is so annoying. i give a Ryu more space after a knock down to see what he’ll do. guiles only trick is to jump over you after he knocks you down or throw you into the corner. akuma is very tricky if you play a run-away. i actually can’t say what’s worst, a run-away or a rush-down akuma.

Also, good trick is to fadc the fireballs. Just watch out for an ex-version on the next volley.

In an online game and you let them out of the corner, that most likely is GG. Guile’s ex-boom is so hard to react block online. It’s retarded.

For some non-zoners, you might want to be patient and let them come to you. I’ve actually been doing this against Dhalsim and M. Bison. Dhalsim’s fireball is so slow, it’s simply not a threat. Just jump neutral or jump backwards. Just don’t lose a life lead if you play this style. These games will most likely take all 99 seconds so again, patience is key. Cammy could be included here too but haven’t played against too many Cammys.


#20

I agree with this post. Good cammys are a nightmare, they have lots of safe options against hawk. Bad ones get typhooned repeatedly.

On the u1 v u2 thing, They are both good. That choice comes down to playstyle and matchup. If you are convinced that this is untrue we have a whole trainwreck of a thread just for arguing about it. Please dont bring it in here.