How do you all feel about tournament bye's?


#1

i cant say ive seen everything, and wont claim to, but for the most part, tournament byes are not a regular in the community to my knowledge, and i cant speak much on evo’s past before 09, because my memory is fail sauce, but i was thinking, well, i know some people got their bye from the gamestop tourney for sf4 at evo, and is that fair.

now on one hand i can see how promoters want to create some hype and memorable matches by giving some players byes from earlier performances at other majors, because the people watching the stream or are those who are going to buy a dvd who arent there want to see hype shit, and hell, even the people there want to see hype matches. well, not so much hype all the time, as much as matches between people they know. so thats cute and everything for the sponsors, or to cater to people a bit, but…

well then the other side of it is, especially with the upcoming evo seeing major numbers because of these new releases, there are gonna be huge pots on the line, and american gamers cant front, they like the competition, but to me, if i invest money in something, im trying to win the shit. so regardless of how someone did at another major, AND got payed out for winning that, why shouldnt they have to go through the trenches like everyone else. i mean, is everyone gonna have a hissy fit if wong doesnt make it out pools one year, and you dont see him in finals? me personally, and my opinion is bias because i been around the online fighting community for a minute,but id rather see some fresh new blood, rather then go out of the way to recycle the same blood on the big screen in the finals.

no this isnt all about evo, but i do use it as a major example because it will be seeing the most tourney entrants this year, but im sure the future will also hold larger tournies throughout the country with bigger payouts, where byes might come up. i dont think a tourney should be just about catering to people to the point where someone gets a bye past all these players, when major money is on the line. so im suppose to pay 20 or 10 to enter any tourney, and someone gets a bye because of some previous tourney win, or just because someone said so. so they get to chill in semis, while i drudge through countless good players, and have to deal with advanced players too. eh, thats kinda whack to me.

there should be no fear to see new blood in the finals. if stream viewers are lower, people are leaving early, and or not purchasing the released footage after because a few of their idols arent in the finals, then what does that say about them and what their future within fighting games will be. i want to see good matches period. i dont give a shit who you are. you can be a girl, guy, gay, straight, known, unknown, purple, blue, black, white, handicapped. i dont care, as long as i see good matches. no one here is famous, or to be looked up to. sorry, we’re all just gamers who most likely have better shit to be doing with our time then practicing combos, but we dont give a fuck, so we play. lol. i feel like everyone should always start at ground zero, and work their way up, because no one can go from ground zero to finals, and be a random scrub. fuck any, " you won this tourney, so free bye for you shit, or your from another country, so free bye for you shit".

maybe some tourney promoters can correct me where im wrong, but the whole shit rubs me in a bad way. when i pay my entry money, i want to know everyone is working there way through like everyone else, and the best of the best will make it. im not getting treating normal dudes who are good at mashing buttons as stars, who should be catered to. i mean, if its business, then its business. i understand how hard it is to run tournies, especially some of the majors that happen throughout the year. so if your trying to do something to help you break even, or get sponsors to provide games and tvs, then thats understandable. id rather a few byes because of basic financial reasons, then no tourney, but if byes arent necessary for your tourney, im against them all the time.


#2

I think there should only ever be one bye, and that’s if there is an odd number of players in a pool. Seeding top players is B.S. If they can’t make it through the ranks like everyone else then they don’t deserve to be top.


#3

depends on how many people enter and the size of the bracket that they’re running. Rarely if your running a 64 man bracket that exactly 64 people enter. Chances are someone is going to get byes and you really can’t help that. Well you can take that 64 man bracket and make it a 32 man bracket and tell 1-31 players to go home since not enough people entered the tournament to make it a 64 man bracket. but they won’t be happy about that and probably won’t go to another tournament that you run.

oh your talking about qualifier tournaments and they get seeded higher since they won or placed really well in that qualifier… well tough shit. AFAIK only 17 people were seeded for SF4 last year, those were the gamestop tournament winners that got to goto the grandfinals in sanfransico, and diago who won the exhibition. They already proved themselves eariler at legitament tournaments.

That said unless theres a SSF4 GS tournament I don’t believe that they’ll be any seeding this year, so be prepared for several brackets of death.


#4

yeah, i think my usage of the term bye might be wrong in some situations were i meant seeding , but of course if its suppose to be a 64 man tournament, and someone gets a free bye to make it work, im not against that. thats common sense. i was more about the free byes for being an international player, or just winning another tourney. as we all know, the gamestop stuff from last year was buns, because many top players didnt play, or get far due to having to have to play on that crap ass xbox 360 pad. plus daigo winning the exhibition should have had nothing to do with him getting that free bye. he won an exhibition tourney that he was flown out for, that had nothing to do with the gamestop tournament. lol. but thats living in the past, and i dont feel like arguing that shit.

to me there is no proving yourself with this. thats putting people on a pedestal for no reason in my eyes. treating players like some type of stars because they won a tourney, tournaments, and even now for just being who they are. im sure daigo would have gotten the free bye regardless, just to produce sf4 hype, because thats all that was about. im not trying to argue, as inevitably someone is gonna get heated in the chest once again, and start screaming, but its not like top players havent said before they dont want to be treated as idols, and have fans, and they dont treat others that way. plus we have all seen the, there needs to be less fans and more players posted all around srk, irc, streams, ect… so i think a good thing to do to keep that moving, not that again its not the norm, is that there should be no free byes for anything. you won said tourney, cool, register to this tourney, find your pool, and get out of it if you can.

my understanding is that the gamestop winners and daigo got a bye, but like when gootecks was mad salty at devastation was seeding. where you dont have too many top players in one bracket. my thing is, shit should just be done random. the cards will fall how they fall, like they did at devastation last year. no one gives a shit that you spent said money to come here and play to win the big pot, so did hundreds of other people. thats that whole princess shit that came to my attention in 09. im sure its not new, but all i can say is its the first time i can remember so much princess stuff going on, and im not blaiming anyone who got free byes, because they got it, and they took it, why would they argue. what did choi get a bye for for evo by the way. he didnt win any tournaments before evo that i know of. was that just another free bye for evo 09?

edit: im for random seeding. your not at the tourney to come in 5th anyways. if its all about the money, your here to get first. if you got a hell of a bracket, then so be it. isnt that what you train hours a day for? no one should think theyre entitled to a scrub bracket for any reason. i believe wong was asked about it during devastation, and he was like, fuck it, you just got to beat everyone, thats what you came here for. which is the truth.


#5

Tourneys where big names get byes straight to the finals = just what I always thought about tourney players: You’re just wasting your time and tossing away your money to Choi, Daigo, Valle, or who the fuck ever, and supposedly support the community. Looks more like you’re supporting the winners. They are set up to rule forever, due to no mental fatigue/stress. They get to relax and fuck you up after you’ve been through the wringer, ensuring their continued reign. And I’m betting that could happen no matter WHO was left to only compete one or 2 matches at the end. The tourneys are taxing mentally, and whoever has to play the least over the course of one, providing they are good to begin with, has an advantage, however slight, over someone who’s played a few tense matches, and will thus be prone to make more mistakes.


#6

Same. I’m of firm belief no matter how well known player you are, everyone entered in a tourney should work their way up the brackets normally.


#7

Everyone should go through the same thing, at the end of the day the top players are whover made their way up through the brackets no matter who they may be.

I personaly don’t see the point of being anti seeding though, I mean no matter what you should expect to face someone good if you progress anyway so who cares if you see him or her a little early due to seeding, you’ll still have to deal with them later even if seeding doesn’t happen.


#8

That’s understandable but I think what he’s getting at more is it shouldn’t have to matter when you deal with them and no one should get a free pass to the next round. From a hype/business standpoint seeding is good because the finals won’t be random guy vs top player, its almost guaranteed to be top player vs top player.

Obviously though if random scrub made it to the finals and some top player was there, he had to beat SOMEONE “good” to get there anyway, and if he can beat them then he must not be such a scrub. But just imagine how pissed everyone would have been if SF4 finals weren’t Daigo v Justin and instead was PR Rog v someone and HDR wasn’t Choi v whoever? No one’s gonna watch if they don’t know the names.


#9

If the bracket is uneven or not perfect numbers then go for it you really do need byes. I would never turn away someone (unless there was a cap) to make a bracket perfect. The more peeps the better.

As for getting a free pass it depends, if someone just showed and for no reason got a random bye to the next day or something then no. You didn’t do anything to get that spot you must play for it. BUT if you won a qualifyer then that is fine. After all it was a qualifyer for that tournament coming up. Everybody else has the same opportunity to play and try to qualify. You qualified for your spot it was not given to whoever, it was earned.

-DJ-


#10

how is it possible to get a three round bye…just saying…


#11

i used to be for random seeding back when I first started, but a properly seeded tournament is the better way to go. Its not about getting a scrub bracket to the top, it’s about preventing good players from knocking themselves out. It doesn’t make sense for one side of the bracket to be climbing Mt. Everest, while the other side is playing Candyland. Seeding ensures a logical progression. Random seeding on average would give you more instances of free ride to the top, seeding ensures that the top IS the top…If you’re unknown and you’re good, but they place you against Justin first round, you fight it out in losers, get top 5. Next tournament, you get seeded. People earn their seeds, they aren’t handed out for free. With SF4, you’re gonna have people bitching about seeds just because of how large and diversified the field is, its not going to be possible to get the 100% correct seeding. Still better to try than leaving it to chance.

Random seeding or not, best player will win. Doesn’t mean the actual tournament has to be shitty for everyone else.


#12

Last time I was in a tournament, I was literally the only bye, because their was a weird number of players. This, IMO, is the only acceptable way to have a bye. Just because someone was good once doesn’t mean they can’t mess up against a new player, or that something wont happen. Theirs too many things to happen to just say “no, this person would have won so he goes by”.


#13

byes don’t matter. all that matters is top 3 and in cases of big tournaments top 8/16.


#14

that was afrolegends, he’s been working his way up the ST tournament at evo for the last few years. so he wasn’t exactly some unknown when he won it last year. Thelo was though when he placed that high with his honda. Canadians correct me if I’m wrong on thelo placing well in evo in years before, then I’ll concede.


#15

I think there’s some confusion as to the difference between a bye and a seed.


#16

I didnt mean exactly last year, I know Afrolegends is really good. I meant more like someone like Megaman who used Honda and beat Justin at Devastation. That guy literally came out of nowhere. A situation like that happening, because he had to beat someone to be there in top 8 (top 4?)


#17

he’s well known on xbla. posts a lot on capcom-unity forums. Then again justin was never known for being a ST player. He just happens to play it reasonibly well since he has good basics and footies (also whores o.sagat lol).

but I felt proud for EA Megaman for getting that far. Though IIRC the finals still ended up consisting of Choi and Watson. He’s like what Afrolegends was like 5 years ago. Not saying that in 5 years he’ll win evo for whatever version of ST is being played that year, but between hin and Antonio from xbl, EA Megaman certainly has some parallels.


#18

I recall Gootecks complaining because he had a match against another cali player. Even if you believe you should get free wins, at least act modest on the stream dude!

Anyway, there is no wrong answer. Its a conflict between commercialism and the dignity of the tournament process. Personally, I prefer to have a fair bracket with less spectators/prizes. But I’m also a shitty player. Coincidence?